Suggested improvements for next Gen BR? - Page 4

ukgroucho · Jan 18, 2005, 03:18 PM

Fotta,

Bring it ON.

My friend in Washington DC got hooked on my BR when he was passing thru the UK and visited me. He is itching for the 'upgrade' .. he's not ready to do the 'full' RC micro heli thing (which I do) but he'd love something which moves the game on a bit. I suspect he is not alone.

GBX · Jan 18, 2005, 07:45 PM

For added motor cooling add fins to gears or pulleys( to act as a fan ) to provide air flow to heat sinks on motors

LTChip · Jan 21, 2005, 06:42 PM

So which of these are the BR guys going to bite on?

leemar · Jan 22, 2005, 08:11 PM

i totally agree with all improvement suggestions. i would like to see improvement markings listed on the box.if you could make all the improvements it would be a step closer to being in the hobby rc range,pricerange also. of which i wouldnt mind paying for.this is a awsome little heli. thanks for the invention petter.

paulwt · Feb 02, 2005, 11:45 AM

Lots of great suggestions. But be careful with the price point. The brilliant thing about the BR is that I can fly an indoor helicopter for £50. Not only that, but is also v.easy to do. If I completely muck it up I can always buy another. Not so easy if it has cost me £200.

Maybe the absolute essential is a better motor with carbon brushes, that would allow everyone to keep flying for a bit longer.

The other suggestions may be better being incorporated into a "Pro" version. Hence, allowing you to maintain the price point of the basic version, but allowing folks to upgrade to the more expensive once they are hooked. This approach seems to have been well used by Picolo's etc.

It would be a shame if you hooked all these folks into the helicopter world only to see them migrate to someone else's product when they looked to upgrade. I am already thinking about how to jusify an XRB

webcrawler · Feb 03, 2005, 12:05 AM

2 tail rotors at 45* from length - 1 on either side, independent, and a little trackball to control them. I think this would provide forward/back and left/right pitch. Electronics seem complicated, but I'm sure, doable.

Bluethunder · Feb 03, 2005, 04:56 PM

To me, simply make it more durable. I paid close to 95 bucks including shipping and all and the rotor blades where braking in the first day. I know it is frail because of the wight issue, and I agree, but even if it took a better motor to make it more stronger and durable to withstand the weight of the new parts, it still is an awsome concept to be able to fly it in the house. For that I would be willing to even pay up to 150 bucks, but if it lasted longer, even if it had to be heavier.

This little thing is super fun, but very extremely frail.
Oh, another thing would be to have air intakes on the front and sides of the body casing to provide more cooling to the motors.

BT

jtyson · Feb 03, 2005, 05:23 PM

How about a more "robust" version similar to Peter's Mosquito? One that has a 30 min. flight time and can carry a payload?

skip63 · Feb 04, 2005, 01:14 AM

Make "ALL" parts available for repair. There are not that many parts that require replacing.
Blades (Available) :>)
Not available: Main motors, & Tail rotor blade/motor
It's a great toy. Why not make money on the parts?
If you can make blades available for after market why not the other parts at a competitive price? Especially when you have a custom designed motor.
Thats the weak link in the whole system. Offer the motors ....please

paulwt · Feb 04, 2005, 06:05 AM

How about replacing the tail motor with a main motor turning all the time to generate lift, then wrap a chinook (CH47) body around the whole lot. Actually I guess you would need two motor and blades to counteract the torque reaction. So it would be basically two BR's hooked together with a Chinook body and some clever circuitry to balance the thrust between the two ends to allow for fore and aft pitching.

(As an aside for all those folks scaring their cats. Dogs are far more intelligent, I just have to pick the BR up and put it in the middle of the floor and the dog gets up and retires to the kitchen before I even start the motor.)

Radioguy · Feb 04, 2005, 09:08 AM

Hi Frank:

The best suggestion I can offer is to improve the quality control of the product. I bought a purple-bodied 49 Mhz unit from Draganfly in Saskatoon and the unit had been shipped from the factory with the switch in the "on" position and the charge socket on the unit was damaged by someone plugging in the connector improperly ... bending the contacts on both connector and socket.....which I managed to repair and get a few flights in ... enough to know I'm going to love this "toy" a lot.

Although it flew after a full charge cycle, a premature loss of power caused me to hit an obstruction which damaged a rotor. I ended up dealing with "Andrea" at ITC on the phone about the problem and it was returned as a defective unit for replacement. She was most pleasant and helpful.

I ordered a spare set of rotors at the same time, as I could see it would be a good move to have a spare set on the shelf as a precaution. The "new" BR arrived a couple of weeks later ( yesterday) and I was really looking forward to flying it last evening.

Regrettably, the battery in this one seems to be damaged, or a very old first generation battery. It would only fly for about 20 seconds in the "partial charge out of the box" which surprised me a little and I put it on the charger which gave indications of a normal charge taking place. That flight lasted maybe 10 seconds before the power faded and it wouldn't lift off.

I tried another charge .... for about an hour. The LED never stopped flashing but It tried it anyway ... BR wouldn't lift off the floor.

Later today, I'll contact Andrea again but this is pretty frustrating for me and I'm sure it will be bad news for ITC to hear of the problem too. The time interval and cost of shipping is getting to be a bit of a bear!

On January 5th I placed my order for the BR and since that time I've only managed to get in about 6 to 8 flights maybe, and its due to QC issues.

This is sad, as it is such a great idea and a super-fun toy which will eventually provide a lot of enjoyment to many people.

Update a few hours later ... spoke to Andrea who was most helpful. I'll be sending this one back and they will test fly the next one they send out to me and make sure it performs the way it should and is not shipped with the switch left on. Very pleasant to deal with, and I'm sure this must be even more frustrating for the company that it is for me.

All the best folks,
Lee Smith

skip63 · Feb 04, 2005, 05:02 PM

Lee I got my first one with the switch in the on position. Get a new Kokam battery.
I was only getting 20 seconds of flight. Now I get12 minutes now.

Fotta · Feb 04, 2005, 05:21 PM

Hi Lee - Yep, very frustrating.

omdunor · Feb 06, 2005, 01:00 PM

funny how you guys pay so low,here in quebec/canada the BR is sold for $99.00 cad,and the company is in ontario/canada...anyway,when i received mine ,a month ago,the lower main rotor ring was snapped so i made a small aluminium sleeve and fixed it,then wrapped an equivalent weight sleeve on opposite side of the ring for balance.i tried it out to empty the lipo cell...then tried to charge it ...no go,after examining it i noticed that a connection was missing between the charging plug and the lipo cell wire(+) ,so i soldered one on...problem solved.
during a period of 3 days i flew it a dozen times with an average of 10 minutes flight,but EVERYTIME i would hit something(wall,couch or even the floor a few times)something would break in the main rotors, it got broken up to the point it could not be fixed anymore(seesaw broke at different places 4 times)...so i called the company to buy a set of main rotors,the lady i spoke to(i told her what i just told you)was nice enough to send me the new rotors free of charge.
Believe it or not,the ring(again on the lower rotor)was not broken but unglued from it's copper sleeve...not a major issue since it was easy to fix but kind of ironic tough(by the way,are the white outer rings stronger?),that was a week ago,i put another 2 to 3 hours of flight into it when my left engine (lower rotor,yes not the upper like most people)died,after opening it up i found out 1 brush was totalled,so i replaced it and it is working fine again altough i am about to need new main rotors...by the way for replacement motors i found out i could fit my Kyosho caliber m24 tail rotor motor on my br for they are of identical size but of a much better quality on my Schweizer 300(m24)i have'nt check for prices yet tough.
In resume,once modified it flies really good,i do what i want with it ,but as far as durability goes unfortunately many parts are of very low quality and for a hundred bucks it certainly is NOT a toy for children because of the skills required to keep it in running order,i am in my forty's and an old modelist and most of my close friend would already have put this toy on a shelf unable to have it work after only a few flights...with luck.
To me it is a real cool toy ,but i can imagine the frustration of someone expecting a maintenance free r/c toy...(http://www.gpmd.com/cgi-bin/wgpprt100p?&I=KYOE07**) stock number;KYOG 1901,mfr number;70502, third from bottom of the list;Kyosho S Power Motor Tail Rotor M24

paulwt · Feb 07, 2005, 03:56 AM

Can I just clarrify before I get too excited. Can the tail rotor be used as a direct replacement for a BR main motor? No other mods needed. All other options so far involve brush swaps. If so you could have the answer to everyones problems. Although pricey (around $14) if the quality is better and it lasts I will be placing an order.

Feb 02, 2005, 11:45 AM	#50
paulwt Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 33	But watch the price point Lots of great suggestions. But be careful with the price point. The brilliant thing about the BR is that I can fly an indoor helicopter for £50. Not only that, but is also v.easy to do. If I completely muck it up I can always buy another. Not so easy if it has cost me £200. Maybe the absolute essential is a better motor with carbon brushes, that would allow everyone to keep flying for a bit longer. The other suggestions may be better being incorporated into a "Pro" version. Hence, allowing you to maintain the price point of the basic version, but allowing folks to upgrade to the more expensive once they are hooked. This approach seems to have been well used by Picolo's etc. It would be a shame if you hooked all these folks into the helicopter world only to see them migrate to someone else's product when they looked to upgrade. I am already thinking about how to jusify an XRB

Feb 04, 2005, 06:05 AM	#55
paulwt Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 33	Chinook How about replacing the tail motor with a main motor turning all the time to generate lift, then wrap a chinook (CH47) body around the whole lot. Actually I guess you would need two motor and blades to counteract the torque reaction. So it would be basically two BR's hooked together with a Chinook body and some clever circuitry to balance the thrust between the two ends to allow for fore and aft pitching. (As an aside for all those folks scaring their cats. Dogs are far more intelligent, I just have to pick the BR up and put it in the middle of the floor and the dog gets up and retires to the kitchen before I even start the motor.)

Feb 04, 2005, 09:08 AM	#56
Radioguy Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winnipeg Intl, Canada Posts: 633	Hi Frank: The best suggestion I can offer is to improve the quality control of the product. I bought a purple-bodied 49 Mhz unit from Draganfly in Saskatoon and the unit had been shipped from the factory with the switch in the "on" position and the charge socket on the unit was damaged by someone plugging in the connector improperly ... bending the contacts on both connector and socket.....which I managed to repair and get a few flights in ... enough to know I'm going to love this "toy" a lot. Although it flew after a full charge cycle, a premature loss of power caused me to hit an obstruction which damaged a rotor. I ended up dealing with "Andrea" at ITC on the phone about the problem and it was returned as a defective unit for replacement. She was most pleasant and helpful. I ordered a spare set of rotors at the same time, as I could see it would be a good move to have a spare set on the shelf as a precaution. The "new" BR arrived a couple of weeks later ( yesterday) and I was really looking forward to flying it last evening. Regrettably, the battery in this one seems to be damaged, or a very old first generation battery. It would only fly for about 20 seconds in the "partial charge out of the box" which surprised me a little and I put it on the charger which gave indications of a normal charge taking place. That flight lasted maybe 10 seconds before the power faded and it wouldn't lift off. I tried another charge .... for about an hour. The LED never stopped flashing but It tried it anyway ... BR wouldn't lift off the floor. Later today, I'll contact Andrea again but this is pretty frustrating for me and I'm sure it will be bad news for ITC to hear of the problem too. The time interval and cost of shipping is getting to be a bit of a bear! On January 5th I placed my order for the BR and since that time I've only managed to get in about 6 to 8 flights maybe, and its due to QC issues. This is sad, as it is such a great idea and a super-fun toy which will eventually provide a lot of enjoyment to many people. Update a few hours later ... spoke to Andrea who was most helpful. I'll be sending this one back and they will test fly the next one they send out to me and make sure it performs the way it should and is not shipped with the switch left on. Very pleasant to deal with, and I'm sure this must be even more frustrating for the company that it is for me. All the best folks, Lee Smith Last edited by Lee Smith; Feb 04, 2005 at 01:50 PM.

Feb 06, 2005, 01:00 PM	#59
omdunor R/C unconditionnal Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: cote nord/quebec/canada Posts: 284	complicated toy? funny how you guys pay so low,here in quebec/canada the BR is sold for $99.00 cad,and the company is in ontario/canada...anyway,when i received mine ,a month ago,the lower main rotor ring was snapped so i made a small aluminium sleeve and fixed it,then wrapped an equivalent weight sleeve on opposite side of the ring for balance.i tried it out to empty the lipo cell...then tried to charge it ...no go,after examining it i noticed that a connection was missing between the charging plug and the lipo cell wire(+) ,so i soldered one on...problem solved. during a period of 3 days i flew it a dozen times with an average of 10 minutes flight,but EVERYTIME i would hit something(wall,couch or even the floor a few times)something would break in the main rotors, it got broken up to the point it could not be fixed anymore(seesaw broke at different places 4 times)...so i called the company to buy a set of main rotors,the lady i spoke to(i told her what i just told you)was nice enough to send me the new rotors free of charge. Believe it or not,the ring(again on the lower rotor)was not broken but unglued from it's copper sleeve...not a major issue since it was easy to fix but kind of ironic tough(by the way,are the white outer rings stronger?),that was a week ago,i put another 2 to 3 hours of flight into it when my left engine (lower rotor,yes not the upper like most people)died,after opening it up i found out 1 brush was totalled,so i replaced it and it is working fine again altough i am about to need new main rotors...by the way for replacement motors i found out i could fit my Kyosho caliber m24 tail rotor motor on my br for they are of identical size but of a much better quality on my Schweizer 300(m24)i have'nt check for prices yet tough. In resume,once modified it flies really good,i do what i want with it ,but as far as durability goes unfortunately many parts are of very low quality and for a hundred bucks it certainly is NOT a toy for children because of the skills required to keep it in running order,i am in my forty's and an old modelist and most of my close friend would already have put this toy on a shelf unable to have it work after only a few flights...with luck. To me it is a real cool toy ,but i can imagine the frustration of someone expecting a maintenance free r/c toy...(http://www.gpmd.com/cgi-bin/wgpprt100p?&I=KYOE07*) stock number;KYOG 1901,mfr number;70502, third from bottom of the list;Kyosho S Power Motor Tail Rotor M24 Last edited by omdunor; Feb 06, 2005 at 01:07 PM.*

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Jan 18, 2005, 03:18 PM	#46
ukgroucho Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Stratford upon Avon Posts: 2,448	Fotta, Bring it ON. My friend in Washington DC got hooked on my BR when he was passing thru the UK and visited me. He is itching for the 'upgrade' .. he's not ready to do the 'full' RC micro heli thing (which I do) but he'd love something which moves the game on a bit. I suspect he is not alone.

Jan 18, 2005, 07:45 PM	#47
GBX Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Illinois Posts: 237	For added motor cooling add fins to gears or pulleys( to act as a fan ) to provide air flow to heat sinks on motors

Jan 21, 2005, 06:42 PM	#48
LTChip Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Helena, MT Posts: 2,887	So which of these are the BR guys going to bite on?

Jan 22, 2005, 08:11 PM	#49
leemar Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: columbus ohio Posts: 13	i totally agree with all improvement suggestions. i would like to see improvement markings listed on the box.if you could make all the improvements it would be a step closer to being in the hobby rc range,pricerange also. of which i wouldnt mind paying for.this is a awsome little heli. thanks for the invention petter.

Feb 03, 2005, 12:05 AM	#51
webcrawler NooB Crash Expert Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 78	2 tail rotors at 45* from length - 1 on either side, independent, and a little trackball to control them. I think this would provide forward/back and left/right pitch. Electronics seem complicated, but I'm sure, doable.

Feb 03, 2005, 04:56 PM	#52
Bluethunder Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 21	To me, simply make it more durable. I paid close to 95 bucks including shipping and all and the rotor blades where braking in the first day. I know it is frail because of the wight issue, and I agree, but even if it took a better motor to make it more stronger and durable to withstand the weight of the new parts, it still is an awsome concept to be able to fly it in the house. For that I would be willing to even pay up to 150 bucks, but if it lasted longer, even if it had to be heavier. This little thing is super fun, but very extremely frail. Oh, another thing would be to have air intakes on the front and sides of the body casing to provide more cooling to the motors. BT

Feb 03, 2005, 05:23 PM	#53
jtyson Bladerunner Nut Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, Kentucky USA Posts: 106	How about a more "robust" version similar to Peter's Mosquito? One that has a 30 min. flight time and can carry a payload?

Feb 04, 2005, 01:14 AM	#54
skip63 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 653	Make "ALL" parts available for repair. There are not that many parts that require replacing. Blades (Available) :>) Not available: Main motors, & Tail rotor blade/motor It's a great toy. Why not make money on the parts? If you can make blades available for after market why not the other parts at a competitive price? Especially when you have a custom designed motor. Thats the weak link in the whole system. Offer the motors ....please

Feb 04, 2005, 05:02 PM	#57
skip63 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Phoenix, Arizona Posts: 653	Lee I got my first one with the switch in the on position. Get a new Kokam battery. I was only getting 20 seconds of flight. Now I get12 minutes now.

Feb 04, 2005, 05:21 PM	#58
Fotta Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 155	Hi Lee - Yep, very frustrating.

Feb 07, 2005, 03:56 AM	#60
paulwt Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 33	Can I just clarrify before I get too excited. Can the tail rotor be used as a direct replacement for a BR main motor? No other mods needed. All other options so far involve brush swaps. If so you could have the answer to everyones problems. Although pricey (around $14) if the quality is better and it lasts I will be placing an order.