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Old Mar 02, 2005, 06:37 PM
The Magician.
birdofprey's Avatar
Lucas, Kansas
Joined Nov 2002
1,849 Posts
And I guess some people are just uninformed.

The AMA does NOT sanction fields. They sanction EVENTS. They charter clubs. But they DO NOT sanction fields.

You may also be interested to know that Wes De Cou (AMA Flying Site Coordinator) IS working with the City of Chandler to get the field approved as an E-Flight park.

Safe and reasonable use of this site falls well within the AMA safety code! If the City of Chandler decides to disallow the use of R/C aircraft at the CB due to complaints, than the AMA coverage would not apply due to the law being broken by those who continue to fly there. As of now, the City has not said "No", but they certainly will if residents are complaining.

HOWEVER, with the attitudes expressed so far, I will not be the least bit surprised to see it fail! Oh well...I guess as long as one or two people get to have their fun for a short while, it does not matter what happens to the greater e-flight community

The loss of this site will reverse a trend that has been started in the valley. Chandler is considering allowing e-flight in this and some other parks. Other cities are watching to see what happens. If this goes down, we may not get the chance again

Knowledge is powerful...A little knowledge is dangerous.


Justin Ammon
CASL V.P.
www.CASL.net
www.EdgeRC.com
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Old Mar 02, 2005, 07:08 PM
M0unt@in M0del$ minion
turbojoe's Avatar
United States, AZ, Mesa
Joined Jul 2002
7,246 Posts
Like Tom said. It's really not about the airframe. It's about a resident complaining about the noise. The fact that it's a wing doesn't matter in the least to them. I'll admit that a couple of years ago the sound of a Zagi really annoyed me. It seems the people that are proficient with wings know how to keep them quieter now. When flying with Chris a couple of weeks ago I was surprised at how much quieter his much higher powered wings were than my MiniBOP. Mine can be downright irritating. I really need to play with motor mounting to get the prop further back and hopefully quiet it down some. I'll work on that before I fly it again. I'm sure that's all helisfreak needs to do. There have been a LOT of wings flown there with no complaints until now. That kinda tells me it's probably one plane that is the problem. I know mine is loud enough that it would be a problem at this point in time to fly it there. I'm not (offensive content removed by moderator) on wings in general and in my first post I probably shouldn't have even used the word "wing". That was a mistake on my part. I'm just saying that if a resident is complaining about one certain plane then that pilot has a responsibility to either quiet it down or fly it elsewhere otherwise his defiance is going to cost everyone a place to fly. We're starting to bicker amongst ourselves and this shouldn't be happening. We should really be catering to the local residents and doing everything in our power to please them.


Joe
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Last edited by tonyo; Mar 03, 2005 at 03:16 AM. Reason: offensive content
Old Mar 02, 2005, 07:40 PM
helisfreak
A moderator felt this post violated the following rule: Highly Offensive Content (Immediate suspension). It is temporarily hidden while helisfreak edits it.
Old Mar 02, 2005, 07:46 PM
Mum is the word!
Joined Jun 2003
6,785 Posts
Vu come fly with us your welcome anytime.
Ch ris
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Old Mar 02, 2005, 07:57 PM View Post
helisfreak
A moderator felt this post violated the following rule: Personal Attack. It is temporarily hidden while helisfreak edits it. Show it to me anyway.
Old Mar 03, 2005, 01:48 AM
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asmokindeal's Avatar
Phoenix, Arizona
Joined Apr 2004
476 Posts
This is all getting blown way out of proportion. It's not like there are demonstrators picketing CB. In the years that I have flown there this is only the second time I have heard of a resident complaining. We hear of one complaint and all of a sudden the sky is falling and nobody that flies wings should go anywhere near this field.

Has anybody gone to the trouble of finding out if there is any kind of a file on RC flying, CB and complaints? For all we know it ends when the city employee comes out. We arent breaking any laws flying our evil wings there. What makes everybody think that an occassional complaint is going to get the whole site shut down?

FULL SCALE AIRCRAFT FLY OVER THIS SITE ALL DAY LONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you telling me it ok for a full scale passanger plane to fly 800 feet over the bowl but its not ok for me to fly my 36in foam wing over the bowl?
Its time to get real about all of this. The sky isn't falling, we arent going to lose our site, wing pilots arent going to spoil it for everybody.

Sorry to disapoint you Justin, but you can climb down off your soap box.
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Old Mar 03, 2005, 05:17 AM
Just fly the darn wing!!!
ScYcS's Avatar
Germany, NRW, Herford
Joined Oct 2003
2,210 Posts
Appearantly i didn't know enough about your location when i posted. It seems to be a quite popular place.

Well, here's my take on MY location and what happened HERE.

I was flying my wings on an open field, far away from most everything. There was one (1!) house relatively close (too far to even fly there though; would've lost the signal). This guy living there came over and told me i couldn't fly there, it's too loud, it's too dangerous, the city won't allow it etc etc.

What i did is that i stopped flying there for a while, then went to the city hall and talked to the guy in charge of the field. After talking for a while, demonstrating my wing, how fast it goes, how loud it is etc., he said there is absolutely no reason why i shouldn't fly there. A couple weeks later this complainer went to a town hall meeting and wanted to convince the board members of closing the field for RC. They decided to take a look for themselves and went over to meet us. One board member is now flying with us in that field and the complainer never came over again.

That's my story. Appearantly, your location is a little different, so take this with a grain of salt.
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Old Mar 03, 2005, 05:22 AM
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Don Sims's Avatar
Outside of Dyer, Tn. USA
Joined May 2000
7,135 Posts
The issue is a major one to city officials around the world not just the CB. Please keep the discussion civil and within the site policies you agreed too when signing up. Tony and I have cleaned up the thread and it's time to look at the issue globally not personally. Feel free to mention the CB as an example but keep it at a non flaming level.

Thankee!
Don
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Old Mar 03, 2005, 12:26 PM
Registered User
Marlborough, Massachussetts, United States
Joined May 2002
1,875 Posts
There is another thread in this forum about reducing the noise level of a flying wing. It's a very simple mod for any foam wing and cuts the noise by at least 50%. Here's the link: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=341387 .

I have two flying wings (Gryphon and Zagnutz) and a few traditional planes. The Gryphon became much quieter when I switched from the GWS 3x2 prop to the GWS 3x3 prop. The Zagnutz became dramatically quieter when I cut away some foam around the motor mount as in the above thread. My Zagnutz now makes about the same amount of noise as a stock GWS Beaver with geared Speed 300 motor. It's much louder then a traditional plane with a direct drive motor, but it's not nearly as annoying as it was before I made the mod.

I fly at a sailplanes and electrics only club field and also at a local school. Noise is an issue at both sites, so I try to keep all my planes as quiet as possible.

Another factor to consider is the time of day you fly. If you must fly a loud plane, do it in the middle of the afternoon when there is more background noise (traffic, lawn mowers, etc.). Even a quiet plane can appear loud early in the morning.
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Old Mar 03, 2005, 12:44 PM
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asmokindeal's Avatar
Phoenix, Arizona
Joined Apr 2004
476 Posts
I personally like the noise. I paid a lot of extra money for that noise.

At CB where we fly the field is absolutely HUGE. There are numberous othere loud noises going on at that field. Scale airplanes in the pattern, gas scooters, playing children, leaf blowers, lawn mowers, power tools, motorcycles, cars, the freeway 1000 feet away. They have selected our noise to pick on.

I could understand if you fly next to a school or in a small field but this field is very large.

It would be like outlawing crying babies in public places. Why do we have to bend over backwards to accomidate a couple of people out of the thousands that live near this field. The squeaky wheel always gets the oil.

If these people are going to town council meetings and complaining then maybe we should be going to the same meetings to defend ourselves. It sounds like everybody wants to WIMP OUT and surrender. Why can't we fight back?

Rich
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Old Mar 03, 2005, 12:57 PM
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Marlborough, Massachussetts, United States
Joined May 2002
1,875 Posts
The problem with fighting back is that there are at best a few hundred people flying RC planes at any given field, vs. a few thousand living in the area. If it comes to a vote, I guarantee you the town council will side with the residents rather then the flyers. Even if only one resident complains, that resident will likely be seen by the town council as representing the view point of 100's of others who are annoyed, but not complaining.
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Old Mar 03, 2005, 01:33 PM
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Wing Destroyer's Avatar
Glendale, Arizona
Joined May 2004
186 Posts
Hmmmm.

Fight back or don't fly? Hmmmm. Fight back. Is someone sitting out there watching and listening to see if someone is loud? Cuz' they really arent so loud that it disturbs people from their daily life. It is just the wings right now, because that is what it was targeted after. If JUST the wings cant fly, then how is it targeted over everybody? It is the airframe. I geuss if you want to really save the bowl, then there should be some type of Chandler Bowl club. Do you absolutely have to do whatever with the AMA? just be unnofficial. because if some people cant fly there but others can, then thats wrong. Just my 2 cents.
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Old Mar 03, 2005, 02:10 PM
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asmokindeal's Avatar
Phoenix, Arizona
Joined Apr 2004
476 Posts
Hail AMA!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing Destroyer
Do you absolutely have to do whatever with the AMA? just be unnofficial. because if some people cant fly there but others can, then thats wrong. Just my 2 cents.
You bring up a good point.
Why do we need to bring in the AMA at that field? Frequency control? People are still going to pull up in their cars and flip on their TX's. The people that do it are the brand new pilots that don't even know about frequency control...usually. The guys that are going to have AMA arent going to be the problem as far as frequency controlls go.

Keep the AMA out of our field!!! I don't enjoy myself when I am at an AMA field...regulations, rules and hoops to jump through.

Requiring AMA is just going to make it harder for a newbie to get into the hobby.

"No, put your new RTF back into the car you need a special licence from a large orginization to fly at OUR field."

AMA is highly questionable anyway. (bow to the almighty AMA) The point has been brought up that AMA wouldn't pay any claims anyway. It is too close to the Airport, the freeway, a road etc...

Today it's flying wings, tommorow its Heli's and the next day its flying bulliten board planes.

The last time i was there a dog barked...No more Dogs at CB.
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Old Mar 03, 2005, 02:50 PM
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Wing Destroyer's Avatar
Glendale, Arizona
Joined May 2004
186 Posts
I sign!

Plus, with everyone sitting there and greeting you, one of them is going to make sure you go and put your frequency up on the board. I actually like it that way better than going around and embaressing myself, "Hey, what frequency are you on?"
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Old Mar 03, 2005, 02:53 PM
The Magician.
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Lucas, Kansas
Joined Nov 2002
1,849 Posts
The City of Chandler called upon the AMA to assist them in setting the CB up as an electric flight park nearly 2 years ago. If the AMA had not become involved, flying at this local would have long since been banned. It still can be banned. The city ordinances that must be amended to continue to allow the use of the CB as an electric flight park are still in committee, and can still be shot down.

The city has a lot at stake here, and they are doing what they can to allow us to continue to use the park while protecting them selves from lawsuits/liability if an accident happens.

We as R/C flyers are not involving the AMA, the City of Chandler is. They made first contact with the AMA.

What we really need is for people to stop spreading miss information and outright lies, and for them to work with the city so we can keep this field.

There have been numerous fields in the valley that were developed as R/C flying locations that have been lost over the years due to people that moved into the area around these locations and then complained to the city about the noise. The fields were then shut down by the cities they were located in.

Do not be naive and think that we will not lose these locations. Fields are lost nearly every day around the country.

I, along with many others, used to fly in Mesa city parks more than 15 years ago (silent flight/sailplanes) with the OK of the city. A few residents in Mesa around these parks began to complain about the aircraft and how they scared them (not noise complaints), and the city eventually shut down all flying in their parks due to the complaints.

Everything I have said is from personal experience over the more than 20 years I have flown R/C. I DO NOT want to see more locations lost.

BTW, The Arizona Model Aviators field had to impose noise limits on aircraft due to a resident more than a mile (5280+ft) away that was filing complaints with the city and county.

Justin
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