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Old Mar 12, 2002, 05:10 AM
MULTI ENGINE FANACTIC
CESARNOGUEIRA's Avatar
SAO PAULO,S.P.,BRAZIL
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El Bandito (ralph Dvorák) Anyone Flying It?

In positive case, what's it's flight performance & flight time?
Wich pack, engine and fan?
What's the total cost?

THANKS A LOT !!!!
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Old Mar 12, 2002, 08:34 AM
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St. Mary, Maryland, United States
Joined Dec 1996
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Re: El Bandito (ralph Dvorák) Anyone Flying It?

Quote:
Originally posted by CESARNOGUEIRA
In positive case, what's it's flight performance & flight time?
Wich pack, engine and fan?
What's the total cost?

THANKS A LOT !!!!
Not flying yet - building. I got my kit late Wed. night last week. I've got the fuselage pretty much finished forward of the split where the fan goes in and the wing panels mounted (they are detacheable) with the LE's and tips glued on and shaped. I am waiting for the fan to come in so there is not too much more I can do until I get that.

The kit costs 459 euro's + shipping if I remember right. The DS51 3PH Schuebler fan is appr. 200 euro's + a motor and ESC - Pletti + Schultze future 55bo for the ultimate or a Hacker Master series controller + a Hacker / Kontronik / Mega motor for the economy minded. Daniel Schuebler has a website which is listed on the zones link page under commercial / europe which lists several motor / controller options.

Daniel will recommend a motor if you tell him how many cells you want to use. Choosing is not too easy - Ralf flies his with 22 cells and says it exceeds 200kph or about 125 mph in level flight (no diving). That is real enticing however I strongly recomend a 16 cell setup at least to start with. I think I am going to use a Hacker B50-13L + Schultze Future 55bo on 16 cells because I already own them! I'll run it up and see what the amp draw is of course when I get the fan - that isn't on the list of specific motor/cell combo's Daniel recommends. I say 16 cells because 16 cells @ 45 amps or so should still push the plane well over 100 mph and it will be 3/4 pound lighter.

The wing area is only 400 square inches so even on 16 cells @ 5.5 - 5.8 pounds it is not what I'd call an EDF trainer . Construction is going very well, if anyone out there has a kit and is about to start building you might want to contact me offline - cjtrue@smcm.edu- there was a minor incorrect measurement in the instructions which you should figure out before you glue the wing tubes in place but maybe not. I've let Ralf know to get it fixed but since he is incommunicado for another week or two it will take a little while. Installation of the inlet lip / inlet / plenum system was an absolute pleasure. Inlets are often one big fiddley problem but these went in in about 30 minutes flat. The parts all fit very nicely so far and the supplied small parts are all real nice - seems well worth the purchase price.
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Old Mar 12, 2002, 04:06 PM
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St. Louis, Missouri, USA
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Hello Chris -

I'm ordering an El. Bandito from Ralf too and your info is appreciated. I was kind of thinking of a 14 cell set up to use a number of existing packs on hand but I haven't really looked at what that limits me to yet when it comes to motors. I'm willing to spend the $$$ for the DS51 fan to go with it - the MidiFan seems to me like putting a VW engine into a McLaren if you know what I mean.
I'd like to hear what you think when you have a DS51 in hand as to what motor or motors would work well at 14-16 cells - both brushed and brushless.

I look forward to hearing more from you on your model! Any chance you can do a "micro" review in this thread? Inquiring minds want to know...

Fly Fast! Mark
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Old Mar 12, 2002, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Nankivil

I'd like to hear what you think when you have a DS51 in hand as to what motor or motors would work well at 14-16 cells - both brushed and brushless.
Hello Mark

Daniel publishes test graphs for his fan units using various brushed and brushless on his website at:

www.schuebeler-jets.de

The literature that comes with the fans quotes an HP220/20/A3S P6 with Kontronik 3SL 40-6-18 and 15 Panasonic 1700 SCR SPs as follows:

At initial battery volts 16.8V

Static thust 1.38N (3lb 10oz)
Current 36.2A

At medium battery voltage 15V

Static thrust 13.54N (3lb)
Current 32.5A

The website shows some hotter 16-cell motors, I think.

I wrote a couple of reviews in the following threads:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...threadid=26012

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...threadid=26985

These threads seemed to create quite a bit of excitement about the Schubi

I'm getting excited too. The 22-cell MiG 15 I'm scratch-building for my Schubi just needs final painting and it'll be ready to fly

Gordon
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Old Mar 12, 2002, 09:25 PM
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St. Mary, Maryland, United States
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Nankivil
I look forward to hearing more from you on your model! Any chance you can do a "micro" review in this thread? Inquiring minds want to know...

Fly Fast! Mark
I could probably have my arm twisted . Anybody willing to offer some web page storage for a few photo's for posting here? For some reason I am unable to upload to my web page lately.
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Old Mar 12, 2002, 09:31 PM
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I can host a couple of pics no problemo If you'd like some text added to each pic thats no problem either. I can arrange it all up as a webpage in no time.

As for the El-Bandito goes I know Mike Franz in Germany flies one with a Kontronik FUN600-15 on 23cells.
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Old Mar 12, 2002, 09:39 PM
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OK, Haldor! I'll e-mail you some pics - no text required just let me know what page they are on and I'll embed them in a post here. Feel free to cut the photo size down a bit when you upload them if your software lets you do that easily - then they won't be a screen and a half wide which loads easier
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Old Mar 12, 2002, 11:06 PM
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Ok, so here we go. The flying surfaces are all white foam cores with plywood root ribs on the wing, glass between the core and the skin, plwood subrib for the joiner tube end to secure into, spar, obeechi sheeting and predrilled holes for the main carbon tube joiner and smaller carbon tube anti rotation pins.




The fuselage is molded in 4 parts



Lots of little parts supplied - all carbon joiners, plastic sockets for the tail surfaces, glass sockets for the wings, CNC cut plywood formers and battery tray, CNC cut glass control horns, screws nuts etc. The inlets are at the top, two seperate pieces which are taped together in this pic. Each inlet is a one piece molding and joiner about a 6" plenum section at the rear.


Here all the fuselage parts are taped together and the wings sitting nearby.



The CNC cut formers are all slightly smaller than the space you install them in. The procedure for installation is to scuff up the glass fuse side, set the former in place and tack with a drop or two of CA then fillet it inplace with a mixture of epoxy resin and micro balloons. There are three formers in the fuselage - nose, fan former front, fan former rear. There is also a long plywood spine which runs from the main spar tube forward to the nose former - your tow hook is embedded in that.



The inlet lip is a vacu formed plastic item which gets secured with Ca, then the inlets and fan former are inserted from the rear, Ca'd to the lips, a light piece of glass cloth reinforces the inside inlet section to the fuse side then you fill the cracks.

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Last edited by Chris True; Mar 12, 2002 at 11:17 PM.
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Old Mar 12, 2002, 11:20 PM
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Chris-Thanks for posting the pictures . Gives a great idea what the kit looks like. Very quality looking. It must be nice to have all the little bits supplied too.

Do you have any impressions on the instructions? Probably as complete as the kit is.

If the economy in Reno hadn't taken a dump after Sept 11th, I would have had an El Bandito on order too. But things are getting better, so maybe this summer I second the motion for a mini review on this forum as you get things together.

Gordon
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Old Mar 13, 2002, 07:40 AM
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The instructions are very well illustrated with high resolution pictures - it comes on a CD and the main english document with the pics is 74mb! There is also a german version of course plus some logo's if you want to cut them out of sticky film and 3 video's.

Construction wise all the procedures so far were perfectly understandable except for the wing attachement - I did it a little different and have written up my procedure for the review and I'll send it back to Ralf if he wants to include it as an alternate method. I understood the way he was going about it, it just didn't seem the best/easiest way to me. The approach I am taking for the review is to not do a step by step construction article. If the kit instructions are perfectly clear I'll say to follow those and here is a pic or two - if I did it a little different I'll give detailed instructions on that. So far just the wing tube mounting was done differently and looking at the rest of the steps I doubt there will be any other significant changes. The method for joining the frear and front fusealge sections for instance is pretty slick - gotta wait for the fan first though...
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Old Mar 13, 2002, 03:54 PM
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St. Louis, Missouri, USA
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Greetings -

Thanks Gordon and thanks Chris for the info and pics. I now need to clean drool off of the keyboard... I am sure looking forward to ordering and receiving one!

By chance did anyone see the F9F Panther that Rhem Jorg had at the Aspach 2001 meet? Same power system that is being discussed here. Check it out in James Frolik's coverage of Aspach 2001 Part II article. I feel more $$$ slippng out of my wallet soon...... I wonder if DS51 fans are cheaper by the pair


Fly Fast! Mark
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Old Mar 17, 2002, 09:28 PM
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Conitinuing with the phot assembly essay:

The wings are held on by a main carbon joiner and a forward carbon anti-rotation pin:



Same for the tail surfaces:



The wings are routed out for the aileron hinge, a layer of cloth under the top surfaces serves as a skin hinge, the buider needs to make the end cuts and cut out the servo pocket:



Here is the rear fuselage section with all the tail surfaces attached:



The rudder post is secured to the fuse with a 3mm diameter setscrew, once the fuse is painted this will pretty much dissappear:



Progress to date:



Tonight I will finish covering the flying surfaces in Ultracoat then the only things left are radio installation and fan installation whenever that comes .
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Last edited by Chris True; Mar 18, 2002 at 09:01 PM.
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