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Old Jan 12, 2005, 10:36 AM
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Li-Ionman's Avatar
Germany
Joined Jan 2005
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SONY US18650S STG ENERGYTEC Information

Hello all,

i have thousands of Sony US18650S STG ENERGYTEC

3.7 Volt 1300 - 1400Mah Lithium Ion Rechargeable.
Lightweight, only about 39 grams per cell.
Very good power / weight ratio.
Dimension 1 cell 18mmx65mm.
Dimensioen 8 cell pack 130x110x19mm


Can be used in its pack “4S2P“ or quickly disassembled to allow multiple cells to be wired in any series or parallel configurations to make packs of any voltage and current capability.

Cells are not explosiv and they will not burning like Lipos.
A cell with 97 degrees temperature wasnt explode, tested.
The five seconds limit to get hot fingers are at 54 degrees.
There is a discharge limiting an short circuit includet also.
These cell has a safety aluminium cup like NiMH and NiCd.


THESE CELLs ARE SAFE !!! BUT Li-poly cells are dangerous, burning, only a thin foil on it.


You can charge it easy at 1 or 2 ampere.
Discharge constant 3A or under alternating current 2-6A in a airplane is not a problem.
Lower discharge currend gives you more livetime.

Charging is very simple, you need only a loader with exact adjustable 4,2 volt (4,25 maximum) and 1 or 2 amperes. After 2,5 hours the battery ist full. After 2 hours you get more than 90%

Take a REGULATED DC POWER SUPPLY with Coarse and fine control for voltage output.
Or solder a LM317 chip with a resistor and poti and build your own regulated dc power supply.
You can ask me for circuit diagramms and more. To mesure the 4,2 volt take digital multimeter.



Two cells in serial you need 8,4 volt to charge, three cells in serial 12,6 volt and so on.
Two cells parallel you can load with up to 4 ampere, three cells then 6 ampere and so on.
A pack with 4S2P you have to load with dc exact 16,8 (17v max.) volt and up to max. 4 amps.

Discharge each cell down to 2,5 volt should be the absolute limit.
But 2,7 - 3 volt will give you dopple or much more cycle live up to 1000 or thousands of cycles.
On high discharge rates you dont get the full 1,3Ah. Voltage brackes down. Same as other Cells.


When i can help, i will send you each cell 3.5$ + shipping. Paying with paypal.

Shipping to US, is a little expensive.
Best ist to buy some more cells and sell them again to minimize shipping cost.

One cell is ~39 gramm.
8 cells in the original plastic case is 425 gramms.
Shipping with DHL (no insurance) to US is:
Up to 5kg 45$ - 88 cells, 11x8 possible. Shipping is 51ct each cell.
Up to 10kg 60$ - 168 cells, 21x8 possible. Shipping is 36ct each cell.
Up to 20kg 90$ - 344 cells, 43x8 possible. Shipping is 26ct each cell.
Maximum dimensions are 60x60x120cm.
+7$ for 700$ insurance.
+1,4$ for any 140$ higher insurance.
Also 1400$ insurance are 7$+1,4$+1,4$+1,4$+1,4$
Parcel needs ~10 days.
Depends on how long your custom need to check.


Ist not a trick, ist a SONY.

Build for Compaq Armada Laptops.
Used for EVs like the new version t-zero, faster then a Porsche.
Best motor for slowflyers with this cells (3S2P) is Kontronik Dancer Pro up to 2 kg Airplanes.

One 8 cell pack with a Hella ballast and a Philips D2S 35 watt Xenon bulb gives 5 times more light to your mountainbike on downhill at night then any “H” bulb. You get 3200 lumen for 54 minutes.

If you have any question please feel free to ask me.



Best regards


Mike




SCOTT ME UP BEAMY
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Old Jan 20, 2005, 11:55 AM
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Upstate New York
Joined Jul 2004
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So as I understand it, these cells can be end-to-end soldered, and wires or braids can be soldered to the ends as well? Is that right?

Also, will the Great Plains Triton charge these? It charges "Li-ion" batteries of the standard variety.

Will these batteries come with manufacturer information on charging/discharging and care and use? Or will you be providing this info? And if so, where are you getting it?

Depending on the answers to these questions and on the number of friends I can rope in, I would be interested in getting on the order of 50-80 cells.

Thanks and please let me know.

-Jim Sexton
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Old Jan 20, 2005, 12:11 PM
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North Texas
Joined Nov 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Li-Ionman
Cells are not explosiv and they will not burning like Lipos.
A cell with 97 degrees temperature wasnt explode, tested.
The five seconds limit to get hot fingers are at 54 degrees.
There is a discharge limiting an short circuit includet also.
These cell has a safety aluminium cup like NiMH and NiCd.


THESE CELLs ARE SAFE !!! BUT Li-poly cells are dangerous, burning, only a thin foil on it.

SCOTT ME UP BEAMY
1. Actually Li-Ion cells like the US18650 can also explode. They are hemetically sealed and will burst if overcharged. If they burst they will burn exactly as LiPolys will as they are the same chemistry. It's only the safety circuit that came with the cellphone pack that prevents this from happening.

2. 97 degrees is nice, but what makes cells explode is overcharging or overdischarging.

3. The cells are rated for 2C at the most By Sony. That means the max current draw is 2 X 1400 = 2800 mA. Good for Lite Sticks and IPS motors but not for anything like a 280 or bigger.

-- Val
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Old Jan 20, 2005, 03:15 PM
Random Flier
Oxford (UK) and Mtn View CA (USA)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madsci_guy
1. Actually Li-Ion cells like the US18650 can also explode. They are hemetically sealed and will burst if overcharged. If they burst they will burn exactly as LiPolys will as they are the same chemistry. It's only the safety circuit that came with the cellphone pack that prevents this from happening.
As I understand it, most 18650 cells have a TPC (sorry - Dave corrected me - PTC) (sort of chemical fuse) that stops discharge above safe levels. So probably the only failure mode is an overcharge.

Shouldn't this thread be in the For Sale column?
[As it isn't, I'll take the opportunity to remind anyone interested in these cells that they can also be acquired, usually gratis, from your local big-company IT department, packed in notebook battery packs, usually with 1 or 2 of 8 cells that don't work]
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Last edited by isvana; Jan 21, 2005 at 04:44 AM. Reason: PTC, TPC, oops
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Old Jan 20, 2005, 04:35 PM
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Walled Lake, MI, USA
Joined Feb 2000
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Cylindrical 18650 Li-ions have two internal safety devices that LiPos do not have -- a positive temperature coefficient (PTC) device (polyfuse) that reacts to temperature elevation by reducing current flow, and a pressure relief valve to release excessive pressures that can build up inside the cell.

However, it is still possible for an 18650 Li-ion to enter a thermal runaway condition under certain circumstances. So 18650 Li-ions are not 100% safe, and should be treated with the same respect as LiPos.
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Old Jan 20, 2005, 05:16 PM
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http://www.batteriesdigest.com/batt_safe_40.htm

Sandia National Laboratories is detailing the safety aspects of 18650 Lithium-ion cell’s thermal runaway with accelerating rate calorimetry (See BD# 43, 1-4.) Commercial Sony Lithium cobalt oxide cells with coke anodes were compared to two other experimental 18650 type cells with different ratios of lithium nickel cobalt cathodes, electrolytes and anodes. The Sony cells began onset of self generated heating at 80 0C. Thermal runaway initiates from the decomposition of the anode SEI layer producing “a strong exothermic decomposition reaction...which can result in a rapid disassembly of the cells.” The reader can choose whether “rapid disassembly” means explosion or not.
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Old Jan 29, 2005, 02:23 AM
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Joined Nov 2004
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Got a few of these cells today....

I had a friend donate me four of these cells from a sony laptop battery. I pried the pack open and damaged the charging circuit in the process. Doh!

My friend says that the battery slowly died on him -- meaning recharge function deteriorated to the point that they won't recharge.

1. what are the chances one among four (or any) of these cells are still good and how'd you measure that? By measuring the resistance??

Mine are labeled Sony Fukushima STG US18650GR (the cells are green -- maybe the GR designation is what that is-- and weigh 43 grams each -- they have a 3.7v 1600 MaH rating but I guess that's optimistic). A few more notes after hunting around on the net.

2. These cells are the building blocks for many Sony-made battery packs whether for laptops, Mac ibooks or even the Camcorder pack NP-950. 930 etc. for the little Sony MiniDV/8mm camcorders. They're surfacing all over the Net apparently. There is also a similarly sized Panasonic equivalent...

3. Having a heavy steel jacket means they're more rugged but a couple of them weigh like three ounces. For 7.4v and 3200 MaH thats sort of porky. The discharge rate (2c) isn't absolutely something to write home either. Are we talking slowstick territory here or even worse?

4. Mine came with soldered tabs. Being a newbie could any kind soul point me to how to solder a couple of these together? I have the new TP LiPoly charger and wondering if that's a good unit to charge these at 1300 ma 7.4v, link here,

http://www.allerc.com/product_info.php?products_id=1411
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Old Jun 29, 2005, 08:33 AM
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I am interested

Hi Li-Inoman,

do you still sell these batteries? I would like to buy some.

Regards,
Rolf
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Old Jul 20, 2005, 08:57 AM
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Joined Jun 2005
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Hi Mr. Li-Inoman,

I am still interested in the batteries, I have you send 1 time more an e-mail but I don't hear anything from you.

I am looking for an 8 cell pack.

please let me know something.

Best Regards,

Willem van Geest
geestpost@hotmail.com
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Old Jul 20, 2005, 09:35 PM
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18650 During over charge

This is how an 18650 reacts in thermal runaway.
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Old Jul 21, 2005, 06:30 AM
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Oxford (UK) and Mtn View CA (USA)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electroman
This is how an 18650 reacts in thermal runaway.
Thats interesting. Care to share the details or a comparative LiPo test in the same situation? Looks like an "overcharge" scenario, from the battery in the background.

Hopefully anyone building their own packs from recycled or new 18650 cells is aware of the LiPo/LiIon issues and takes precautions...
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Old Jul 21, 2005, 07:04 PM
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Li Po destruction

Quote:
Originally Posted by isvana
Thats interesting. Care to share the details or a comparative LiPo test in the same situation? Looks like an "overcharge" scenario, from the battery in the background.

Hopefully anyone building their own packs from recycled or new 18650 cells is aware of the LiPo/LiIon issues and takes precautions...

Sorry, Isvana, I should have put that on last night. See attached. CAUTION: the KOK 2100 shown is a 4th generation Kokam cell that can sustain up to 18.5V over charge without igniting. The cell iss till ruined because it swells, eventually vents (after about 1.5 minutes at 12.6V when fully charged) Lots of smoke. Lots of stink. But, no ball of fire. Older Kokams and other manufacturers cells will vent and ignite at about 6.5V over charge and they can but do not always produce a flash of fire kind of like a nasty flashbulb. We recommend that any Li Po or Li Ion be housed in a protective enclosure when charging. Some people have used the 18650 and other Li Ions with the PCM by-passed. We have all been lucky that no one was seriously hurt.
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Old Jul 21, 2005, 08:56 PM
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Here's the video to watch if you want to see a large pack of Li-ions going into a thermal runaway condition:

http://www.valence.com/SafetyVideo.asp
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 08:33 AM
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Electroman - good demo of safer cells - thanks!
Dave - some good plumes of fire in that video. However, the Sapphions appear to act more like shotgun cartridges, so it looks like you choose fire or thunder.

As the 18650 cells are quite heavy compared to LiPos, and heavy per C rating compared to NiMH, I've not recently deployed any. I'm wondering whether a 5A 4S or 5S on a deep-geared small brushless would be nice for a parkflyer ~15oz. Or maybe at 2A using an IPS brushed motor...
Or maybe they'll stay on the shelf...
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Old Jul 22, 2005, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isvana
However, the Sapphions appear to act more like shotgun cartridges, so it looks like you choose fire or thunder.
Did you see something I didn't see? I've seen all of the Saphion videos since the first one a couple of years ago, and I've never seen anything explosive that would produce damage from a Saphion cell. Who cares if a cell makes a popping noise when it's penetrated as long as it doesn't burst into flame or send shrapnel flying?
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