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Old Jan 19, 2005, 08:27 PM
Dances With The Wind
Brian Courtice's Avatar
United States, FL, Punta Gorda
Joined May 2002
6,513 Posts
Future Wingeron?

I've been doing a lot of playing around with CAD ideas lately.

Here's my rough concept for a 60" wingeron. I'm planning around a set of winch doc cams and carbon bagged wings.

My goal is to try to scratch build something that looks and flys as good as a Mach 1.

My CAD skills are still poor but improving. The fuse wont have the wierd bulge at the back of the tailboom that shows in the side view. The vertical fin is very rough looking too. The fuse is sorta close, but not quite the shape I'm looking for. The cool thing about 3D CAD is you can look at the plane from all angles before you build it.
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Old Jan 19, 2005, 08:40 PM
If its blown Im slop'n
1 zipper's Avatar
Sydney Australia
Joined May 2004
402 Posts
Looks cool Brian after you massage the fuse & master the 3D cad it will be sensational.



Richard.
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Old Jan 19, 2005, 08:42 PM
Life-abstract=conformity
S.F. Bay Area
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A cross tail Xica!
Way Cool!
Skies
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Old Jan 20, 2005, 09:03 AM
No fuse too fat
slopeiron's Avatar
USA, CA, Redondo Beach
Joined Apr 2002
3,874 Posts
Sure looks nice and slippery, Brian. Should be a nice flying plane.

So what program are you using?

Russ.
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Old Jan 20, 2005, 10:01 AM
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Central California
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That is just lovely. No V-tail version?
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Old Jan 20, 2005, 10:39 AM
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Southern California
Joined Sep 2003
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Looks very cool--- have you seen one of Ken Sturh's Rotors? Spitting image-- those were very fast pitcheron/wingeron planes with good high speed performance and energy retention. I would suggest a 6062 -- would be very fast as a wingeron and not have to carry a high wingloading to do so. Get on it bro!!! I've got something to fly with it!!
Timmig
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Old Jan 20, 2005, 02:46 PM
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terry.cx's Avatar
Delaware
Joined Aug 2004
412 Posts
Not quite a Rotor. The back of the fuse would be thinner. It looks good though. I'm building a Rotor now. I was trying to deceide whether to post pictures or not.
Terry
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Old Jan 20, 2005, 06:24 PM
Dances With The Wind
Brian Courtice's Avatar
United States, FL, Punta Gorda
Joined May 2002
6,513 Posts
BTW: I came up with a name; how does "Ultron" sound. (Short for Ultimate Wingeron).

I don't think the Ultron looks like Ken Sthur's Rotor or Xica designs. Ken's planes had the high point of the fuse further forward, and the curves in ken's planes were "swoopier". Mostly, I was just trying to make sure the Ultron doesn't look like a Mach 1.

The Mach 1 is a much more closely related species of bird. The areas and moments of the Ultron are very similar to the Mach 1. I figure that if it worked for Joe Cormier, it oughta work for me!

I think a wingeron will make a great design for me to hone my composite construction techniques. The fuse is simple because there's no wing saddle or fillets to worry about. The wings are simple too, because you dont have to worry about kevlar hinges and aileron cut-outs. Hey, I figure if Reed and Target can do it, so can I!

I probably wont start on this project until after the Slope Fest in May, so I have lots of time to refine the design and to prepare my shop for some composite work.

Tim: I'm definately planning to use a 6062, slightly thinned. It should rip!
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Last edited by Brian Courtice; Jan 20, 2005 at 06:28 PM.
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Old Jan 21, 2005, 10:33 AM
Current project: Electrolyte
pdawg's Avatar
United States, OH, Dayton
Joined Apr 2004
5,471 Posts
AIRFOILS????

What does a "6062" look like? How do airfoils on wingerons differ from conventional wings with ailerons?

Bret
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Old Jan 21, 2005, 06:18 PM
Dances With The Wind
Brian Courtice's Avatar
United States, FL, Punta Gorda
Joined May 2002
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Wingerons don't need specialised airfoils.

The S6062 is a good airfoil to choose because it is fast and works well on planes with relatively light wing loadings. It's a popular airfoil for wingerons and 60" racer type planes. It works well over a broad range of speeds and in any winds from light to heavy.

When winds are really cranking it's hard to beat the RG-14 on a plane with a very heavy wing loading. The Rg-14 carries speed and energy very, very well, but needs good wind and a heavy load to really get up on step.

I've already got lots of planes with rg-14's, so I want the Ultron to be a good plane to really carve up some sky on a more moderate wind day.

Here's what the S6062 looks like. One is stock (8% thick), the other is thinned to 7%.
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Old Jan 21, 2005, 07:41 PM
Vitruvian JART
Reed's Avatar
San Francisco
Joined Mar 2003
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Great project, Brian. FWIW, the Mach 1 wings are triple-tapered and have a stock 6062 root with a thinned tip. I could get some measurements off of my wings if you want them - I don't think Joe would mind since you're not going into the business.
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Old Jan 21, 2005, 08:51 PM
Dances With The Wind
Brian Courtice's Avatar
United States, FL, Punta Gorda
Joined May 2002
6,513 Posts
Thanks Reed. I'm planning on single taper, mostly because it's easier. I also want to have a different look than the Mach 1. I'm trying for similar performance, but I don't want a clone.

I thought the Mach 1 airfoil was thinned all over. 8% just looks fat to me!Maybe I've been flying too many PSS type planes...
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Old Jan 21, 2005, 11:55 PM
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Carlski's Avatar
Corona, CA.
Joined Sep 2003
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Looking good Brian. It should be a cool project. If I could get Robert at CSD to mold the "Rebel" wingeron TFLG designed (Plug is complete), we would be in business.

Carl
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Old Jan 22, 2005, 12:20 AM
Challenge is rewarding
djklein21's Avatar
San Diego, CA
Joined Aug 2004
5,525 Posts
Very cool, I wanna do a wingeron this summer as my first scratch build composite. I cut some foam last night for another project and am cutting my teath with bagging next week. I hope you do a build thread so we can all follow along.

Speaking of threads, were is Joe Manor and his dynamic?
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Old Jan 22, 2005, 01:19 AM
Vitruvian JART
Reed's Avatar
San Francisco
Joined Mar 2003
5,019 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Courtice
Thanks Reed. I'm planning on single taper, mostly because it's easier. I also want to have a different look than the Mach 1. I'm trying for similar performance, but I don't want a clone.

I thought the Mach 1 airfoil was thinned all over. 8% just looks fat to me!Maybe I've been flying too many PSS type planes...
Yeah, I get the single-taper ease of cutting thing. That's about my speed, too.

Joe told me it was a standard 6062 at the root. The original Mach 1 wings (which I have) weren't thinned much at the tip but the newer ones are. Joe had me test a set of wings that had the thinner tips - I liked them and when I sent the plane back to him he said he liked them as well.

These days I'm going the other direction with airfoils. Pretty sure my next project will have an 8.5% or 9% MH45 with a relatively light wingloading (15oz or so).
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