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Old Dec 28, 2004, 10:05 AM
Houng-wen Lin
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Shijr, Taiwan. DungGwan, China. City of Industry, California.
Joined Sep 2001
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GWS Dragonfly with EM300H com back!!!

After Jan. 2005, there will be no more GWS Dragonfly with EM300 in GWS new productionwith PHA-01 combos.

We find out the most flyers who complains about GWS DF were mostly use EM300 version! Since more power will brings more risk of damaged DF structures.

The Dragonfly which GWS shipped to Japan "Trim Co." all belongs EM150. I never hear any compains from Japan! Only a few of them had some extra vibration... Not yet had hear problems with PHA-01.

GWS will only supply Dragonfly with EM150 version. The EM300 version will be discontinious then.

However, when a Dragonfly pilot feel skill enough, he can move to EM300H motor as an up grade later.
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Old Dec 28, 2004, 12:08 PM
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Will existing dragonfly owners still be able to buy the direct drive tail motor replacement motors and prop adapters?
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Old Dec 28, 2004, 01:54 PM
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So we have all bought a substandard product that is being DISCONTINUED as a result of its flaws and problems!

GREAT!!! so much for product support. Everyone better hope they dont lose their DD prop adaptor, their heatsink, or burn out their DD tail because who knows how long GWS will manufacture parts for the EM300 DD tail version of the mini dragonfly.

can someone reach around and pull the knife out of my back (disgusted)
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Old Dec 28, 2004, 03:57 PM
Houng-wen Lin
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Shijr, Taiwan. DungGwan, China. City of Industry, California.
Joined Sep 2001
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EM300H as an up grade for who already skilled to control EM150.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willard
So we have all bought a substandard product that is being DISCONTINUED as a result of its flaws and problems!

GREAT!!! so much for product support. Everyone better hope they dont lose their DD prop adaptor, their heatsink, or burn out their DD tail because who knows how long GWS will manufacture parts for the EM300 DD tail version of the mini dragonfly.

can someone reach around and pull the knife out of my back (disgusted)
I am sorry that you missed to read all about what I postedd.

EM300H as an up grade for who already skilled to control EM150.

We just don't want to see new pilots try to get an over powered helicopter EM300H version. Helicopter is toy, take time to getting be skilled.

EM300H version is almost like put a Porsche engine into a VW Beatle? Very easy out of control for new driver, but same thing may be good to let experienced drivers feel great!

We should make a notice to all the dealers: Advise new RC helicopter to buy EM150 only to reduce the risk of damage from EM300H version which may be too much powerful to a new commer.
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Old Dec 28, 2004, 04:19 PM
Houng-wen Lin
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Shijr, Taiwan. DungGwan, China. City of Industry, California.
Joined Sep 2001
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Dear Willard, some time ago one of you were telling peoples in here go to E-Sky!? That's very roude words to be in GWS forum, especially, you don't even know how E-Sky is perfect one?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...&page=23&pp=15 post#339
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan_gbk
Hi, aerohawk. I think I am now also fly alone in my area. I have a Dragonfly actually. Now it is in hospital because balance bar and tail blade broke. So I get 1 esky CCPM this week. But it cannot even take off. Now looking for solution from all over the world, Hongkong, USA, Malaysia, Taiwan .....etc.
Can you give me some points on how to solve this problem? Thanks.
I have to travel 1 hour to get my RC group in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. But I enjoy solo too (with my GWS E-starter and Dragonfly)
You just keeping affect peoples go away from GWS, but you guide them to a wrong direction even worse!

I respect you as a GWS flyer, but pls not to do the things that might be insulting yourself.

We can discuss here in a friendly way, could we?

All what I have done here are try to help. Not to hurt you!
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Old Dec 28, 2004, 04:49 PM
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Mr Lin. This is a very poor business decision! The EM300H is a better heli than the old 150 version, and is NOT overpowered, BUT the PHA-01 is a bad design. Are you sure you have not misunderstood the Japanese culture? I have worked at a high level in one of the largest Japanese companies, and I have seen with my own eyes how the Japanese will not "lose face" by complaining. Us westerners will "tell it like it is", so you will ALWAYS receive more negative comments from us if something is not right.

What happened to your announced plans to release a PHA-02 (?) which dealt with the overheating gyro problem, OR your announced plans to put together a separates package?

Have you thought of outsourcing the 3in1 to another manufacturer, such as the Esky, which does not seem to have the overheating problem? Surely with your sales volumes, you would be able to switch to an alternative for little cost?

I repeat that to pull back from offering the EM300H as the normal Mini Dragonfly is a major business error.

I also would hope that whatever your decision regarding the motor, you will ensure that every Mini Dragonfly you sell will have the ball-in swashplate and the direct-drive tail, as these are two other features that make the EM300H such a good helicopter...
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Old Dec 28, 2004, 05:07 PM
Houng-wen Lin
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Shijr, Taiwan. DungGwan, China. City of Industry, California.
Joined Sep 2001
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We treat GWS flyers as friend, not just a customer!

Dear Tonystott, Thanks for your kindly suggestion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonystott
Mr Lin. This is a very poor business decision!..
We rather lost the market share, but we perfer let the new flyers get EM150 first! We want them fly safety, less cost to pay for heavy carsh!

When they get enough skillness, they can follow by EM300H up grade latter.

We treat GWS flyers as friend, not just a customer who bought GWS products! That's the way that we will carry on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonystott
What happened to your announced plans to release a PHA-02 (?) which dealt with the overheating gyro problem, OR your announced plans to put together a separates package?
...
That is someting GWS still go on!
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Old Dec 28, 2004, 05:57 PM
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Thank you for your reply Mr Lin. However, I would like your response to my suggestion that GWS simply replace the PHA-01 in new helicopters with one of the alternative 3in1 boards already on the market. I am sure you would be able to buy these at a good price (and even rebadge them as GWS! ). You could then continue to sell the EM300H with none of the overheating problems. The rest of the Mini Dragonfly is very very good.
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Old Dec 28, 2004, 07:02 PM
Houng-wen Lin
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Shijr, Taiwan. DungGwan, China. City of Industry, California.
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Pls be friendly here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonystott
Are you sure you have not misunderstood the Japanese culture? I have worked at a high level in one of the largest Japanese companies, and I have seen with my own eyes how the Japanese will not "lose face" by complaining. Us westerners will "tell it like it is", so you will ALWAYS receive more negative comments from us if something is not right....

...Thank you for your reply Mr Lin. However, I would like your response to my suggestion that GWS simply replace the PHA-01 in new helicopters with one of the alternative 3in1 boards already on the market. I am sure you would be able to buy these at a good price (and even rebadge them as GWS! ). You could then continue to sell the EM300H with none of the overheating problems. The rest of the Mini Dragonfly is very very good.
Do you want me to treat you as your Western way?

Then I should say: "You are insulting GWS...." But I don't like to say so. Like you said, Asian peoples like living in a peaceful way. What ever you said.

Pls be friendly here, OK?
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Old Dec 28, 2004, 07:22 PM
OV-102 Columbia
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Southwest Florida
Joined Feb 2003
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How is it insulting to suggest GWS OEM the 3in1 electronics from another manufacturer and rebrand it, considering that most of the rest of the dragonfly airframe is already a OEM purchase?

can't you just OEM the 3in1 board from the same company you buy the dragonfly airframe from?
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Old Dec 28, 2004, 07:58 PM
Houng-wen Lin
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Shijr, Taiwan. DungGwan, China. City of Industry, California.
Joined Sep 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indybudd
How is it insulting to suggest GWS OEM the 3in1 electronics from another manufacturer and rebrand it, considering that most of the rest of the dragonfly airframe is already a OEM purchase?

can't you just OEM the 3in1 board from the same company you buy the dragonfly airframe from?
If we are in the position changed...

You probly get mad!?
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Old Dec 29, 2004, 01:07 AM
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Mr Lin, I was not insulting you to suggest that you rebadge a product made by someone else. Outsourcing product components is normal these days. What I meant was that the cost would be low enough for you to PAY the supplier for the right to badge the component with GWS brand.

Nearly all famouse brand manufacturers now have some of their product made elsewhere but with their own badges (I was surprised to see even Ikea product made in China)
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Old Dec 29, 2004, 01:29 AM
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Roseville, CA (Sacramento area)
Joined May 2003
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I had the 300H with the DD tail version and really enjoyed it. I had zero problems with it in the time I had it (it was stolen out of my car, about two days after I sold my spare airframe, it was my first real heli and I loved it to death, cannot afford a new one at this time). The only problem I did have with it was the overheating gyro issue that many people have. My tail rotor would drift after about 5 minutes of flight even on 7.4v lithium packs.

Being a westerner, I am not your usual complainer unless something really bad happens. I think it is not the best idea to drop the 300h motor from the Dragonfly heli. I have flown both versions of the Dragonfly and the 150 version is not really capable of anything other than hovering. I was able to do some FF with my 300h, but the 150 was just not up to the task.

I am with Tony in this one regard... The PHA-01 is a really nice concept, but it has some drawbacks (like the overheating issue) that many of the other 3-in-1 boards do not. I would hope that in lieu of replacing the 300h motor, you replace the PHA-01 with the PHA-02 or equivalent. (I had even mounted a heatsink onto my gyro and it only helped half of the time)
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Old Jan 01, 2005, 12:08 PM
Houng-wen Lin
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Shijr, Taiwan. DungGwan, China. City of Industry, California.
Joined Sep 2001
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Pls do not consider PHA-01 any thing wrong! It's match original design pertty good when GWS Dragonfly with EM150.

Why GWS made EM300H? If you go bake and take a look what the USA flyers push me to have more power!

They call EM150 under power like A10 EDF50 version. But properly select a good quality battery pack with right performance also very important!

Not every battery makers supply Sanyo cells inside as GWS did. Even a Sanyo pack need a few cycles charge before ready to be used.

The original GWS Dragonfly will take off at 55~65% power if flying with GWS Ni-MH battery pack. Any GWS DF reqired more than 75% power to hover, that will be rejected by QC test RD pilot and retune to meet this standard.

The Cheap battery pack may caused you unable to take off GWS Dragonfly! Some people may try to use 8 cells or 3 cells Li-Po, that will be the killers to PHA-01 and also possible cause motors burn!

Too many options were added on! The unresonable weight increased!

Some minor carsh may caused the rotor or motor shaft bent, power lost but more current!

GWS is designing a new concept of helicopters, this will be very easy to fly. Excellent for those who complains very louderly here and great choice for kids to learn as well!

Much toys like. This will be absolutely good choice for who need RC toys instead of RC Hobby Helicopters.

The reason that we have to consider stop making EM300H is that can not be a first helicopter for beginer.

GWS Dragonfly EM300H have great performance. But very easy to get missundertand if flyers did something wrong to her. She's very sensitive if you do not treat her nicely!

We fly her OK, does not means every one of you can handle her well like us. You can't be secess by roude to her! She's wild! However, if you know how to get along with her after many times spicy date, treat her nicely, then you will be very proud to own her and fly amesing greatly!
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Old Jan 01, 2005, 02:22 PM
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Roseville, CA (Sacramento area)
Joined May 2003
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Unfortunately, much of what you have said in your reply to my post isn't applicable. I was using a 2s lithium-polymer battery that weighed less than the 8-cell NiHM pack that it came with. As it stood, it should be able to fly out of the box (as mine did with the lithium pack). My motors never burnt out in the time I had the heli. The only parts I ever broke during my time with it were the landing gear struts (I broke one set). Main shaft never bent and the bearings that came with the kit were replaced with a set of Boca bearings. The only consistent problem I had (at least once I balanced the flybar and head assembly, mine were pathetically out of balance, as well as my main blades both statically and dynamically) was with the gyro overheating. In my case, nothing was done by me to overpower anything on my little heli. The gyro overheated on its own, not by my doing.

Please do not be so quick to judge that a product has been overpowered to fail. There are times that a part is either poorly designed or defective from the factory. In my opinion, the PHA-01 works quite well for what it is, but the gyro is its weak link. Put a better gyro on the board and I feel you will have a nice product.
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