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Old Mar 05, 2005, 09:51 PM
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Mini-Review
Rafale by Aeronaut II

This is intended as a continuation of my previous thread on the Aeronaut Rafale,

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...=154235&pp=100

Some pictures I took at the field today ...


.
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Old Mar 05, 2005, 09:56 PM
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I was visiting Doug's field today so I recorded some new video, Doug did the flying this time. Here's an excerpt

Rafale hi res video (wmv, 2 mins, 20 MB)
Rafale lo res video (wmv, 2 mins, 6 MB)
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Old Mar 05, 2005, 10:12 PM
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At liftoff the Rafale was throttled back to 50% or less for the rest of the flight. She scoots around nicely on just 1100w.
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Old Mar 05, 2005, 10:35 PM
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Very nice Herb!
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 12:03 AM
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Shes got Legs!!!!!! Fantastic Job Herb!!

Set the second pic as my wallpaper, lovely with the mountians in the background
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 12:33 AM
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Herb are those retracts?
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 04:22 AM
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Impressive stuff Herb, VERy nice!

Thank's for this video

Cheers,
Appie
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 04:30 AM
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You guys listen to Herb, I don't know him, but he is a wealth of knowledge, and has some of the nicest jets here! ....and he likes BIG power!

Regards,

Justin

Concrusher thread....
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 08:23 AM
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Cool Herb
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 09:02 AM
EDF Jet Jam 2015 , May 28-31
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Has this been updated to the big single fan? If so give us details like RTF weight and motor/cells combo.
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Cox
Has this been updated to the big single fan? If so give us details like RTF weight and motor/cells combo.
It's the same twin Kev. It just went Jenny Craig with lipos.

Starting mine today.
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 09:42 AM
EDF Jet Jam 2015 , May 28-31
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LOL...
Thanks Gregg.
Great job Herb.
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 11:38 AM
EDF Jet Jam 2015, May 28-31st
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Great Video of the Rafale Herb. Gregg nice work on the formers or is that one of those laser cut Rafales
I know you'll be flying it soon.
Bob
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 01:50 PM
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Beautiful Herb. Just the right inspirational stuff to get me building again.
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 02:29 PM
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What are you going for Gregg single or twin?


Barry
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkamarm2000
What are you going for Gregg single or twin?


Barry
twin.
I got tired of waiting. The kit has been sitting for seven months waiting for the conversion to come out.
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 03:53 PM
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VERY NICE got to love ROG

so retracts fit in the twin then huh?
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 05:10 PM
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wow.
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 07:52 PM
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Are the inlets on this model scale?

I was wondering if the inlets on the Rafale were of scale size or if they were over sized to accomodate the fan unit? also could a more scale set of landing gear be used on the Rafale than is shown in the pics? The model is beautiful and from the video the flight performance is as good as it looks!

EngineerW
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 08:09 PM
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Herb:

Can you post pictures of your retract installation?? what retract equipment are you using?? My single fan conversion has been on order since last November, I'm also getting tired of waiting!!!

Thanks

Milton
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 08:31 PM
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What about a 750 or 730 for now? Not sure of comparison though, I just started putting my 750 Tango 08 together to see what it can do.


Barry
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 09:02 PM
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Barry:

I have a HW 730 and Tango 45-08 I could use, but will need the ducting and formers..
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Old Mar 06, 2005, 09:57 PM
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that should be easy enough to fab up I would imagine, I just dont know the specs of a running setup yet. I know Ralf is running an 08 on 11s on his own 5inch rotor for a load of around 65amps I think and 2500 watts or so. I was aiming for more like 8 or 9 s for around 1500 watts for a lighter setup in my 750. any idea of the load differnece in the 730?


Barry
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Old Mar 07, 2005, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkamarm2000
that should be easy enough to fab up I would imagine, I just dont know the specs of a running setup yet. I know Ralf is running an 08 on 11s on his own 5inch rotor for a load of around 65amps I think and 2500 watts or so. I was aiming for more like 8 or 9 s for around 1500 watts for a lighter setup in my 750. any idea of the load differnece in the 730?
Barry
Hi Barry,
I think the mentioned Ralf is me?
here's the measurements...
HW 750 : TANGO 45-08, 32 Volt, 68,20 A, 21167 U/min, 2182 Watt , 3856 gr. 37,827 N 57,50 m/sec. 49,83%

my 120mm wooden Fan: TANGO 45-08, 32 Volt, 49,60 A, 21861 U/min, 1587 Watt, 3310 gr. 32,471 N 55,30 m/sec. 56,57%
TANGO 45-08, 36 Volt, 61,80 A, 24386 U/min, 2225 Watt, 4151 gr. 40,721 N 61,93 m/sec. 56,68%
...and I'm running a 10s pack, at about 2000W...

@Herb: what a magnificient flying field!!!? Man, I wish I could fly there once! IMO you should build the Rafale as single! Should I inquire for you to get a conversion kit? The designer is a good friend of mine I've seen both versions, and I'd go for the 120mm version and a light LiPo setup...

cheers,
RD
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Old Mar 07, 2005, 05:04 PM
The blade numbers go up to 11
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Cool stuff, Herb! What a flying field! I can see the Blue Mountains from my field (if you know Sydney, then you'll know what I'm talking about) but they never get snowcaps.

Ralf, have you taken motor temps yet? Mike K told me not to push a Tango past 1800W short time/1500W continuous (or 150C for stator winding temp), so I'm curious how cool it runs in a fan (should be cooler than in a plane, I would think). Also, what esc do you use? He also mentioned that for max efficiency with the Tango you need to use a Jazz esc - apparently Schulze and Jeti are a few % less efficient with this motor, even with the higher switching freq. BTW, can anyone tell me the size of the airspace in between the rotor magnets and coils, and between the coils and rotating backiron? Sorry to go OT, Herb, but this is need-to-know-stuff for big edf'ers!

Stu.
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Old Mar 08, 2005, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexis_Ruiz
Herb: Can you post pictures of your retract installation?? what retract equipment are you using?? ... Thanks Milton
I am using Springairs 602's, with two steering servos and one more servo for the airvalve. I have an optional gyro installed on the nosegear steering.

I did a cast of the fuse bottom, made paper templates out of that, and then patiently cut out the ply formers on a scroll saw for a precise fit. These were later laminated with carbon tow. The fuse and intakes were reinforced in the right places with carbon as well.

The complete retract installation (retracts, wheels, linkages, servos etc) added 9.5 oz to the Rafale. RTF weight in the video is 102 oz (2.90 kg). Except for the takeoff, the rest of the flight is at half throttle (ca. 1100 Watts).


.
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Old Mar 08, 2005, 11:41 AM
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There's plenty of space for batteries and the large twin Hacker 70A opto controllers...


.
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Old Mar 08, 2005, 11:48 AM
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Old Mar 08, 2005, 12:06 PM
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Nice retro fit Herb. Does the body of the main gear retract rest just below the duct? I imagine it is a bit further out to Prado than you like!
Bob
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Old Mar 08, 2005, 12:28 PM
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Hello Bob,

the retract body goes into the duct just a tiny bit, protruding into the duct by about 3-4 mm. The degradation in performance is completely negligible, as you can barely see it when you look into the intake.

It took me about ten evening to actually do the whole retrofit. But I had been thinking about it for several months, just thinking about placement and proper retract mount anchoring etc.

Twin or single is irrelevant, basic physics tells you watts is the only thing that counts when you have good ducting . The single has an edge in ease of retract installation. I personally prefer the sound and performance of the twin.
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Old Mar 08, 2005, 01:57 PM
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Thanks foir the info Ralf, I just reread the Sabre post and saw 11s was your reserve. I'm still hoping for around 50 amps 1500 watts in mine on the stock rotor and 8s.


Barry
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Old Mar 21, 2005, 12:29 AM
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Sofiane,

Re your Mega ACn 22/20/3 motor questions, they will draw each about 43A on 14 GP 3300 cells in the Midifan and deliver around 600 Watts each. Or you can use smaller sized GP cells and loose weight - at the expense of duration.

That means that you either fly on two 14 cell packs (28 cells total), or you feed both fans with a single battery, in which case you will need one 16 cell GP 3300 pack and you'll be drawing ca. 80+ amps full throttle which is quite a bit.

Flying on a single pack can be done (I've had a few flights in this config.) and it cuts down on maintenance.

By the time you'r done with the build maybe you'll consider LiPos and retracts ...

Hope this helps hwh
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Old Mar 21, 2005, 12:35 AM
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Front view of intake, the Springair retract mount slightly protrudes into the duct. I can't note any difference in flight.

.
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Old Mar 21, 2005, 12:41 AM
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Picture at the field today - after another Rafale speed test run (I think the F-86's are still quite a bit faster ) ,


.
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Old Mar 21, 2005, 12:52 AM
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sweet, that's nothing Herb, I have had some of the ugliest intake duct in the world and had minimal losses compared to bad exhausts

now where do the tires go?
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Old Mar 21, 2005, 02:15 AM
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Hi Herb

Just caught up with your Rafale mods That's a neat u/c installation and clearly there's no need for anyone to await the single version if they're prepared to follow your lead.

I love your landing in the video - a steep really steady approach as if on rails, and the plane then stuck to the runway like a limpet. Superb!!

Gordon
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Old Mar 21, 2005, 08:48 PM
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Thanks Hoser & Gordon.

Rotating retracts would have been fun as a recreational weekend engineering projects, but I know I would not have put up with the maintenance in the long term.

In theory it's easily done, all you need is three sets of Springair nosegears, use the steering arm (or something similar) to get them to rotate on their way in, and short steel cable to set them straight on the way out.

Optimal ducting and a light wingloading means good handling, which I like . Getting anywhere close to turbine speed, that's another matter. My Rafale on 6S+6S LiPos has a rtf weight of 7.8 lbs with 9 lbs of thrust. The same Aeronaut Rafale with a P60 turbine has a similar weight but 12 lbs of thrust (plus the much higher efflux).

Here's a short video mix of the Rafale, combining several flights:

Aeronaut Rafale video
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Old Mar 21, 2005, 09:59 PM
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Rafale

Very nice conversion Herb, I still have my single Midi Fan EJF Rafale to put together and fly. I will do so and wait for the big Rafale single kit to come out, I have plenty to keep me busy till then.
One question please, where are you guys flying at?
Joe
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Old Mar 21, 2005, 10:54 PM
The blade numbers go up to 11
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Quote:
The same Aeronaut Rafale with a P60 turbine has a similar weight but 12 lbs of thrust (plus the much higher efflux).
Looks like you'll have to upgrade to 2 x 6lbs thrust EDF's

Great vid, Herb, sounds very nice and obviously goes superbly. With all that thrust, you must be throttling back in flight - what sort of flight times do you get now?

Stu.
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Old Mar 22, 2005, 12:22 PM
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hello,

I am trying to put spring air 600 retracts on my 2xEDF Aeronaut rafale.
i want to modify wooden parts a little

here is my proposal :

http://sbendi.free.fr/supportmoteur2.jpg
http://sbendi.free.fr/tuyeres2.jpg

and i have buit myself this :

http://sbendi.free.fr/retact_sof.jpg
(sorry Herb )
What do you think about that ?
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Old Mar 22, 2005, 01:01 PM
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Old Mar 22, 2005, 01:04 PM
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Except for takeoff, the test flights in the video are all done at half throttle, coasting along at ca. 1200 Watts. Duration in this mode is about 4 mins, with another 2 mins reserve.


Sofiane, Something like that could work.

I see some advantages and disadvantages:

Advantage is that you mount the LG legs on the sturdy wing root, and gain some additional space on the sides by moving the ducts inward.

Disadvantage is that you loose some space between the ducts to mount the fans securely, and that you have much longer retract legs, which increases the torque & stress on the mounts.

If you mount the retracts under the ducts, you can with some planning move the ducts & fans up a bit, and gain more space (admitedly not much, just a few mm's).
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Old Mar 22, 2005, 01:46 PM
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Herb, that video is a thing of beauty!!! nice job on the retract system also i saw the retract work on the spit and that's also very nice! The detail too, great job!
andrew
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Old Mar 22, 2005, 05:17 PM
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sound?

hi herb, nice vid, performance is great, but the sound...typically WeMo... doesn't it sound a bit like an ICDF???
Great landing, though...!
I told you before, I envy you that field! ref the 86s...we should teach them better

cheers,
RD
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Old Mar 22, 2005, 05:39 PM
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sounds ... ?

Has someone already considered to use a sound generator to reproduce a turboreactor sound ?
a mp3 player connected to an amplifier and a loudspeaker . It could take 50/100 W to the propulsion batterie
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Old Mar 22, 2005, 07:11 PM
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You mean like this :

my competition on Sunday (60 MB)

These are all very nice guys, they love anything - large or small - that flies well, including gws planes which some of them fly regularly . They don't spend a good fraction of their time debating stale issues like small versus large, or wemotec versus nanotek, they just like to fly and have a good time.

They could not care less about the sound (or at least they were polite enough not to tell me), as long as the thing tears up the sky ...


.
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Old Mar 22, 2005, 09:12 PM
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Video

Great Video Herb, where was that field I dont think it was El Toro? It looks as if they have allot of jet flying going on? Did they have some ICDF and EDF's also?
Joe
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Old Mar 23, 2005, 01:09 PM
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It's the Prado Dam club in Chino, El Toro is too close to various Irvine city roads to fly turbines & other high powered stuff safely.

I haven't seen any ICDF there, the last time I saw an ICDF was at El Toro three years ago. Do they still make those? Haven't seen any other EDF there yet either.
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Old Mar 23, 2005, 01:17 PM
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The video of Dougie's Mig and the F86's was excellent!!!
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Old Mar 27, 2005, 04:13 PM
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Hello,
I would like to have more informations about primary commands of Aeronaut Rafale.
I don't understand why the kit has just aileron.
Usually a plane has 3 primary commands. Aileron, elevator & rudder.
What is the function of canard ?

Thank's
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Old Mar 28, 2005, 01:40 PM
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You can certainly install rudder on the Rafale (see picture below for inspiration), I might do it one mine.

But you will notice that many edf's don't have rudder to save weight.

As far as the elevons are concerned, they work just fine (see video posted above), with a decent computer radio you can adjust aileron and elevator throw separately, and have dual rates as well.

Some have made the canards functional (see the previous Rafale thread, link posted at the very beginning of this thread). They apparently have some effect, allowing you to pull the nose up a bit more on a landing, just like on the original one. The need arises more on the heavier setups though, which I am trying to stay away from - for obvious reasons.

One of the problems with a canard setup is that you have added complexity -and more things that can go wrong (eg bumped into the car door etc ). In addition, the carbon rod needed for the canard mount steering sits right where the battery pack has to slide in and out.


.
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Old Mar 28, 2005, 01:48 PM
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Here's a picture of the movable canard (ECU all the way up front ),

.
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Old Mar 28, 2005, 02:02 PM
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primary commands

Thank's Herb for your response but i am not sure to understand ..
you said "As far as the elevons are concerned, they work just fine (see video posted above), with a decent computer radio you can adjust aileron and elevator throw separately, and have dual rates as well.
"

First could you show me installation of of your aileron and elevator.
Next could you detail. How to do to simulate rudder effect with both commands?
I would like to do same figures as in Aeronaut video.

Thank's
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Old Mar 28, 2005, 03:23 PM
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There is one surface on each side of the wing - they are called elevons. The transmitter electronically operates them differentially in opposit directions for "aileron" and both moving in the same direction for "elevator"

Pull back on the elevator stick - both surfaces go up
Give left aileron - the left elevon goes up, the right one goes down.
Give a combination of left and up - the left surface goes up a lot, the right on does not go down much.

Rudder is not simulated unless you install a moveable rudder surface. Rudder is not strickly needed to control the aircraft, jet type models fly just fine with only aileron and elevator functions. Bank and yank to turn so to speak.
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Old Mar 28, 2005, 03:36 PM
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Thank's Chris for the explanation
Do you think it could fly and make same figures as in aeronaut video. I mean all turns, barrel (i don't if it is the right word in english) and looping ?
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Old Mar 28, 2005, 04:06 PM
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You can certainly fly a full schedule of looping and rolling manuevers with just elevons. Point rolls are generally OK if the hesitation is quick and the roll rate reasonably quick. Slow rolls will not be possible without a rudder to hold the nose up while the model is on its side. Although if you pull the nose up 10 degrees first you can do a nice 4 or 5 second slow roll with most rudderless planes.
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Old Mar 28, 2005, 04:11 PM
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Chris, could you advice me a good computer radio to do that ?
Futaba FF7 is enough ?

thank's
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Old Mar 28, 2005, 04:17 PM
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A field force 7 ought to have all the functionality you need. Just activate elevon under wing type, plug servo's into the aileron and elevator slot and set your mix percentages. Generally you want to accept the default on elevator and adjust the aileron values downwards. Alternatively skip the mix values and go straight to the dual rate function. Set the aileron at about 75% of elevator, add some expo on both. For a futaba set you want negative expo values, start with 25% and add to taste as you fly and get the feel for the plane.

I've used the US equivalent of what you would call a field force 8. Lately I have a Futaba 9C and JR 9303 - all are very nice for complex EDF's. You can run out of channels if you are trying to do retracts, flaps etc. But for a Rafale 7 should be enough. Aileron, Elevator, Rudder if installed, Retract, Canard if installed, Nose steering.
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Old Mar 28, 2005, 05:22 PM
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Thank you very MUCH Chris !
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Old Apr 01, 2005, 03:11 PM
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Sofiane, as Chris says the Futaba you have should work fine . On my Rafale I use a Futaba 8UAF.

You migh want to practice your elevon proficiency on something smaller first though ...
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Old Apr 02, 2005, 06:35 PM
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Hi Herb I wan your inpresion about the kokam 3200 you have. I'm lookin for a 56 to 60 amp pack.

Gustavo.
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Old Apr 04, 2005, 12:42 PM
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The Kokams work well so far. I check the voltage of each cell after a flight, and occasionally balance individual cells using my Schulze set on output 2 (high voltage sensitivity), which can be a time consuming practice. With LiPos the trick is to keep the series cell count low so you don't run into serious un-balance problems.

I also have a few Polyquest packs, and they seem to work well for lower currents. At higher currents (>12C) the PQ pcb board tends to melt.

A few people at my field fly with Thundepower gen 2 cells, and they seem quite happy with them too. A few are trying the new tanics 2220 with mixed results.
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Old Apr 04, 2005, 01:51 PM
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I read in some place your setup run @56 amp full trotel did you mesur the volt of the pack ad dose rage?
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Old Apr 24, 2005, 06:59 AM
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Motor test bench

Hello everybody !
My motor test bench is ready to use. My setup is composed of :
2 Wemotec midifan
2 MEGA motors 22/20/3
2 JETI OPto + 45 controllers
a single battery : 24*GP3300 P+M (can deliver 120 A)

I want to mesure lbs/N , V, A, W, T of the setup.
I think i can get more than 40 N (maybe 50 N ???)

Here are some photo of the bench :

http://sbendi.free.fr/vueglobale.jpg

http://sbendi.free.fr/vuederriere.jpg

http://sbendi.free.fr/peson.jpg

I will publish test results and video

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Old Apr 24, 2005, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windface
I read in some place your setup run @56 amp full trotel did you mesur the volt of the pack ad dose rage?
The Kokams have been doing fine lately. The voltage under load is around 3.2V, and the Rafale cruises around at half throttle at 120+ mph .

Jon took these nice pictures last week at Best in the West 2005.

The last photo shows just how small these edfs still are compared to the turbines

.
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Old Apr 24, 2005, 10:42 PM
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Just because it's bigger don't make it better
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Old Apr 25, 2005, 08:03 PM
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Believe me there's a BIG difference in performance.

EDF makes a lot of sense for smaller models though, even the turbine guys like the smaller edfs, and their relative simplicity. For ex. you don't need a truckload of support equipment to lug along. For the larger sized models EDF makes of course no sense from a practical point of view.
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Old Apr 25, 2005, 08:40 PM
go fly! no crashes!
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oooooh! dont let hoser hear that one!
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Old Apr 25, 2005, 10:04 PM
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Personally I think we're about 2 years away from having Turbine jet sized EDF's large enough with powerful enough motors to do a electric conversion...
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Old Apr 25, 2005, 10:52 PM
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I read that but I think Herb is referring to converting a large turbine EDF. At best we are at .45 DF power

no matter how much big EDF's develop they will never get close to a turbine, maybe eventualy close to .91 DF power but at $$$$

but i think twin 90's and single or twin 120mm fan edfs are here to stay

I love em
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Old Apr 26, 2005, 03:27 AM
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I will have a single 120 mm EDF soon, beginning of May ......

120 mm EDF
10s1p KOKAM 3200
55-60A
1,5 - 1,6 kW
later I want to try 10s2p at 80A, that's more than 2kW .....

Want to tease the turbine pilots at our field .......

Heiner
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Old May 02, 2005, 09:45 PM
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slow turbines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heiner Skroblin
I will have a single 120 mm EDF soon, beginning of May ... Want to tease the turbine pilots at our field .... Heiner
Looks good Heiner ...

The above Rafale twin setup (12S LiPos) flies with 2.4 kW, it's definitely faster than some turbine setups - but only because occasionally they choose a very "sedate" setup on their turbine powered planes .

This short video I took a couple of weeks ago at my local field shows what I mean :

BVM F-86 on afterburner video

I posted more jet videos from the same day here:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Good...2727190/tm.htm
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Old Sep 17, 2005, 01:15 AM
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hi herb
how are you. I havent been here in a while. I think I havent posted in about 1.5 years.
I was the guy who glassed the inside of the rafale with carbon. Remember? probably not.

Anyway since I got the rafale in dec 2003, its been sittign boxed up waiting for completion. I woudl like to finish it. The thread has been invalubable. I have learned so much.

Since 2003 ive got married, traveled, moved. Some downtime for now. I still have yet to join an AMA Club, but DO NOT anticipate flying the rafale for some time. I would just like to build it with parts I have.


I did have a question. I am somewhat confused on the wiring setup for 2 motors. I will use a single 18-20 pack gp 3300's cells with 2 beat 50-8-30 and fun 600-15 motors. I have searched even in the tomcat thread to no help.

How did you hook up the motors to the escs and battery? I assume the battery wires each attach to the esc's in parallel, then each ESC to its motor. How do you connect the ESC's to the receiver? Do you use two channels for both or also wire the ESC's in paralled to one channel on receiver?

Also, I was quite interested in retracts. COuld you post bottom view of the rafale showing where each retract was installed? Could you launch the rafale with retracts on a grassy field? What size wheels did you use.

Thanks for your help. I am getting a cessna rtf bird as beginner, then will move into smaller jets, then finally into rafale which will be built. I anticipate 6-10 months before finally getting to rafale. I will use lipos also, but wait till later.

amit
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Old Sep 17, 2005, 09:15 AM
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Wiring:

Your single need two pair of connectors so each Beat can be connected as if it was the only ESC present. Then each motor is connected to each ESC.
The ESC's then share a Y-cable to connect with throttle port on your reciever - if you want them to use one channel. There is no problem in using one channel per ESC and mix then to act the same but its the same result anyways.
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Old Sep 21, 2005, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofiane
hello,

I am trying to put spring air 600 retracts on my 2xEDF Aeronaut rafale.
i want to modify wooden parts a little

here is my proposal :

http://sbendi.free.fr/supportmoteur2.jpg
http://sbendi.free.fr/tuyeres2.jpg

and i have buit myself this :

http://sbendi.free.fr/retact_sof.jpg
(sorry Herb )
What do you think about that ?
sofiane. Hello. did you build your rafale yet?
where did you get those structs and wheels for the rafale? I assume they are from spring air?

Thanks Haldor! I am thinking about changing my power setup to one similar to Herbs.

Would like to know how the gyro gets hooked up to the 2 steering servos and the receiver.
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Old Sep 22, 2005, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit
... Would like to know how the gyro gets hooked up to the 2 steering servos and the receiver.
I have an adjustable gain gyro linked to the front steering. You don't really need it, I just like to tinker around a bit occasionally (and I already had the gyro) .

Recent video of my Rafale talking off on California grass, taken by Gregg (or Gene, can't remember)

Another Rafale video (50+ MB )
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Old Sep 24, 2005, 04:58 PM
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i hope to get into these someday!
http://www.voy-tech.net/rafale.htm

That is a long way off though!
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Old Oct 07, 2005, 02:26 PM
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hey guys, i was wondering if someone can help me the finding the varous color schemes for the rafale?
thanks!
demetrius
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Old Oct 07, 2005, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demetrius
hey guys, i was wondering if someone can help me the finding the varous color schemes for the rafale?
thanks!
demetrius

see my link above
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Old Oct 08, 2005, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demetrius
hey guys, i was wondering if someone can help me the finding the varous color schemes for the rafale?
thanks!
demetrius
Hey Demi, do a google search and you'll find a few schemes. But most are grey camo. The proto one was white and red-blue (see the other Rafale thread).

I have been thinking of re-painting mine like this one :
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Old Oct 09, 2005, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
Hey Demi, do a google search and you'll find a few schemes. But most are grey camo. The proto one was white and red-blue (see the other Rafale thread).

I have been thinking of re-painting mine like this one :

herb
is that the BVM version turbine?
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Old Oct 09, 2005, 12:51 PM
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where can I pick one up?? A Aeronaught Rafale?
thanks!
I saw the one from EJF.com
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Old Oct 09, 2005, 02:23 PM
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Thanks Herb! I saw your link Amit! But i wanted more of a graphic representation of an aggressor type camouflage colors to choose from. I found one by the way!
Thanks again guys! Oh and netzero3234 you can pick up one from marko whose is a great guy btw at warbirds-rc.com
link, http://www.warbirds-rc.com/Merchant2...gory_Code=DARF
aeronauts version or one at roberts hangout with his version at, efj.com
link,
http://www.ejf.com/66.html
both are gorgeous looking airplanes!
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Old Oct 09, 2005, 04:00 PM
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Thanks!!
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Old Oct 10, 2005, 11:52 PM
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Where the heck can one find the SINGLE 90mm version of the Rafale? I've sent a few emails and have gotten no replies.
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 02:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gambit7
Where the heck can one find the SINGLE 90mm version of the Rafale? I've sent a few emails and have gotten no replies.
EJF has twin mini or single 90mm midi.
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
I have been thinking of re-painting mine like this one :
I am finishing my Rafale too, powered by ... (well look at picture).
I only have to install the battery somehow (6s2p kokam 3200).

Grtz,
Emile
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 01:29 PM
EDF Jet Jam 2015, May 28-31st
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Very nice Emile now we know where all the 3W spider fans have gone.
It looks like a rocket!!!!!!!
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demetrius
EJF has twin mini or single 90mm midi.
yah, they sent me a reply actually. I'm thinkin Mega 22/20/3 with 6s2p 4200 and a wemo midi and retracts. Anyone here have a similar setup for the single 90?
It should put out about 1100 watts hopefully. How reliable are the midi's at that power?
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emile
I am finishing my Rafale too, powered by ... (well look at picture).
I only have to install the battery somehow (6s2p kokam 3200).

Grtz,
Emile

nice dude very nice.
how much weight did the paint add?
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amit
Herb, is that the BVM version turbine?
Yes. Flies almost as well as the Aeronaut one .
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
Yes. Flies almost as well as the Aeronaut one .
reportedly a bvm jet flew with 2 turbines and i think about 70+lbs of thrust. amazing speed over 200mph. I think that thrust may be above the ama legal limits.
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 07:32 PM
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single rafale video?

Anyone have reports/video of the EJF/ductedfans single 90mm Rafale? I'm very close to purchasing one but havent found much info. on it. I saw one person on here building one but didnt see a flight report. Thanks.


Shawn
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gambit7
Anyone have reports/video of the EJF/ductedfans single 90mm Rafale? I'm very close to purchasing one but havent found much info. on it. I saw one person on here building one but didnt see a flight report. Thanks.


Shawn
Yes Hosers! which is now in the process of being facelefted with hacker 16L and 7s pack single midi fan and ejf retracts!
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gambit7
yah, they sent me a reply actually. I'm thinkin Mega 22/20/3 with 6s2p 4200 and a wemo midi and retracts. Anyone here have a similar setup for the single 90?
It should put out about 1100 watts hopefully. How reliable are the midi's at that power?
i don't think you mean the 22/20/3 with 6s2p pack? That will draw well over 80amps possibly 90amps. Do you mean the 22/30/2?
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 07:54 PM
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nope, I do mean the 22/20/3. Max current for these motors is 70A. My calcs. show 62 static, fancalc has it at around 70 static. Motor is actually recommended for the 90mm Midi by Mega. For a 4-6s lipoly setup they'd work great. Max RPMs are 40k, most that goes is 38k.

Of course, on paper is one thing. But I'm pretty confident I'll RARELY even be operating more then 40 amps, which is the standard amp rating for this motor. It'll handle 70AMPS in long bursts easy.

If I switched to a lighter more efficient fan it makes things even easier of course. But, I dont have that kind of dough.

btw: it also saves 60 grams (over 2 ounces).
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 08:00 PM
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EJF Rafale

Shawn, are you getting the composite version is EJF making them again? I have the version that came with pre sheeted wings. I also have the single Midi Fan ducting for mine, I have not decided on which motor to install or lipo but I have Mini Spring Air retracts for it
Joe
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Old Oct 11, 2005, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Elston
Shawn, are you getting the composite version is EJF making them again? I have the version that came with pre sheeted wings. I also have the single Midi Fan ducting for mine, I have not decided on which motor to install or lipo but I have Mini Spring Air retracts for it
Joe
The only one I see they sell is the Composite version. Same with ductedfans.com. They did say they will pre-sheet it for you for a price though, which might be what you have.
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Old Oct 12, 2005, 02:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gambit7
nope, I do mean the 22/20/3. Max current for these motors is 70A. My calcs. show 62 static, fancalc has it at around 70 static. Motor is actually recommended for the 90mm Midi by Mega. For a 4-6s lipoly setup they'd work great. Max RPMs are 40k, most that goes is 38k.

Of course, on paper is one thing. But I'm pretty confident I'll RARELY even be operating more then 40 amps, which is the standard amp rating for this motor. It'll handle 70AMPS in long bursts easy.

If I switched to a lighter more efficient fan it makes things even easier of course. But, I dont have that kind of dough.

btw: it also saves 60 grams (over 2 ounces).
on lipos amp distribution goes up after packs warm up! you are definitely looking at more than your quote of 62 static amps and i can't find any figure that fancal calculates for less then 75 amps with a 6s2p pack! And that's being generous! Maybe Chris and a few other guys can jump in here!
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Old Oct 12, 2005, 02:35 AM
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maybe you can test it and post your test?
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