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Old Feb 17, 2005, 06:46 AM
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Laser cutting and good parts fit go a long way towards making something easier to build. As does good hardware like wire that doesn't break when you try to z-bend it. GP hardware these days is crap. The Chrysalis were designed as a plane for beginners as well. The wing construction is much simpler in some ways then the Spirit wing. There is no sheeting and the leading edge is such that less sanding is necesary. The guys who own DJ Aerotech give very good support and are quick with answering questions if you email to them in addition to having a great pool of information in their ask J&D section on their website. That I have read a lot of and it far surpasses anything in the Spirit instruction manual.
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Old Feb 17, 2005, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrgospod
You guys keep going back to better flying. That is not what the FIRST TIME BUILDER needs and is not what this thread is about. What a new builder needs is a good plane that he can be successful in building and flying. The Allegro-Lite is a better plane but not for a first time builder. Its not about the quality of the wood or the type of cut either; its about the thoroughness of the instructions on a good plane that a first time builder can be successful in building and flying.

John
I think it has been well established that the Spirit and the GL are easy to build and both fly well. Now, among those and a couple of others people are expressing their thought on how they fly. That's all.
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Old Feb 17, 2005, 07:11 AM
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Yesterday I was at a friendís house helping him with a BD spar and he had a GL kit instruction set from a old kit he had just built for a friend. He had an old Spirit kit instruction set also. He is a LSF level five and a long time flyer/builder and instructor. His comment is that the GL instructions donít even come close to the Spirit instructions as being best for the FIRST TIME BUILDER.

John
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Old Feb 17, 2005, 01:42 PM
T-D-P-What?
Renton, WA
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On the GL I built, the spars fit in pre-diecut holes in the ribs....it can't get very much more simple than that.
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Old Feb 17, 2005, 04:01 PM
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Simple was the key word here. GL instructions are simple not verbose with pictures and all the other things a First Time Builder needs.

John
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Old Feb 17, 2005, 05:39 PM
T-D-P-What?
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Most of us don't need instructions or pictures to be able to put things in holes
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Old Feb 17, 2005, 05:52 PM
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First builders do!

John

Key word is first!
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Old Feb 17, 2005, 07:45 PM
T-D-P-What?
Renton, WA
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Pushing all sexual innuendo aside, the wing of a Spirit is much more complex than that of a GL. There should be no argument there. However great the instructions provided are, more complex things tend to be screwed up more often than simple things.
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Old Feb 17, 2005, 07:45 PM
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I pulled out my Chrysalis kit tonight. That is what MA gave the best ratings to when it did a comparison as far as beginners kits go. The instructions are printed in plan sheets instead of a book. They are very nicely done and very detailed. I think a beginner would have no trouble putting it together at all.

If your that concerned with a beginner's ability to built their first plane they might as well build an arf.
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Old Feb 17, 2005, 08:13 PM
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Sounds like it is a good choice then. RyanPSU21 could you please quote the following similar sections that a first time builder/flyer would use from the Chrysalis manual so we all could have the benefit of it?
Thanks! John

P.S. the link earlier in the thread has all the instructions from the Spirit manual to use as a cross-reference.

Sections from the Spirit manual:
----------------------------------------------

Balance The Model
Final Hookups and Checks
Radio Set-up
Pre-Flight
AMA safety code
Trim Flights
Hi-Start Launch (with diagrams to show what to expect)
Thermal Flying (with diagrams of a typical thermal)
Pointers for Contest Flying
Slope Soaring
Slope Landing
Powered Launching (with a power pod)
Ballasting
Building Notes (to record information on your build, date, where purchased, first flight, wing weight etc. etc.)
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Old Feb 17, 2005, 08:17 PM
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You can find all that and much more in much more detail going to their website here.
http://www.djaerotech.com/dj_askjd/

FYI. I built a Spirit within the last year. I still have the manual and plans lying around.
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Old Feb 17, 2005, 08:23 PM
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One thing I hope they cover in the Chrysalis instructions is not to launch to fast or diving to fast. A friend of mine had to rip the wing apart last summer just after he had finished covering it. He needed to add braces to eliminate the bad flutter at higher speeds. He was new to building and being his First Build it was quite discouraging to him, not to mention the expense.

John
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Old Feb 17, 2005, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanPSU21
You can find all that and much more in much more detail going to their website here.
http://www.djaerotech.com/dj_askjd/

FYI. I built a Spirit within the last year. I still have the manual and plans lying around.

Iím not considering the web site. The spirit has all that is needed in the box. Complete instructions. No need to go searching for something that a First Time Builder may not know is needed or exist.

John
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Old Feb 17, 2005, 08:28 PM
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John, I think you can guess that this information is not supplied in the Chrysalis manual. Unlike Great Planes, I think the expectation with DJ Aerotech, as with most suppliers and long time fliers, is that you will get help to learn to fly your new glider not read about it in a manual. No wonder we see so many posts from new fliers about smashed up Spirit wings! Furthermore, unless the manual is available on the 'net, you could be asking Ryan to flirt with copyright issues by posting parts of the manual.

It is certainly a nice feature that the Spirit includes this extensive manual but to expect that the inclusion of this information would outweigh the significant negatives of the Spirit versus the GL, Chrysalis or other lighter weight, better handling planes is rather silly.

I am quite certain that the Spirit is a fine plane. It is just my opinion that its huge following has been based more on successful marketing, easy availability and low price than superior flying qualities. It is too bad GP doesn't have the tooling and emphasis on EPP foam planes. Then I bet we'd have a whole lot more fliers still in this hobby rather than with sticks and splinters to bring home and disappointment that this hobby is too difficult. The only way to teach yourself is with EPP. Therefore, that is the best thermal build for a beginner.
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Old Feb 17, 2005, 08:29 PM
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You've already made up your mind. If you don't want to consider other available information that is better then what you have suit yourself. This thread is becoming totally pointless.
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