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Old Jul 06, 2001, 05:58 PM
Ron
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Chilliwack B.C. Canada
Joined Nov 1999
1,318 Posts
Fokker DR 1

For those who are interested, I am almost finished the DR1. 86" span. 2500 sq. in.
I just have to figure out how to make some larger wheels, (the 6" ones look silly on it).and paint the cowl, and put the crosses on it. I was aiming for 8 1/2 pounds finished.
If I use the Atomic force and 10 cells, it comes out to 7 lbs. 4 oz.
If I use the Astro 40, superbox combination, which I'm leaning towards, it weighs in at 8 lbs. 12 oz. I missed my target weight either way. Boy I can't win ! VBG.
Test flights soon, in the next week I hope.
If I knew how I would post a picture.
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Old Jul 06, 2001, 06:43 PM
Registered User
Seattle, WA USA
Joined Jun 2000
71 Posts
7 pounds?!? Sounds great to me. I'd like to know how you're planning on gearing that Atomic force to keep it from flying apart on 10 cells. Let us know how she flies.

Dave
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Old Jul 06, 2001, 08:08 PM
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Far4nugn's Avatar
Raleigh, NC
Joined Nov 2000
576 Posts
Ron, search for GWRIGHT 's posts on the use of the Kyosho Endoplasma. May be a good option... I think he's been swinging up to an 18" prop.....

Good luck....someone help this man post a pic!

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Old Jul 06, 2001, 08:10 PM
Ascended Master
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Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
13,499 Posts
You have 17.3 sq. ft of wing, and ONLY 8-1/2 lbs..
Dr-1s are notorious ground-loopers. Both takeoff and landings.. and on landings they tend to nose over. Be prepared to stop the motor to save the prop!
Lessening the ground angle helps the takeoffs.. a longer tailskid, grass runway..
Landings.. good luck!
.
Sparky Paul
PJB's Seriously Aeronautical Stuff




[This message has been edited by Sparky Paul (edited 07-07-2001).]
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Old Jul 06, 2001, 09:53 PM
D.G.B.
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Southington, Connecticut, United States
Joined Jun 2000
2,951 Posts
Ron sounds GREAT!!! also to help ground looping you can move the landing gear foward a little bit.this will give you better stability.When you come in for landings also save some power so you are still sending air over the tail and this will help to keep the front from going over.if you come in no power or dead stick "GOD help you" without power as soon as you touch the ground it will be like hitting a brick wall.one last thing too is to have both wheels spinging together not independent of each other.good luck...stefanP
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Old Jul 06, 2001, 09:58 PM
Product Manager at Hobbico
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United States
Joined May 2000
5,160 Posts

I'd think something using more cells and less current would be desired. I "think" you have the wing area to carry the weight However, I've "played" with all the Kyosho mad-science series motors, and the endoplasma seems to be the best bang for the buck on 10 cells. It's a tad more efficient than the atomic force, and the same price, so why would you use the atomic force is my thinking. The Krypton Krystal (14 turn) is a bit more efficient, and handles 10 cells. I flew one a dozen flights last weekend geared 8 to 1 spinning an 18X10 APC "E" prop. Static current was in the mid 40's but with lots of throttle management, 8 minute flights were normal. The Krypton Krystal,..however, is turning a TON of rpms (8 to 1 gear, spinning 18X10 at close to 4400rpms, so 35.2K on the motor, and SERIOUS unloading in the air,.. I'd bet 4600 or more rpms at full speed. Brushes only went a dozen flights and needed replacement. I could probably play with timing and get brush life a bit better, dunno. The endoplasma geared and propped the same, with the timing advanced 1 "large tick mark" on the graph on the case,.. spins the 18X10 at 4200, draws just under 40 after a few seconds (statically), and brushes are lasting 40 to 60 flights depending on how much throttle I use during those flights. This setup as you can see is only around the high 30's, maybe 40 mph in pitch speed, but thrust is unbelievable. It will take a 4lb, 1150 sq in airplane unlimited vertical, and I've actually hovered and torque rolled with it. Due to the current,..you MUST use throttle a lot or flights are short. I'm averaging around 8 minutes of flight, cause the plane is fully aerobatic at 1/3 or so throttle. I tried the atom smasher (12 turn) and it was light years ahead of even the Krypton Krystal in performance, geared 9.6 with the 18X10. The brushes and comm survive the current (close to 50 amps), but the rpms were above the mechanical limits of the motor. It slung a winding. The endo seems to be the best all-around "usable" motor for 10 cells. 400 watts plus a tad on 10 cells (I show over 1v per cell at 40 amps with P-3000's). The atomic force just MIGHT be able to handle another cell or two at lower current,..say low to mid 30's,..which could be a nice combination,.. but I haven't tried more than 10 on any of these,..... yet.

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Old Jul 07, 2001, 02:14 AM
Ron
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Chilliwack B.C. Canada
Joined Nov 1999
1,318 Posts
The Atomic force with 10 cells flies an 82"
Eindecker E111 18X 10 prop at 4200 Rpm.
Gets off in about 50 ft on our grass runway, but is NOT fast in the air. It is 1/5 scale, and flies at 20 mph. ( it will go faster )
but 20 is 1/5 the speed of the real thing.
I'm trying for the same kind of performance on the DR 1 which incidently, turned out nose heavy just like the Eindecker.
Had to move the batteries back lots to balance it. I will see if I like the Astro setup, if not I'll go with the Atomic force. The way I got it figured it will be landing at around 15 mph. I should be able to run over and put a pillow under it so that it will be comfortable if it flips over, which I think ( hope ) won't be a problem. It sits a little flatter than true scale, and the gear is a teeny bit forward, and I cheated elsewhere, but I ain't tellin where. Maybe if I can get a pic posted, you might spot it. I'll keep you posted on the test flights with both power setups.
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Old Jul 07, 2001, 02:45 AM
BEC
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Auburn, Washington USA
Joined Jan 2001
12,940 Posts
Gotta see this one at your end-of-August event......

Goin' float flyin' at Wamic, Oregon next weekend, though, mixing it up with those noisy, oily things.

See ya!
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Old Jul 07, 2001, 11:45 AM
Registered User
Oak Harbor, Washington, United States
Joined Jan 2001
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Here's a picture of Ron's plane, not yet detailed out.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewP...p=51460992&f=0

Norm
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Old Jul 07, 2001, 11:48 AM
Ron
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Chilliwack B.C. Canada
Joined Nov 1999
1,318 Posts
Don't fall in Bernard ! Be sure and remember your transmitter.
I hopefully will have the DR at Lacey in the first part of Aug. ( if I can keep it together)
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Old Jul 07, 2001, 12:55 PM
Over-engineered
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Ridgecrest, CA
Joined Nov 1998
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Kit or scratch?
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Old Jul 07, 2001, 02:12 PM
Product Manager at Hobbico
GWRIGHT's Avatar
United States
Joined May 2000
5,160 Posts
Ron,..
How do you have the Atomic force geared in the Eindecker? I wish there was an inexpensive high-ratio gearbox available,.. currently using the MEC monsterbox,.. but at $55,.. you can't put them on everything or it gets expensive.
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Old Jul 07, 2001, 10:28 PM
Ron
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Chilliwack B.C. Canada
Joined Nov 1999
1,318 Posts
The Dr1 is built from a photograph.
The 7 to 1 gearbox in the Eindecker is built from car gears and aluminum plate.
Any hobby shop that sell rc cars has them, and you can build almost any ratio you want.
The bearings are also available there, or you can buy them at a bearing supply house.
Then all you need, is a dremel tool for drilling pilot holes for the bearings and mount screws, and a hand drill motor to drill final size. The shaft is c 1040 steel which is easy to drill for the 1/16 drive pin.
Use some 1/8 brass tubing cut to length for the plate spacers, and in an hour or so you have a perfectly useable gearbox. Once you get the gears, the assembly will become obvious to you with a little thought. The first attempt may not look too professional, but after doing one or two you will have the knack for it. Just because it isn't shiny and the side plates are not perfectly identical, does not mean it won't work. My first one looked awful, but is three years old, and has hundreds of flights on it. Anyone who has seen it will attest to that
Give it a try, what have you got to lose, except a little time. Total cost about 12 dollars Canadian, so that works out to about 49 cents US
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Old Jul 07, 2001, 10:55 PM
Registered User
Boca Raton, FL USA
Joined Jul 2001
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Ron,
Cool plane! I am in the process of building a SPAD XIII. It has a 48" wingspan and weighs in at 64 oz without radio and engine. I was thinking of going electric with it, but am new to electrics and it seemed like it was going to cost a heck of a lot. What do you think?

I too couldn't find good wheels and ended up making my own from plywood and 1/4" black fuel line for tires. They came out pretty good.

Photos at http://www.dreammachines.tv/misc/SPADXIII

I would be interested to hear what you think about making it electric. I was thinking of a 60 gas because I need weight up front. It would fly nice I believe with a 46.

Andrew
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Old Jul 08, 2001, 08:28 AM
Product Manager at Hobbico
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United States
Joined May 2000
5,160 Posts
Thanks Ron. I used to Race cars and I'm very familiar with all the "trinkets" available .I have some 48 pitch spur gears, and tons of pinions. I'd thought of doing this but the one "problem" area is how to attach the spur gear to the shaft. The spurs are kind of thin, so I wanted a "hub" to mount one with. And there are parts available to do this right off the shelf, but they are designed around shafts that are way too small. Maybe I'll have to re-visit this. Also, on the MEC monsterbox, I've replaced the rollpin with .064" drill bit that's cut off. 1/16" wire didn't hold. the 064 drill rod stock seems to hold up to 40~50 flights before snapping. I think a hub of some sort with the spur gear screwing on would be better. Because of this, I was worried about the car spurs holding up to 400 watts, and 1/16" wire or drill rod just doesn't seem to be strong enough,.. so the thought of a hub came to mind. I've got friends with machine shops, so I'll probably have to see about getting some hubs made for say, a 1/4" drive shaft, that would mount the spur gears.
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