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Old Jan 08, 2005, 03:06 PM
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Wow What A Difference...

I recently bought 2 permax speed 400 can motors from tower hobbies at $5.75 a piece and Id like to share with everyone my process for breaking in these motors,which I urge everyone to do if you want to see a speed/power/life excpectancy increase with your brushed motor.First I timed the motor and there are several threads on how to do this.next I took my sons transformer unit from his train set and used this as a adjustable power source for the motor..most people use 2 -d cell batteries in series..which im sure works to.I liked the idea of using the transformer becuasse I could start giving current to the motor at a very low voltage..and gradually go higher.next I filled a clear glass of water to the top {some peopel say to use distilled water and this is probably due to the fact that tap water has impurities/hard metals in it..fortunatley I have a pur water filtratation system..but Id imagine regular tap water is fine}.before starting the break in process,I held the motor up to a light to see what the brushes looked like and how much contact they made with the commuter.I was amazed to see only the corners of each brush made contact while the larger middle section of each brush did not.this is so inefficient and causes lots of arcing.I placed the motor in the water with the leads attached from the train transformer and gave it just enough power to start the motr shaft spinning {make sure you break the motor in the right direction that it will be used} I let it run for about 5 minutes and then took it out and emptied the water and got another fresh glass of water.This is done becuase you will see how dirty the water gets from the brushes wearing down and you dont want to recontaminate the motor with this brush dust.put the motor once again in the new water and run for about another 5-10 minutes.this will seat the brushes and you may even hear the motor speed instaneously go higher as this happens but it si only very slight as far as the audible tone you will hear.On my 2nd run in water,I was able to slightly speed up the motor every minute by giving more current to the motor via my sons train transformer...if your using 2 -d batteries dont worry about this step.generally 10-15 minutes will be all that is neede to complete the break in procedure.Take the motor out of the water and look at the brushes now.They will be making full contact and should be barely sparking.This is how the motor was meant to run.Dry the motor off with a blowdryer to get all the mositure out of the inside of it.You may want to put a drop of lubricant on each end of the motor where the bushing is..BUT BE careful if you do this ..if you use to much lubricant and it gets inside of the motor or on the brushes you can do more harm then good.Once completed test the motor out in your plane..more then likely it will be worth the 15 minutes of time you spent to see power/speed increase along with a motor that lasts significantly longer..I hope this helps many of you looking for a cost effective way to increase your planes performance...
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Old Jan 08, 2005, 04:44 PM
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"First I timed the motor and there are several threads on how to do this"

what do you mean " time the motor " ..?¿

how do you do that..?

does it increase the motor´s performance..?

i think i put too much lubricant in my motor what should i do..?

thank you
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Old Jan 08, 2005, 06:06 PM
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do a search on "timed motors...to much oil/libricant..if it got in the motor..put it in water and run it at low speeds..to burn off the lubricant and keep sparks/heat to a minimum..its very easy to over do the lubricant..dont let it get in the motor itself..
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Old Jan 08, 2005, 06:52 PM
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Boston, MA subburb
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rumme,

We must be jointed at the hip because we use the exact same procedure. After reading a number of water break-in threads in RC Groups, none of which followed yours exactly, I also settled on 5 minutes in one glass of water and 10 minutes in a 2nd glass.

I use two D cells and have to spin the motor's (a Sp 600) shaft with my fingers to get it started for the first 5 minutes. The motor starts itself at the beginning of the 2nd run.

I use "White" sewing machine oil, pore a little on a toothpic and let one drop fall from the toothpics point onto one end of the shaft and a second drop on the other end. After oiling, the motor's speed picks up noticeably. I've gotten about 540 minutes on one motor before it’s plane cartwheeled on landing and bent the motor's shaft.

As far as performance, I don't have any change in thrust numbers but the difference is very noticeable when flying. Using the first motor (with no break in), hand launches were an adventure in gaining speed before the plane got close to the ground. With the second motor, the plane literally pulled out of my hand and gained speed with almost no loss in altitude. I also had enough power to rise off ground within a 40 feet run on short grass and was very comfortable with its rate of climb.

Alan

BTW, The plane weighs 47oz so there is a bit of bulk to haul around.
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Last edited by Al Offt; Jan 08, 2005 at 07:16 PM.
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Old Jan 08, 2005, 08:15 PM
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Columbia Regional, Missouri, United States
Joined Dec 2002
726 Posts
I Test All Brushed Motors..........



www.wattsup.co.nz/timeeps300

it tells all...........
and YES.......Half my motors have been reversed timed for gear drives. Retiming them really made a defference. Not only in amp draw but performance.........


PHIL I.
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Old Jan 09, 2005, 05:41 AM
Rehab is for quitters
LuckyArmpit's Avatar
West Middlesex, PA, US
Joined Jun 2001
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I can see breaking in a motor. However, I've never done it. I figure a speed 400 can be had for a measly 5 bux. Anyways, had a 400 in an FMA Razor.
The wing had over 500 flights at about an average of 5 or 6 minutes each flight. That would be around 50 hours of flight time. I used 7 and 8 cell packs. Not bad for a $5 motor. I have a Hyper 400 in it now that has about
150 flights on it.

Dave...
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Old Jan 10, 2005, 11:36 AM
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I am just astounded at how well this $6 brushed can motor is performing after retimng/breaking it in...and I would imagine that 95% of all flyers arent doing this..if they only new the rewards....I bet Im getting a 25% increase in performance..all for just a few extra minutes of time...
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Old Jan 10, 2005, 11:59 AM
dusty bible = dirty life
Majortomski's Avatar
Oklahoma City OK USA Where fakts still exist even if they are ignored
Joined Aug 2000
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The blimp in my avatar has three stock Speed 400s, each was broken in, the tail fan motor runs forward and reverse.

These motors run up to 18 minutes straigh for a total run time of 72 minute each hockey game.

there are a minimum of 30 hockey games in a season.

The motors are working just fine in their third season. =108 HOURS of operation.
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Old Jan 10, 2005, 06:41 PM
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Oklahoma
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I've seen you flying your blimp many times at a Blazer's game.
Always a safe and steady flight. I've been very tempted to smuggle one of my park flyers in and buzz your balloon as you pass over the crowd.
But I wouldn't want to get 86'd from the Ford Center. Plus I didn't know what channel you may be on. LOL !!!! GO BLAZERS !!!
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Old Jan 10, 2005, 07:58 PM
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Majortomski - I did the same job for the islander's here in NY. Sounds like we had the same blimp. Those 400's didn't last too long though - we ended up ripping them out and running Kyosho AP-29's all around.

Back on topic, In my rc car days, People seemed to have a preoccupation with breaking in the bushings on can motors as well as the brushes. There was/is a product called "bushing buster" which basicly was some sort of fine grit (valve polishing compound?) suspended in a light oil. You were supposed to put a few drops on your bushings, then run the motor for 30 seconds. I always would wonder if this procedure would hurt those oilite bushings more than help.
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Old Jan 10, 2005, 08:15 PM
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Larry Dudeck's Avatar
Williamsville, NY, USA
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I have had five planes powered by twin s400's, two were pushers. I have never bothered with any break-in period; my thinking is just flying the planes will result in a proper break-in. Similarily, I don't break-in the motor of my cordless drill. Nor the motors that operate the power windows and antenna in my car (all have motors similar to, if not, S400's)

My Twin Star had about 500 flights on the motors before the air frame fell apart. The motors are still usable. Other twins of mine have hundreds of flights on them.

I think the only way the value of a break-in can be proved (or dis-proved) is a well defined bench test, using a WATT meter and some means to measure thrust and RPM.
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Old Jan 10, 2005, 09:22 PM
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Columbia Regional, Missouri, United States
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Racer...............



I am a racer.....I will race anything that has a motor--engine something that I can tweek to make better--faster--last longer. And there are lots of us looking for that last little +......Everything I owned always ran better than it should! On r/c motors, that means retiming, water breakin, spring tweeking..ect..ect..

When I races slotcars, I looked for anyway to get some performance or longetivity to my motors. I did a back to back test on a motor using a fresh cut comm and ran it till it was broke in on a power supply. Then did another test with a fresh cut comm amd a water breakin. I used the same brushes,springs, ect.ect. I did scrape the brushes both times for virgin material before doing the breakin. It was worth a tenth of a second on a 4 second lap. That ment I had 1 lap extra every 40 laps. When there were races determined by placement on the track after 16 min. racing.....That tenth sure looked good. It made the difference between a winner and an o -yea, he ALSO ran.......

Larry,
You are are a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" person. My brother was the same way and when he used something up. I got it. And I got some GOOD stuff over the years. I can't fault eather way a person can go! You are happy----I am happy. Different strokes for different folks......



PHIL I.
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Old Jan 10, 2005, 09:59 PM
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Larry..I dont need a bench test to know that the 400 can motor performs better with it being retimed/water broken in...the speed/torque is much better..along with the fact i CAN LOOK IN THE MOTOR WHEN ITS RUNNING AND SEE IT RUNS MORE EFFICIENTLY by the fact that there are hardly any sparks
after being broken in..compared to not being broken in/retimed......I only got about 20 flights out of my previous 400 motor before it started performly so lethargically..it had to be taken out..cant wait to see how much longer a broken in motor will last..but for some peopel ..this procedure may not be worth their time..I just try to post information that saves people money and gives them more bang for their buck..
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Old Jan 11, 2005, 11:31 AM
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Larry Dudeck's Avatar
Williamsville, NY, USA
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rumme

......I only got about 20 flights out of my previous 400 motor before it started performly so lethargically..it had t

Man, what are you doing to those poor S400's?

A few years ago I did have two vendor re-timed 4.8v S400's driving HiLine Red Flame Blaster EDF's (a dumb name if I ever heard one). On 8 cells, the first motor died after 35 flights. On 7 cells, the second motor was still going strong after 90 flights.

So the higher current definitely played a roll in the motor's short life span.

Perhaps you are pushing the motors far beyond their inherent capability and the little extra help from the re-timing is making the difference. My limited understanding of re-timing is it is an RPM function. The motor is re-timed for maximum RPM. What does this do when the motor is not at maximum RPM?

If it works for you, then do it. But for my kind of flying, I won't bother with it.
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Old Jan 11, 2005, 04:01 PM
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San Jose, California, United States
Joined Oct 2004
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Runme-

Not that I don't believe you because I have spent time doing exactly what you have. I am just curious as to the performance difference between doing it and not doing it.

Guess that can be a project for another day. Project dept is already wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy backed up...

fb


Quote:
Originally Posted by rumme
Larry..I dont need a bench test to know that the 400 can motor performs better with it being retimed/water broken in...the speed/torque is much better..along with the fact i CAN LOOK IN THE MOTOR WHEN ITS RUNNING AND SEE IT RUNS MORE EFFICIENTLY by the fact that there are hardly any sparks
after being broken in..compared to not being broken in/retimed......I only got about 20 flights out of my previous 400 motor before it started performly so lethargically..it had to be taken out..cant wait to see how much longer a broken in motor will last..but for some peopel ..this procedure may not be worth their time..I just try to post information that saves people money and gives them more bang for their buck..
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