SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Oct 30, 2006, 09:19 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Nice, thanks for the info
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Oct 30, 2006, 09:30 AM
EDF Jet Jam May 2014
Robert Belluomini's Avatar
United States, KY, Crestview Hills
Joined Dec 2000
6,582 Posts
Thanks for photos, quite inspiring!
Robert Belluomini is offline Find More Posts by Robert Belluomini
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2006, 06:52 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Talking about twin 90mm edf's , here's some pictures I just found of a very nice conversion of the Grumania Su-27 to twin WeMoTec 90mm by Heiner:

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showp...4&postcount=25

http://www.grumania.de/html/su27_flanker.html
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 03, 2006, 08:19 AM
Bertrand MICHELS
bmaaa's Avatar
Belgium
Joined Nov 2003
1,411 Posts
nice convertion, but... the Grumania SU-27 intake lips really don't have the corect rounded shape needed for max efficiency !. And I am not sure also that they have enough intake area !

Since Idon't read german, could you tell me if there are some comments about the flight and EDF efficiency on this german thread ?
bmaaa is offline Find More Posts by bmaaa
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 09, 2006, 09:16 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Indeed on the Grumania Su-27 the intake & fans don't look like a perfect match - but for scale outlines compromises have often to be made.

If you want perfect intakes there's lots of sport edf models out there - just not what interest me ...

The Aeronaut Rafale twin is one of those models where close to scale outlines are well mated to a very efficient intake design...
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 10, 2006, 06:34 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
... Serious independent testing on the new Thunder Power so called "extreme" 3850 does not look encouraging :

At 20C the cells (for unknown reason advertised as 22C) bend and deform already under the pull of the heatshrink sleeve . Suggestion : don't use it unprotected

http://www.elektromodellflug.de/akku-test/tp-extrem.htm

Google translation:


" The TP3850 extreme is one with 22C/40C classified left-Poly cell. That is really extreme and could not not be reconstructed after my standard (s.o. test conditions). It is extremely loadable with 20C/30C continuous /Impulslast nevertheless in the 100g class! The TP3850 shows a high middle tension situation only the break-down small with 20C receives. It is thermally stably and completely uncritical within the tested loads with a restriction. The 20C from fatigue strength one could demand this left-Poly cell only with very good cooling, I advises against however! Low internal resistance is outstanding (smaller than 4,5mOhm) under the 3800mAh cells. The nominal capacity did not reach it, usable was on the average 3650mAh. The TP3850 showed a phenomenon. It curved under the load the heat shrink sleeve and became soft starting from 55°C! Keep unprotected I for precarious! "

(my boldface)
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Dec 10, 2006 at 06:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 10, 2007, 08:17 AM
Registered User
dusmmdb34's Avatar
Alexandria LA
Joined Oct 2004
1,642 Posts
I just bought a rafale with twin 90mms, megas, and twin P60s. all installed. Seller also provided a 120mm TF 4000 fan.



stick with the 90mms or go to the 120mm???
dusmmdb34 is offline Find More Posts by dusmmdb34
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 10, 2007, 10:34 AM
EDF Jet Jam May 2014
Robert Belluomini's Avatar
United States, KY, Crestview Hills
Joined Dec 2000
6,582 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dusmmdb34
I just bought a rafale with twin 90mms, megas, and twin P60s. all installed. Seller also provided a 120mm TF 4000 fan.



stick with the 90mms or go to the 120mm???
Twin 90's!
Robert Belluomini is offline Find More Posts by Robert Belluomini
Last edited by Robert Belluomini; Jan 10, 2007 at 02:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2007, 05:17 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Twin 90mm, and sell the TF4000 fan ...

Seriously, it depends on your building skills, what you are looking for weight-wise and performance-wise, how much money you are willing to throw out
on lipos that might not fit anywhere else, whether you are planning re-use your fan setup later (tons of high quality 90mm edf models, almost complete lack of nice light 120mm edf models) etc.

Keep in mind that the twin-90 and single-120 fuselages on the Rafale are different: the twin 90 is a lot smaller, the 120 had to be widened on the bottom to fit the fan.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 11, 2007, 06:22 AM
who dares wins
like2fly!'s Avatar
London,England
Joined Apr 2005
1,850 Posts
hi Herb,
looking at Gerd Giese' data even at 15C the 3850extreme performs worse (3.44v average)than the slightly lighter Xcell 3900 (3.52v average), also the xcell is good for 3927mah v's 3658mah for the 3850extremeTP. both packs he tested were 3s.

i got afew 4s packs of matched xcell 3900's just under a year ago from http://www.rc-lipoly.de/ . i use them in 60amp wot edf application's, their still going strong

Alex
like2fly! is offline Find More Posts by like2fly!
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 12, 2007, 06:15 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
... I think for now I will just stick with the Kokam 20C 3200's and 20C 4800's, which are distributed in the US by Tower.

The 4800's are a perfect fit for the Rafale (but won't fit in the WeMoTec MiG-15 ) ...

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...FVSEARCH=Kokam

In the meantime a new 30C Kokam 4000mAh cell is out:

http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showthread.php?t=60864

which hopefully will be pretty resilient at "just" 20C - if you account for some safety margin to make the cells last longer.

Interestingly enough the recommended charge rate for the Kokam high current SLPB's has now been lowered from 3C (!) to 2C.

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 12, 2007, 08:50 AM
Registered User
Ottawa, Canada
Joined Aug 2005
86 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
Twin 90mm, and sell the TF4000 fan ...

Seriously, it depends on your building skills, what you are looking for weight-wise and performance-wise, how much money you are willing to throw out
I always thought the performance was better on the single 120, is that true?
helibasher is offline Find More Posts by helibasher
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 12, 2007, 12:18 PM
smug in granny panties
monkamarm2000's Avatar
NorCal Silicon Valley
Joined Aug 2002
11,779 Posts
Herb, I have zero proof and its oly here say, but whats the lifespan been like for you on the kokams? I've only had the smaller packs from long ago, havnt tried the newer ones in a while.

Barry
monkamarm2000 is offline Find More Posts by monkamarm2000
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2007, 06:24 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Well for high currents as we see them in edf there are really few alternatives to the Kokams.

Simple math tells you need a very high c cell unless you like to carry around a lot of dead weight.

The polyquest 3700 XP did not last more than 20 flghts or so at 20c. Gregg's tanics in the el bandito lasted seven flights. You can work out the math to see what that cost is per flight...

In europe the only other cell I see used in edf besides the Kokams (3200,4800) and Daniel's enerland cells is this x-cell. I am not sure it's available in the us.

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Jan 14, 2007 at 11:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2007, 10:25 AM
Bertrand MICHELS
bmaaa's Avatar
Belgium
Joined Nov 2003
1,411 Posts
and what about SCHUBELER's cells ?
bmaaa is offline Find More Posts by bmaaa
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2007, 11:11 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
I don't have any of Daniel Schuebeler's cells, but my understanding from the people who use them (and whom I trust) is that they are very good.

http://home.vrweb.de/schuebeler.impeller/lipo_e.html

Daniel is extremely thorough and methodic in what he does, and that's probably one of the reason why he can see through this "LiPo jungle" of constant overhype and sometimes even plain fraudulent claims ...

This other guy, Gerd Giese, also is a very reliable and thorough independent tester, who has the right tools and the right background to do what seems to be, most of the time, a sensible & reasoned evaluation:

http://www.elektromodellflug.de/datenbank.htm

I think the data is there for all to see if you know what you should be looking for.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 14, 2007, 01:25 PM
smug in granny panties
monkamarm2000's Avatar
NorCal Silicon Valley
Joined Aug 2002
11,779 Posts
that second site wow! talk about an embarrassment of riches! lotta great stuff there.

Barry
monkamarm2000 is offline Find More Posts by monkamarm2000
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2007, 12:38 AM
Registered User
dusmmdb34's Avatar
Alexandria LA
Joined Oct 2004
1,642 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
Twin 90mm, and sell the TF4000 fan ...

Seriously, it depends on your building skills, what you are looking for weight-wise and performance-wise, how much money you are willing to throw out
on lipos that might not fit anywhere else, whether you are planning re-use your fan setup later (tons of high quality 90mm edf models, almost complete lack of nice light 120mm edf models) etc.

Keep in mind that the twin-90 and single-120 fuselages on the Rafale are different: the twin 90 is a lot smaller, the 120 had to be widened on the bottom to fit the fan.

Herb

I am not sure which kit I have. The plane has twin 90s installed but came with the ducted work, fan and formers for the 120mm setup. Since the biggest EDFs I have flown have all been minifans, I think I will stick with the twin 90mm setup.

Is there a easy way to tell which one I have??

Also, this seems to be about 1/11 scale, what pilot are people using?? 1/10th or 1/12th??
dusmmdb34 is offline Find More Posts by dusmmdb34
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2007, 05:32 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Not sure ...

Looks like whoever aquired it thought he would do the twin-to-single conversion (that's why presumably he has a twin model with single fan parts).
Only later did he realize that the twin and the single have differently shaped fuselages, so the modification is not so easy.

The main difference is the height of the fuse at the fan location. In the twin it is much thinner, you can see immediately that a 120mm fan would not fit there (there's a picture of it somewhere in this thread). The 120 version has a much taller fuse at the fan location, to allow for the bigger diameter fan.

Now if only I could get somebody to deliver me two Kontronic Fun 500-19's with open ends I could start to make some progress ...
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2007, 05:52 AM
Registered User
MaHö's Avatar
Deutschland, BW, Friedrichshafen
Joined Dec 2001
876 Posts
Herb, if you send me your Emailadress, I can give you a good contact.
Martin
MaHö is offline Find More Posts by MaHö
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2007, 07:00 AM
AKA Terry Till
ex-racr's Avatar
Alexandria, VA
Joined Apr 2002
1,529 Posts
"In europe the only other cell I see used in edf besides the Kokams (3200,4800) and Daniel's enerland cells is this x-cell. I am not sure it's available in the us."


Herb,
Steve Neu's cells are the same as the Xcells (or very, very similar )

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...5&postcount=13

Terry
ex-racr is online now Find More Posts by ex-racr
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2007, 09:29 AM
Registered User
MaHö's Avatar
Deutschland, BW, Friedrichshafen
Joined Dec 2001
876 Posts
Herb, I would have two Fun500/21 open for you if you need?!
Send me a PM or Email...
Martin

Fun 500/21 --> 5S 60A ~2kg thrust.
MaHö is offline Find More Posts by MaHö
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 17, 2007, 11:50 PM
Registered User
dusmmdb34's Avatar
Alexandria LA
Joined Oct 2004
1,642 Posts
Herb,

I believe I read that you used HS85mgs in your first Rafale. Did you have any problems with them?

I understand that this plane can do over 100mph, it seems like 85mgs might be a little weak for a 7lb plane going that fast
dusmmdb34 is offline Find More Posts by dusmmdb34
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2007, 05:09 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Thanks for the offer, I am still trying to get a pair of new Fun 500-19's but it does not seem to work out

I have flown the Rafale for 3 years at 140+mph with the HS-85MG, you can always put in a servo twice as heavy. But the max torque needed can be computed from the surface area, geometry max deviation angle & flight speed (there's an online calculator somewhere) and I'm ok to 170+mph . In the new one I am using a low profile HS MG wing servo.


.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2007, 05:20 AM
Registered User
MaHö's Avatar
Deutschland, BW, Friedrichshafen
Joined Dec 2001
876 Posts
Herb the 500/21 open, are brand new in the box and come from Kontronik....but the guy from which I can get these, has only this motor and not the /19 in his workshop.
Martin
MaHö is offline Find More Posts by MaHö
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2007, 06:51 AM
EDF Jet Jam May 2014
Robert Belluomini's Avatar
United States, KY, Crestview Hills
Joined Dec 2000
6,582 Posts
Here is the online calculator:

http://atlas.csd.net/~cgadd//eflight/calcs_servo.htm



Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
Thanks for the offer, I am still trying to get a pair of new Fun 500-19's but it does not seem to work out

I have flown the Rafale for 3 years at 140+mph with the HS-85MG, you can always put in a servo twice as heavy. But the max torque needed can be computed from the surface area, geometry max deviation angle & flight speed (there's an online calculator somewhere) and I'm ok to 170+mph . In the new one I am using a low profile HS MG wing servo.


.
Robert Belluomini is offline Find More Posts by Robert Belluomini
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2007, 08:42 AM
Bertrand MICHELS
bmaaa's Avatar
Belgium
Joined Nov 2003
1,411 Posts
I see you are unsing the HS 125 MG. What is the difference with the HS 5125 MG that I have (for the rudder in my grumania Eurofighter )? ?
bmaaa is offline Find More Posts by bmaaa
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2007, 08:59 AM
EDF Jet Jam May 2014
Robert Belluomini's Avatar
United States, KY, Crestview Hills
Joined Dec 2000
6,582 Posts
5125 is the digital version.
Robert Belluomini is offline Find More Posts by Robert Belluomini
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2007, 09:40 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
I used this one, it's more specific about the input and takes a bit of the geometry into account:

http://www.modellflug-willisau.ch/Do...downloads.html

Mounting of the servo and flutter prevention (ie absolutely tight linkages) are very important imo. I also close all hinge gaps.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 18, 2007, 11:13 AM
Registered User
dusmmdb34's Avatar
Alexandria LA
Joined Oct 2004
1,642 Posts
thanks for the info. I guess I will stick with the 85mgs. I figured out the plane I have is the 120mm version. The previous owner had evidently decided to go with twin 90mms instead. It doesn't really matter to me either way. All my other EDFs are 68mm fans, so this is a step up for me in either configuration.

140mph.........hmmm..... Mine has 22/20/3Es, I will use Tanics, either 6s 3250s or 3650s, and no retracts. Should I expect speeds close to that??
dusmmdb34 is offline Find More Posts by dusmmdb34
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 19, 2007, 04:37 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
The Rafale is a very sleek airframe and will pick up speed easily, if you so desire . I have a cheap Kyosho Spitfire 40 arf that already does 120 (radar gunned level) no sweat (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=53).

If you fly the Rafale in a tight circuit with a light setup then the speed will remain low, if you load it up with batteries and start flying wide ovals full bore then it will pick up speed VERY rapidly (see my Rafale videos).

To me the issue recently has not been: how fast will it fly ? - it will fly plenty fast already with 1600 Watts or so. More appropriately then: how far can you fly it *safely*, in the sense that you can see it well without painting it all red or yellow ... Also there's the issue of weight esp. regarding landings, I prefer lighter models so the landings don't end up looking like controlled crashes with pieces flying off left and right.

The Rafale has plenty of room for batteries - so go initially for a setup that is lightweight with adequate power, you can then later increase battery weight and perhaps add a cell to get more power. The Rafale is designed as a very lightweight high performance airframe, we don't want to turn it into a flying brick When you build it, you should ask: what can I remove to make it lighter, not: what can I add to make it heavier ...

Hope this helps hwh

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Jan 19, 2007 at 04:46 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2007, 07:39 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
I did get a hold of the new series Kontronic Fun 500-19 motors so I will be balancing the fans and installing them motors in the near future ...

They are almost exactly 200g each.

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 07, 2007, 12:30 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkamarm2000
Herb, ... what's the lifespan been like for you on the Kokams? ... Barry
I have one pack of 3200's left that goes back to the Spring of 2005 (red shrink wrap below), that's the only surviving one, and it's made of a reassembled 2+1 cells from two separate 3S packs. I flew that pack this weekend and it is still going strong (I was expecting the worst), it probably has 40+ flights on it in various planes.

The black 3S Kokam 3200 pack (re-labelled as Orion) is only six months old and has ca. 10 flights on it. It seems fine so far .

The two 3200's SLPB are brand new from Tower. I had thought of getting the 4800's but they don't fit the rest of my fleet. Anyhow I had four flights on these this weekend, pulled 68A static on them (21C static) and after a 2/3 in flight discharge they were not even warm.

I suspect fabrication on the Kokam 3200's SLPB has improved significantly , the new ones run amazingly cool. Also, the PCB board & wire soldering is finally up to the task (on one of the first Rafale LiPo flights, I found later molten solder from the pcb in the fuse bottom).

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 07, 2007, 01:03 PM
Registered User
Kevin Murray's Avatar
USA, NC, Greenville
Joined Dec 1999
9,273 Posts
Herb - Will you be running the 500-19's as 6's or 5's ?
Kevin Murray is offline Find More Posts by Kevin Murray
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 07, 2007, 02:17 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Kevin, In the Midifan (or even HW-620) the Kontronic Fun 500-19 is a bit hot on say 6S Kokam 3200's since you are in the 70A+/1500W+ territory ...

I think 5S is a more conservative choice, then current then drops to ca. 55A / 1000W.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 20, 2007, 03:14 PM
Registered User
dusmmdb34's Avatar
Alexandria LA
Joined Oct 2004
1,642 Posts
well mine is ready for maiden. I plan to bungee and use 6s 3250s for the first flight. CG will be slightly forward for the first flight.

Any advice for the maiden???
dusmmdb34 is offline Find More Posts by dusmmdb34
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 20, 2007, 03:25 PM
Registered User
Buckley wa
Joined Mar 2005
986 Posts
Fantastic Mike...
Strong work...
mediq is offline Find More Posts by mediq
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 20, 2007, 03:33 PM
Registered User
Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined Jun 2002
347 Posts
I have got a video of my Rafale flight and very high nose "STOL" landing in Aspach. It is on a DVD made to be played on a standard household dvd machine.

Files are close to 1GB. If I put them on the web, can they be played from there?
Peter Bech is offline Find More Posts by Peter Bech
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 20, 2007, 04:59 PM
Registered User
dusmmdb34's Avatar
Alexandria LA
Joined Oct 2004
1,642 Posts
you would to compress it.
dusmmdb34 is offline Find More Posts by dusmmdb34
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 21, 2007, 08:26 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dusmmdb34
well mine is ready for maiden. I plan to bungee and use 6s 3250s for the first flight. CG will be slightly forward for the first flight.

Any advice for the maiden???
Be prepared for some serious "up", the cg in the instructions I have was already quite a bit forward (see earlier somewhere in the first thread). Others have had similar experiences. Unfortunately I do not have the instructions here with me so I can't quote you a number.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 21, 2007, 08:31 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Bech
I have got a video of my Rafale flight and very high nose "STOL" landing in Aspach. It is on a DVD made to be played on a standard household dvd machine. Files are close to 1GB. If I put them on the web, can they be played from there?
Use Windows Movie Maker to import them and convert them to .wmv format at 320x240 or 640x480 frame size and reasonable bitrate. Alternatively find a public domain mpeg encoder. Windows Media Encoder might work http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...r/default.mspx

If you run Linux then there's similar tools, but only mpeg might be supported.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 21, 2007, 08:48 AM
Registered User
Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined Jun 2002
347 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dusmmdb34
well mine is ready for maiden. I plan to bungee and use 6s 3250s for the first flight. CG will be slightly forward for the first flight.

Any advice for the maiden???
On my Rafale, the CG fits excactly the plan.

However, in our experience the tow hook has to be back at the inlets. The hook position showed on plan very close to the nose tip, can pull the nose down with so much force, that you cannot get enough elevator downforce to rotate the model for liftoff. Literally spoken, the hook pulls the model directly to the ground.

You must remember, that the elevator solely rely on airspeed to produce enough down force and it takes a while for the bungee to achieve that.
Peter Bech is offline Find More Posts by Peter Bech
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 21, 2007, 08:57 AM
Registered User
Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined Jun 2002
347 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
Use Windows Movie Maker to import them and convert them to .wmv format at 320x240 or 640x480 frame size and reasonable bitrate. Alternatively find a public domain mpeg encoder. Windows Media Encoder might work http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...r/default.mspx

If you run Linux then there's similar tools, but only mpeg might be supported.
I think I'll turn it to an expert then. Must be a public format, else I cannot see it myself
Peter Bech is offline Find More Posts by Peter Bech
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 21, 2007, 01:25 PM
Registered User
Copenhagen, Denmark
Joined Jun 2002
347 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Bech
I think I'll turn it to an expert then. Must be a public format, else I cannot see it myself
The expert himself, the photographer, saw my posting and called me and did the video that can be seen here (17MB mpeg file):

http://www.efk87.dk/video/peterrafale.mpg

There is a little piece of Ulf Herders flying and "landing"? at the end. The difference in noise level between Ulfs and mine is very clear.

Thanks to my friend Arvid Jensen, "The Jet Flying Postman" from Nykøbing Falster in southern Denmark for his fine shots from Aspach and making the web friendly film version for me.

He is building the Rafale II version which will be finished very soon.
Peter Bech is offline Find More Posts by Peter Bech
Last edited by Peter Bech; Feb 21, 2007 at 01:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 23, 2007, 04:29 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
That's a very nice video Peter !

Also it shows the kind of tight aerobatics you can do with a lightweight model ...
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 05, 2007, 02:43 PM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2006
15 Posts
Hi all,

I've just got my hands on the GRP 2 90mm sized Rafale.

I also have 2xds51 3ph which i bought for a 1/5 scale Meteor project (yet to be started)

I've not run the schubeler fans yet, but have run a midi fan on a Vortex36/88/1280 and 10s. This gave 2.2Kw. But that was pushing the motor to its max. All being well 2 fans should produce 12-13 lbs os thrust.

I'm hoping to fit retracts and to use either one ds51 or 2....it come down to a weight issue with the batteries, as i will need to generate maybe 4kw.

What is the Rafale like to handle/land at its max weight or heavier ??

Any views or comments?

cheers

Ian
It's going in ! is offline Find More Posts by It's going in !
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 05, 2007, 03:51 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
The secret with the Rafale (as with any other high performance edf not meant just for internet flying for that matter) is to build it LIGHT.

If you add retracts (Springairs 602's) and watch your weights closely it will fly fine already with 1600 Watts or so. The designer Joerg Rehm flies his with retracts at ca. 1600 watts... But it is built LIGHT w/o any un-necessary "features". Contrary to some people's assumption, it's a very sleek airframe that needs very little power to go fast (like eg the JePe F-16). I would look at a target weight rtf of 3.2-3.5 kg.

Rather than asking the questions: "what features should I add?" - you should ask instead: "What inessential stuff can I *remove*" so that I end up with a LIGHT airframe ??

You should watch your weight with the motors and batts closely so that you don't end up with an (expensive) overweight model.

If built LIGHT, the Rafale is an outstanding fliers as many video posted here attest. You will love it.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 14, 2007, 05:53 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
... I finally got my two controllers, which nowadays seem to be in real short supply:


.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Apr 16, 2007 at 03:42 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 14, 2007, 07:36 PM
Registered User
Doug Bateman's Avatar
Swarthmore, PA 19081
Joined Dec 2004
2,839 Posts
Guys, what are the colors being used for Herb's camoflage paint scheme and the Picture on the Rafale box? Is it two shades of grey or is one a light blue color. I try to match in my mind when i'm in the hobby shop and buy a few small spray cans and when i get home there no where near what i wanted. I think i'm going color blind. Doug
Doug Bateman is offline Find More Posts by Doug Bateman
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 15, 2007, 01:59 AM
SoCal, Year Round Flying!
bmiller's Avatar
Newport Beach, CA
Joined May 2002
5,745 Posts
Hi Doug,
I was checking out Herbs original Rafale thread (Link is on 1st post of this thread)
post 522 of the original thread has the colors and Tamiya paints he used.

Hello Herb!
You gotta get a @#$! permit from city hall to fly at the field now.
20 bucks for Dec31 thru Dec31
See you in May!

Bruce
bmiller is offline Find More Posts by bmiller
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 15, 2007, 12:32 PM
Registered User
Doug Bateman's Avatar
Swarthmore, PA 19081
Joined Dec 2004
2,839 Posts
I'm done just about everything but the missile pods on the wing tips. I noticed that in most cases i have seen there is a definite negative incidence on the missile rack in comparison to the wing's centerline. I guess they are trying to maintain the wing tip washout. Any hints on how much in measurement or degrees?
Bruce, thanks for the info and i found another scheme when there thats not camo. but very nice and could be done with spray cans. Check it out.... Doug
Doug Bateman is offline Find More Posts by Doug Bateman
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2007, 03:40 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Yes as Bruce (thx for Fairview info) says I used tamiya water based acrylics to match the original camo colors. But the blue-gray had to be custom mixed from what I remember. Also, tamiya has some nice spray cans in lots of different warbird colors.

I guess all I can say is that you have to experiment a bit on a piece of paper. Also plastic models help, you can use the Mirage if you can't find the Rafale. Either at the store, or on the internet.

The white demo scheme is very nice, but I had problems with my white Jepe f-16 on those days when the sky is milky white ... It's very good contrast on blue skies, or cloudy gray days though. Mathias Schulze's (the one of the Schulze controllers) I believe is painted in that scheme:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...6&postcount=33

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...96&postcount=2
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2007, 03:46 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Here's some decals that don't look too bad:

http://www.avonds.com/Rafale-decal-01.jpg
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2007, 03:51 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Downtilt on wingtip missile racks seems small,

http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/4...8621img7xz.jpg

Here's a picture I took yesterday at the Luftwaffe museum, a nice Mirage:

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Last edited by Herb; Apr 16, 2007 at 04:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2007, 05:19 AM
smug in granny panties
monkamarm2000's Avatar
NorCal Silicon Valley
Joined Aug 2002
11,779 Posts
nice pics herb!! i'd kill for a hour and a few mem sticks with that thing! lol

Barry
monkamarm2000 is offline Find More Posts by monkamarm2000
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2007, 12:50 PM
Registered User
dusmmdb34's Avatar
Alexandria LA
Joined Oct 2004
1,642 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Bateman
Guys, what are the colors being used for Herb's camoflage paint scheme and the Picture on the Rafale box? Is it two shades of grey or is one a light blue color. I try to match in my mind when i'm in the hobby shop and buy a few small spray cans and when i get home there no where near what i wanted. I think i'm going color blind. Doug

Doug

Here is a pic of mine, the darker grey is euro grey, not sure about the light, l'll check when I get home, but I believe it is either light ghost grey or light sea grey......
dusmmdb34 is offline Find More Posts by dusmmdb34
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2007, 03:35 PM
Put a bigger motor on it!
gtfreeflyer's Avatar
Costa Mesa, CA
Joined Feb 2007
1,436 Posts
Herb, which field is that with the paved runway and all the jets? I saw you had a pic at Fairview Park, but there aren't nearly enough EDFs there. Where is that other spot that you fly? What are the membership fees?
gtfreeflyer is offline Find More Posts by gtfreeflyer
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2007, 04:00 PM
Registered User
Doug Bateman's Avatar
Swarthmore, PA 19081
Joined Dec 2004
2,839 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dusmmdb34
Doug

Here is a pic of mine, the darker grey is euro grey, not sure about the light, l'll check when I get home, but I believe it is either light ghost grey or light sea grey......
Thanks, also what did you do your panel lines with? Doug
Doug Bateman is offline Find More Posts by Doug Bateman
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 16, 2007, 05:16 PM
Registered User
dusmmdb34's Avatar
Alexandria LA
Joined Oct 2004
1,642 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Bateman
Thanks, also what did you do your panel lines with? Doug

I simply use a soft lead pencil and straight edge. I then use clear top coat with a single drop of black in the airgun to dirty them up a bit.
dusmmdb34 is offline Find More Posts by dusmmdb34
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2007, 02:25 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtfreeflyer
Herb, which field is that with the paved runway and all the jets? I saw you had a pic at Fairview Park, but there aren't nearly enough EDFs there. Where is that other spot that you fly? What are the membership fees?
The field was at Prado dam, it was closed to all jets about a month after the picture was taken. The turbine jet crowd moved to some rather faraway places (Hemet, rabbit dry lake, butwillow), which are a bit too much driving for my taste.

At Fairview you will rarely see any larger edfs or larger planes of any type for that matter. A few guys fly the alfa foamies and similar, which can be a lot of fun. Sometimes at the end of the day we have a guy show up at the field just for the ritual puffed lipo ignition .
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2007, 02:46 PM
Put a bigger motor on it!
gtfreeflyer's Avatar
Costa Mesa, CA
Joined Feb 2007
1,436 Posts
Wait! I have a puffed LiPo and I've never seen this ritual at Fairview. I want in!
gtfreeflyer is offline Find More Posts by gtfreeflyer
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2007, 10:32 PM
SoCal, Year Round Flying!
bmiller's Avatar
Newport Beach, CA
Joined May 2002
5,745 Posts
Yeah Mark shows up and asks for my latest puffed lipo so he can finish it off in style!
bmiller is offline Find More Posts by bmiller
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2007, 08:35 AM
Registered User
Buckley wa
Joined Mar 2005
986 Posts
6s burn much better...LOL
mediq is offline Find More Posts by mediq
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2007, 10:31 AM
Registered User
dusmmdb34's Avatar
Alexandria LA
Joined Oct 2004
1,642 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mediq
6s burn much better...LOL

you would know

by the way......when I come up I will have my rafale and my Jepe F16 (unless one of them suffers from a acute case of deceleration trauma before then)
dusmmdb34 is offline Find More Posts by dusmmdb34
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2007, 10:34 AM
Put a bigger motor on it!
gtfreeflyer's Avatar
Costa Mesa, CA
Joined Feb 2007
1,436 Posts
I love how that picture was taken directly above the flame. Probably not the best angle for taking pictures of fire.
gtfreeflyer is offline Find More Posts by gtfreeflyer
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 18, 2007, 02:18 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Yes the wattage 6s puffed packs we reserve for special occasions only ...
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old May 25, 2007, 12:39 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Very little and slow work on the power setup, here's a few pics of what I have so far. I balanced the fans, connected the Kont 500's with the Jazz 80's s, did a bit of programming and spooled them up. All went fine so far, the Jazz's run very smoothly (that's what Bosch needs in their latest assembly line robotic arms I am told)

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old May 25, 2007, 12:47 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Next is the fan installation in the Rafale. Good ducting means hundreds of watts saved.

LiPos can move freely back and forth to get right CG no matter what batt size is used (12S heavy LiPo load for longer flights off runway vs. light LiPo load for short grass strip takeoff).

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old May 25, 2007, 02:16 PM
Put a bigger motor on it!
gtfreeflyer's Avatar
Costa Mesa, CA
Joined Feb 2007
1,436 Posts
Herb, I believe it was you who I met the other day at Fairview. You were flying your Mig. I was the one who didn't have any planes with me because I shipped my LiPos back to Align for replacement. See ya around! Let me know when the Rafale is ready for flight. Are you going to fly it at Fairview?
gtfreeflyer is offline Find More Posts by gtfreeflyer
Reply With Quote
Old May 25, 2007, 03:36 PM
EDF Jet Jam May 2014
Robert Belluomini's Avatar
United States, KY, Crestview Hills
Joined Dec 2000
6,582 Posts
Herb,
I like your new power setup in the Rafale. One of these days I may actually get to see one of your fly some day.
Robert Belluomini is offline Find More Posts by Robert Belluomini
Reply With Quote
Old May 25, 2007, 04:13 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Hello Bob, how are things ...

It took me almost all day yesterday to go through the checklist on just the (old) Rafale,

check for air leaks in retract system

two day pressure test (that's why Springairs are tops )

clean retract mounts from dust & residual grime

discharge/charge receiver battery (needed replacement)

load test new receiver battery

check servos, throws, steering, gyro & radio setup

determine new location to get CG right with TP 5000's Xtreme's

test power on TP 5000's XP vs. old Kokam 3200'sHD

monitor temps on the two esc's at 1/2- 2/3 throttle

new velcro mounts for new batts etc etc
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old May 28, 2007, 10:41 PM
SoCal, Year Round Flying!
bmiller's Avatar
Newport Beach, CA
Joined May 2002
5,745 Posts
Hi Herb,
Two of these flying at the basin today.
Gregg said to tell you this one has 2 120mm fans.
bmiller is offline Find More Posts by bmiller
Last edited by bmiller; May 28, 2007 at 11:31 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old May 29, 2007, 02:11 AM
Bertrand MICHELS
bmaaa's Avatar
Belgium
Joined Nov 2003
1,411 Posts
It even fly on a SINGLE 70mm fan !

Yes, I ... forgot to connect the second battery, and... she flew relatively well with only 600w (MiniFan + HET 20W20: 40A/14v). Even fly level half trottle !.


interesting isn't it ? The weight was 2600 grammes for 600 watts !

So... Who need a MONSTER 120mm
bmaaa is offline Find More Posts by bmaaa
Reply With Quote
Old May 29, 2007, 03:03 AM
Registered User
demetrius's Avatar
Van Nuys
Joined Mar 2004
1,078 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmiller
Hi Herb,
Two of these flying at the basin today.
Gregg said to tell you this one has 2 120mm fans.
If I'm not mistaken, I think i've seen him there several times! I think he has a jetcat titan or p200 in that! It's pretty heavy and it's a hand full landing her!
demetrius is online now Find More Posts by demetrius
Reply With Quote
Old May 29, 2007, 02:19 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Nice one! I think I saw it fly at BitW some time ago, very nice flyer. 165mph only ??
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old May 29, 2007, 09:34 PM
SoCal, Year Round Flying!
bmiller's Avatar
Newport Beach, CA
Joined May 2002
5,745 Posts
Gregg thought you'd like that one!
There were 7 or 8 turbines there, I'm sure it was the same guy you've seen Andrew, I've seen him there before.
The 2 Rafales flew beautifully, this one had a ugly bouncy landing on its 1st flight as he happened to touchdown right when a huge gust blew thru the field. No damage.
The rest of the turbine flights were essentially flawless. And oh that sound!!
bmiller is offline Find More Posts by bmiller
Reply With Quote
Old May 30, 2007, 12:47 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Yes for some reasons Rafales that fly well seem popular



Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old May 30, 2007, 02:22 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
The new Rafale should be flying in no time ...

The ducts needed some more laminating epoxy, I used phenolic microballons to see where the additional epoxy was getting absorbed.

The motor wiring and installation is almost done, hopefully the fan on top of the heatsinks won't be needed.

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old May 30, 2007, 02:29 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
I tried avoiding using epoxy as much as possible as it adds too much weight, the pu is *much* lighter and provides in some instances for a stronger bond due to the larger surface adhesion.

On the wing attachments and retract mounts I've used epoxy though.

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old May 30, 2007, 02:34 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Decided against opening a huge hatch for the servo as it would weaken the wing further.

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old May 30, 2007, 02:43 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
The esc's might need a fan, hopefully not, the heatsinks & airflow might do the job.

Have to find a way to make the temp sensor visible on the outside.


.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 02, 2007, 03:04 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Arvid in Denmark and George G. in Switzerland have in the meantime flown their fantastic looking Rafales.

Arvid's Rafale:

http://www.sdrvedby.dk/rafale/album/index.html

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 02, 2007, 03:06 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
George G's Rafale:

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 05, 2007, 02:06 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Last installment of pictures of the new Rafale, should be ready to fly in a short time.

2 x Kontronic Fun 500-19 open ended

2 x Kontronic Jazz 80

Springair 602's

TP extremes 5000 6S

ca. 2020 Watts initially

weight ready to fly ca. 2.96 kg = 105 oz = 6.6 lbs w/o paint


.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 05, 2007, 08:36 PM
SoCal, Year Round Flying!
bmiller's Avatar
Newport Beach, CA
Joined May 2002
5,745 Posts
Shes ready for paint!
What scheme are you going with? camo, demonstration, aerobatic...
Bruce
bmiller is offline Find More Posts by bmiller
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 05, 2007, 10:31 PM
Registered User
demetrius's Avatar
Van Nuys
Joined Mar 2004
1,078 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
Last installment of pictures of the new Rafale, should be ready to fly in a short time.

2 x Kontronic Fun 500-19 open ended

2 x Kontronic Jazz 80

Springair 602's

TP extremes 5000 6S

ca. 2020 Watts initially

weight ready to fly ca. 2.96 kg = 105 oz = 6.6 lbs w/o paint


.
Nice job Herb! Can I send you mind and you can start on it!
Also, how's that small esc fan? I take it that you're gonna put that assembly outside the ducting? What kind of cooling do you expect from that fan and where did you pick that up at?
thanks
demetrius is online now Find More Posts by demetrius
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 06, 2007, 02:12 AM
smug in granny panties
monkamarm2000's Avatar
NorCal Silicon Valley
Joined Aug 2002
11,779 Posts
herb that one on the other page was that a aero or one of the biger ones?

Barry
monkamarm2000 is offline Find More Posts by monkamarm2000
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 06, 2007, 01:12 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Barry, they are all Aeronaut Rafales, except for the Blue Angels lineup. Those are turbines but I don't know which make.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 06, 2007, 01:18 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by demetrius
Nice job Herb! Can I send you mine and you can start on it!

Also, how's that small esc fan? I take it that you're gonna put that assembly outside the ducting?

What kind of cooling do you expect from that fan and where did you pick that up at? thanks
You mean your's not flying yet with your spanking new mw44 ??

Hopefully there will be no need for a fan, the Jazz 80 is reputed to do very well at reduced throttle, no matter how reduced (this was a serious problem I had with the Hacker Masters, they would get smoking hot at partial throttle).
I still have to do some static testing on that.

The two Jazz 80's will be located just behind the cockpit, up in the attic. Since I don't plan on having gear doors (kiss principle) there should be plenty of needed airflow for esc's and battery.

The small fans are computer (or graphics card) fans at $1.30 each (conrad), I brought a boxful from germany.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 06, 2007, 01:23 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmiller
She's ready for paint!
What scheme are you going with? camo, demonstration, aerobatic ...
Bruce
Not sure yet, the black one seems kind of dull, I still like the French camo scheme best. Or a metallic one. The first three below are of course French Mirages and not Rafales.

.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 06, 2007, 07:33 PM
SoCal, Year Round Flying!
bmiller's Avatar
Newport Beach, CA
Joined May 2002
5,745 Posts
You already have the french camo version!
How about this one I found.....
its a small pic, didn't see any others that were bigger of this version,
Also saw a Tiger meet version but it seemed weird!
bmiller is offline Find More Posts by bmiller
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 07, 2007, 01:13 AM
Bertrand MICHELS
bmaaa's Avatar
Belgium
Joined Nov 2003
1,411 Posts
Herb, with "only" 6s-5000mA and those 2 big motors, are't you afraid of a very short motor run ? What will be the curent draw of those 2 Fun500 ?
bmaaa is offline Find More Posts by bmaaa
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 07, 2007, 02:15 AM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
You might want to have a look at this post :

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=573

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaaa
... she flew relatively well with only 600w (MiniFan + HET 20W20: 40A/14v). Even fly level half trottle ! ...
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 07, 2007, 02:22 AM
smug in granny panties
monkamarm2000's Avatar
NorCal Silicon Valley
Joined Aug 2002
11,779 Posts
just thought it was diff cause of having twin 120's! And love that pic of the IV!

Barry
monkamarm2000 is offline Find More Posts by monkamarm2000
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 07, 2007, 12:10 PM
Suspended Account
k_sonn's Avatar
Bellevue, WA
Joined Feb 2004
2,083 Posts
Hey Barry,

All of the Rafales on the previous are not Aeronaut Rafales. The twin 120mm green and white Rafale looks like a BVM which was originally desiged for twin BV glow fans.

Kirk
k_sonn is offline Find More Posts by k_sonn
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 07, 2007, 12:47 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkamarm2000
just thought it was diff cause of having twin 120's! And love that pic of the IV! Barry
Of course the blue/white/orange one at the Sepulveda basin is a turbine bvm Rafale - that was supposed to be a joke .

http://www.bvmjets.com/JetKits/rafale-bo.htm
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 07, 2007, 12:48 PM
smug in granny panties
monkamarm2000's Avatar
NorCal Silicon Valley
Joined Aug 2002
11,779 Posts
i figured they had to be bigger to fit twin 120's.
monkamarm2000 is offline Find More Posts by monkamarm2000
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 07, 2007, 01:16 PM
shut up & fly
hoser's Avatar
United States, FL, Miami
Joined May 2001
3,824 Posts
herb i like the camo myself. I just use the sand camo a lot because it very easy to see in the air compared to the blue camo.

but look at this:

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.co...an/gal1825.htm

i found this AFTER i had done my scheme
hoser is offline Find More Posts by hoser
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 07, 2007, 01:27 PM
shut up & fly
hoser's Avatar
United States, FL, Miami
Joined May 2001
3,824 Posts
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/

some more scroll down
hoser is offline Find More Posts by hoser
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 07, 2007, 08:29 PM
Lithium Member
Herb's Avatar
Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Nice link Jose! I like the splinter, Thanks.
Herb is offline Find More Posts by Herb
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mini-Review Rafale by Aeronaut Herb Electric Ducted Fan Jet Talk 992 Mar 20, 2005 11:17 PM