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Old Feb 20, 2005, 09:53 PM
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Wattage Mig-15

Ok I understand this has been covered in various threads but I can't seem to get anyone to answer me on my power combo ideas. I managed to pick up this plane for $50 I couldn't pass it up. I am going tomorrow to buy the power setup and just want some input. I have a choice of several BL motors, E-Flight 4200kv, E-Flight 3700kv, UltraflyŽ A/30/24 & A/30/29 Brushless Motors, 2 different Hacker motors they are both 3700 kv and 4300kv or in that ball park. My ESC is going to be a CC PHOENIX-25. Now my battery is also up for debate. I have currently a Tanic 2s 2150 and willing to buy either a TP 2s or 3s 1320, TP 2s or 3s 1900, or TP 2s or 3s 2100.

Someone please give me some feedback. I had a previous plane go down in flames literally , because I got bad info from one person I thought of as god in this field.

Jason
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Old Feb 21, 2005, 09:57 PM
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And why is the battery up for debate??

Brian
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 01:20 PM
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The battery was up for debate because I was worried about burning out my ESC. But the Tanic 2s 2150 only puts out 25.8 amps continuous and the CC Pheonix 25 ESC is 25 amps with surge to 35 amps. So I won't have to worry about what happened to my C-47 happening to this one. For the motor I went with the E-flight EFLM 1100. It is rated at 4200 Kv and can handle a continuous current of 18 Amps with a surge to 24 Amps. So at this point I run a slight risk of burning up the motor rather than catching the plane on fire because the ESC burned up. I can live with replacing a motor as opposed to a whole plane. I am also using the stock Wattage fan.

Jason
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 06:52 PM
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The 3700 kv motors would be a good mid power level match for the wattage fan. I'd watch the temperature if the motors are short though. I plan to use the EFlight 400 4200 motor in a WAttage fan on 3S TP2100 lipos. It should pull about 22 amps or so, maybe a bit more. I'd worry about running the shorter EFlight 370 motors at that power level, but at a lower amp draw the short motors might be ok. I don't recall any amp draws from the EFlight 3700 KV motor, but I do recall someone mentioning it somewhere. I don't know how long it is. The longer motors have more mass and thus should be able to deal with heat more effectively and thus can be run at higher wattage levels.

Not sure why the EFlight ESC burned up, perhaps it doesn't have thermal shutdown protection? I've had a few escs burn up over the years. Maybe they don't have that feature in order to save money? Not sure, don't know a thing about them.
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Old Feb 22, 2005, 07:38 PM
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Ed the 4200 Kv motor I bought is the same one you are going to use. The E-Flight 400 4200 Kv. With all the research I have done hopefully the setup I mentioned before will work well with no loss of aircraft this time. The last one lost was a result of not enough research and taking the word of only one person. I have since learned better.

Jason
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Old Apr 15, 2007, 11:47 PM
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Ok I am resurecting an old thread here. I am formerly both Reaper9294 and Reaper1976. Not banned or anything like that just new name, getting older and memory ain't what is used to be as far as PW and such.

Anyhow I have finally Completed construction of this plane after it collecting dust in my closet. The power setup is a Park 400-4100kv motor with heat sink, CC ph25 25A continuous and 35A burst, and using a Common Sense 3s 1700 rated up to 22.5 amps continuous.

I have seen just a few posts that I went through in the last few days that this setup with this motor is too hot for the fan and ESC I have. On the other hand have seen several others that used this setup and it works well. BTW my ESC is mounted in the ducting on the underside of the cockpit or electronics area in the main duct airflow (pics to follow once I get home).

My question is this. How many amps at WOT will this pull? Is this setup too hot for equipment stated?

I do want to be able to tear up the sky, But in all actuallity I will most likely only fly at about 50%-75% throttle and just mild aerobatics and fly patterns with a once in a while high speed pass.

Jason
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Old May 01, 2007, 08:38 PM
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maiden yet jay?
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Old May 01, 2007, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FresnoJay
Ok I am resurecting an old thread here. I am formerly both Reaper9294 and Reaper1976. Not banned or anything like that just new name, getting older and memory ain't what is used to be as far as PW and such.

Anyhow I have finally Completed construction of this plane after it collecting dust in my closet. The power setup is a Park 400-4100kv motor with heat sink, CC ph25 25A continuous and 35A burst, and using a Common Sense 3s 1700 rated up to 22.5 amps continuous.

I have seen just a few posts that I went through in the last few days that this setup with this motor is too hot for the fan and ESC I have. On the other hand have seen several others that used this setup and it works well. BTW my ESC is mounted in the ducting on the underside of the cockpit or electronics area in the main duct airflow (pics to follow once I get home).

My question is this. How many amps at WOT will this pull? Is this setup too hot for equipment stated?

I do want to be able to tear up the sky, But in all actuallity I will most likely only fly at about 50%-75% throttle and just mild aerobatics and fly patterns with a once in a while high speed pass.

Jason
It is indeed too hot if you use stock 6 blade impeller. The Amp would pull over 25 Amp and you battery life would be reduced or even puff quick.
You will be fine if you remove 3 blade from the impeller to make it a 3 blade impeller. Amp draw would drop to within the capability of your battery. Less static thrust but better top speed.
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Old May 01, 2007, 10:02 PM
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If you remove 3 blades from the rotor you might not like the performance you end up with, it is much better to go with a motor that is more suited to the load than to adjust the fan to make a lighter load on an inadequate motor. 3 blades in a duct will turn in poor performance in a ducted installation, the spacing(blade density is not effective in raising pressure thru a duct and hence less performance, 6 blades demands a little more power but you end up with grat performance without risking the airframe to damage from a tipstall in a handlaunch, just run the right motor and put the right battery into it for proper performance. Best case is Mega 16/15/3 on 3s TP2200, same size as the TP2100pl with more amp capacity to sustain power, going 4s will put the rpms in the same area as the 16/15/2 on 3s but lower amp draw. The E-flight 400-4200 works on 3s and has worked for me and several others, the motor would last onger if it had a heatsink on it but a little shorter run or even throttle control will extend its life in this application.

Eric B.
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Old May 01, 2007, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirX
If you remove 3 blades from the rotor you might not like the performance you end up with, it is much better to go with a motor that is more suited to the load than to adjust the fan to make a lighter load on an inadequate motor. 3 blades in a duct will turn in poor performance in a ducted installation, the spacing(blade density is not effective in raising pressure thru a duct and hence less performance, 6 blades demands a little more power but you end up with grat performance without risking the airframe to damage from a tipstall in a handlaunch, just run the right motor and put the right battery into it for proper performance. Best case is Mega 16/15/3 on 3s TP2200, same size as the TP2100pl with more amp capacity to sustain power, going 4s will put the rpms in the same area as the 16/15/2 on 3s but lower amp draw. The E-flight 400-4200 works on 3s and has worked for me and several others, the motor would last onger if it had a heatsink on it but a little shorter run or even throttle control will extend its life in this application.

Eric B.
Are you saying 3 blade fans are all bad?

There are the Alfa fan and XF fan out there both 3 blade and both seem to perform well.

The SF fan used in the E-flite airliner and several SF jets are also modded from 6 blade to 3 blade to use a small out runner motor and seems to be well accepted. The SF fan is a close clone of the Wattage fan just with stiffer impeller blades.
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Old May 01, 2007, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirX
If you remove 3 blades from the rotor you might not like the performance you end up with, it is much better to go with a motor that is more suited to the load than to adjust the fan to make a lighter load on an inadequate motor. 3 blades in a duct will turn in poor performance in a ducted installation, the spacing(blade density is not effective in raising pressure thru a duct and hence less performance, 6 blades demands a little more power but you end up with grat performance without risking the airframe to damage from a tipstall in a handlaunch, just run the right motor and put the right battery into it for proper performance. Best case is Mega 16/15/3 on 3s TP2200, same size as the TP2100pl with more amp capacity to sustain power, going 4s will put the rpms in the same area as the 16/15/2 on 3s but lower amp draw. The E-flight 400-4200 works on 3s and has worked for me and several others, the motor would last onger if it had a heatsink on it but a little shorter run or even throttle control will extend its life in this application.

Eric B.
I'll jump in and say I disagree on the 16/15/3 as a choice. It's what I have and it requires an obnoxious amount of noseweight if you keep the fan in the stock location.

I'd rather have a 16 or 17 ounce Mig then a 21+ ounce mig.

If I could go back and repurchase the parts I'd pick a different motor.
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Old May 02, 2007, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirX
If you remove 3 blades from the rotor you might not like the performance you end up with, it is much better to go with a motor that is more suited to the load than to adjust the fan to make a lighter load on an inadequate motor. 3 blades in a duct will turn in poor performance in a ducted installation, the spacing(blade density is not effective in raising pressure thru a duct and hence less performance, 6 blades demands a little more power but you end up with grat performance without risking the airframe to damage from a tipstall in a handlaunch, just run the right motor and put the right battery into it for proper performance. Best case is Mega 16/15/3 on 3s TP2200, same size as the TP2100pl with more amp capacity to sustain power, going 4s will put the rpms in the same area as the 16/15/2 on 3s but lower amp draw. The E-flight 400-4200 works on 3s and has worked for me and several others, the motor would last onger if it had a heatsink on it but a little shorter run or even throttle control will extend its life in this application.

Eric B.
I also have to disagree on the above statement. I have the Turbo Hawk with the WPF on 3 blades and it fly's great on that setup with a 3900 Kv outrunner. I had the 6 blades in it and the amp's were a bit high for the 1500 3 cell packs that I fly it with. By removing 3 blades I don't get as much pull but the speed is about the same but the amp's are lower to use the packs without over heating them. I also have the Super Airliner and have also used the 6 blade set up and the 3 blades with the 3800 Kv outrunner motors. Same thing lower amp's longer flying time and no tip stall on either plane from a hand launch. I also fly the Wattage F-86 and S3A Viking on a 3 blade set up. I just removed 3 blades from my Hobby Lobby Firebird with a 3600 Kv inrunner to lower the amp's and it still fly's great. I'll take 3 blades on a WPF any time over the 6 blade set up.
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Old May 02, 2007, 02:12 AM
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I can understand trimming half the blades off the get the power consumption down to fit your existing power system but stating that it is a better solution then having the right motor and battery combination in the first place a matter of personal preference and not a factual blanket statement.

My disagreement w/ what airx said is strictly limited to the Mega 16/15/3 as an optimal choice for the Mig/F86 because of the increase in wingloading required to carry it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shschon
Are you saying 3 blade fans are all bad?

There are the Alfa fan and XF fan out there both 3 blade and both seem to perform well.

The SF fan used in the E-flite airliner and several SF jets are also modded from 6 blade to 3 blade to use a small out runner motor and seems to be well accepted. The SF fan is a close clone of the Wattage fan just with stiffer impeller blades.
I think he was just talking about the WPF rotor w/ 3 blades removed vs unmodified. I highly doubt he was making a blanket blade count statement for all ducted fans.
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Old May 02, 2007, 07:53 AM
EDF rules... :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shschon
Are you saying 3 blade fans are all bad?

There are the Alfa fan and XF fan out there both 3 blade and both seem to perform well.

The SF fan used in the E-flite airliner and several SF jets are also modded from 6 blade to 3 blade to use a small out runner motor and seems to be well accepted. The SF fan is a close clone of the Wattage fan just with stiffer impeller blades.
Read a little deeper there bud, in a ducted installation it is less efficient in moving air because the blade coverage(density). Those jets use podded installs which in that case you can just about use a 2 blade and make it work. The reason blade density is a factor in long duct(overall 12-24 inches for a 65mm fan) is the air pressure downstream forces its way in between the blades after it passes and the next blade is having to work on some of the air that the previous blade has already worked on and it takes 20%-30% more rpm to bring that efficiency back to the level of the 6 blade. This is pretty much a fact. Removing blades from a fan rotor will not decrease the load as the motor will rev till load is regained and you will only have gained 5% more velocity from it, in pods this is a fair trade in duct it wont happen as the wetted surface kills any gains.

Eric B.
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Old May 02, 2007, 07:54 AM
EDF rules... :)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raido56
I also have to disagree on the above statement. I have the Turbo Hawk with the WPF on 3 blades and it fly's great on that setup with a 3900 Kv outrunner. I had the 6 blades in it and the amp's were a bit high for the 1500 3 cell packs that I fly it with. By removing 3 blades I don't get as much pull but the speed is about the same but the amp's are lower to use the packs without over heating them. I also have the Super Airliner and have also used the 6 blade set up and the 3 blades with the 3800 Kv outrunner motors. Same thing lower amp's longer flying time and no tip stall on either plane from a hand launch. I also fly the Wattage F-86 and S3A Viking on a 3 blade set up. I just removed 3 blades from my Hobby Lobby Firebird with a 3600 Kv inrunner to lower the amp's and it still fly's great. I'll take 3 blades on a WPF any time over the 6 blade set up.
Turbo Hawk is a podded install read the previous post for clarification. BTW the fan was made to be used with a speed 400 sized can motor as the motor holder is larger than all the 20mm motors I have seen, you might try taking advantage of the diameter available in raising the power/load ratios. Now if you really want to see a modification that works go with the Wemotec 505 rotor and a Het2W, this is a 500 watt setup that will be supersonic compared to the little 20mm motors your running currently. This will take a larger battery but it can be run with the new TP2200 Extremes with throttle controll, I know this works I have two of them. It wont work with the little Turbo Hawk cause you cant run the batteries but it works in larger installations.

Eric B.
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Last edited by AirX; May 02, 2007 at 08:03 AM. Reason: Added Comment
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