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Old Jun 01, 2003, 05:08 PM
Knight of Ni-wom
Victorville, CA
Joined Mar 2003
179 Posts
aeropenguin

I'm not too concerned with weight. 3 hs-50 servos only weigh .64 ounce (6 grams a peice). That, and it just struck me that Sky Hooks and Rigging has a 4-channel receiver/esc combo that weighs in at only 3.3 grams as well as wes-technik servos. I guess when it come down too it heres what I'd need in terms of thrust:

All "standard" equipment (GWS Pico, hs-50's and Pixie 7p) w/ the e-tech batts - 1.7 ounces + weight of plane + weight of motor

In the middle (SHR RX72 hybrid, 3 HS-50's) w/ etech batts - 1.4 ounces + weight of motor + weight of plane

As light as it gets other than RFFS (SHR RX72 hybrid, wes servos ls 3) w/ e-tech batts - 1.1 ounces + weight of motor + weight of plane

I'm rather ignorant when it comes to motors (mostly FF experience and helicopters) so any info would be appreciated.

Of course, I'd rather avoid the third option, as things start getting a bit pricy

Thanks
Loren
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Old Jun 01, 2003, 07:29 PM
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jnowell's Avatar
Monte Cristi - Dominican Republic
Joined Sep 2000
855 Posts
Loren,

I've done many different Acro Bipe setups, and the smallest power plant i could get away with (even under 2 oz.) was an N-20 (B2 motor) geared 4:1 with a Gunther "Zagi" prop. I don't think a KP-00 would pull it, at least based on what I've seen. I think I was using a Bob Selman gear box.

Jason
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Old Jun 01, 2003, 07:34 PM
Knight of Ni-wom
Victorville, CA
Joined Mar 2003
179 Posts
jnowell

Sorry, i wasnt clear in my last post, what im looking for is what motor/prop combo would get me close to vertical performance.

How hot are your GWS DD setups?

Thanks
Loren
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Old Jun 01, 2003, 07:58 PM
Who Says Penguins Can't Fly?
aeropenguin's Avatar
Bay Area, California
Joined Jan 2003
2,713 Posts
okay, if you aren't doing RFFS no matter what, then here's what I really sinserely recomend. Really, please, please check out these items! They are the best I can think of, and are all very cheap!!!!!

the lightest reciever (either a lightened up R4P, by taking replacing all wires with smaller ones, replacing all connectors by direct soldering, and taking off the case, OR, better yet, for a ton more money, but the best available reciever there is in my opinion, the Berg 4 channel. It is $60, and very, very light) check aeromicro.com for both of those and the best prices...

I would NOT get HS-50 servos!!!!!!! You REALLY need the lightest here, as these are VERY heavy - all of them. I *really* recomend the lightest servo out there today - the new Cirrus CS-5.4 servo. To lighten it, take cut off the mounting tabs, take it apart and replace all wires with skinnier wire, leave the bottom of the case off (use tape to hold the inners in) and cut out all connectors and use direct soldering. Keep lightening up everywhere you can think of until you get to 4.2 grams - that's what Matt Keenon got it down to. Anyway, the lighter, the better

ESC: you will definately not need something like 7 amps like your controller - not sure, but if the GWS 5amp controller is lighter, don't hesitate, get it.

battery: 2s pack of 230mAh lipos - this is *perfect* for the below combo.

motor: I think this motor loooks really good. I'd look into it:
http://www.allerc.com/ go to "Motors and Propellers" and the first thing there is what I'm taking about - the "GWS EDP50-XC" . Run it DD with the included propeller, or go up a half inch or so, but beware, that the motor is going to fry a little sooner that regular. They are cheap though...and you'll have lots of more performance...

Please check all these items out and take a good look at them, they are the best I can think of as far as the lightest non-RFFS system goes without getting crazy with prices.

Hope That Helps!
-aeroP
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Old Jun 01, 2003, 10:54 PM
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jnowell's Avatar
Monte Cristi - Dominican Republic
Joined Sep 2000
855 Posts
Loren,

The GWS DD setup won't give you vertical in a hovering sense. For hovering you need more blade and less pitch. I'd start with a GWS S2 motor and 7x6 prop and see what you get. I don't know if it will hover, but the numbers say it should come close. I've used HS-50's in every one that I've done, but I'm using CS-10's in my new one. Still under 3 ounces full house with GWS DD. I've flown them at almost 5 ounces and they were still docile at slow speeds. I'd really like to hear what you get with the S2 (or S1 and 8x6 combo for that matter). My float version may get one now that I think about it. It would probably be awesome set up like that.

Good luck, and keep us informed on what you do.

Jason
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Old Jun 02, 2003, 12:15 AM
Knight of Ni-wom
Victorville, CA
Joined Mar 2003
179 Posts
jnowell

Thanks for the tip on the S2 (EPU 3 if im not mistaken), it looks really promising. I figure i can get all up flying weight to be 2.5 ounces + weight of plane (don't know how much it weighs). At 8 volts, an S2 swinging a EP7060 will produce 3.6 oz thrust, and at 7 volts its still at 3.3 oz!!

The setup I plan to use:
GWS 4rp
Pixie 7p
3 HS50's or CS-10's (where the heck do you guys get the CS-10's??)
2s2p pack of Kokam 170's
EPU 3 (S2) with EP7060

Now, to save up a little money, and dream of wild aerobatics in my front yard(well maybe not... kinda small)

Thanks
Loren
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Old Jun 02, 2003, 12:17 AM
Strange Plane Central
frankenfoamy's Avatar
Poway (near San Diego), CA US
Joined Dec 2000
1,884 Posts
The CS-10s are pretty much the Pico servos with ball bearings
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Old Jun 02, 2003, 10:12 AM
Team 30 Micro EDF
Mike Taylor's Avatar
Camarillo, California
Joined Apr 2002
4,516 Posts
The CS-10BB servos are $17 at Hobby People. The also have the 6.2 and 5.6 gram Cirrus servos for the same price. I'll be crash testing the 6.2s later this morning...
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Old Jun 02, 2003, 10:21 AM
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rakm's Avatar
Pensacola Regional, Florida, United States
Joined Jan 2002
442 Posts
Quote:
the lightest reciever (either a lightened up R4P, by taking replacing all wires with smaller ones, replacing all connectors by direct soldering, and taking off the case, OR, better yet, for a ton more money, but the best available reciever there is in my opinion, the Berg 4 channel. It is $60, and very, very light) check aeromicro.com for both of those and the best prices...

Isn't the GWS Pico stock lighter than the Berg 4 stock, including wires and crystal? The GWS on Aeromicro is listed as .16oz. I'm wondering if that's including the wires and crystal. The Berg 4 with wires is listed as .25oz. I know the Berg is a great receiver but for indoors and close in flying the GWS Pico should work fine right?

Ron
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Last edited by rakm; Jun 02, 2003 at 10:31 AM.
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Old Jun 02, 2003, 06:32 PM
Who Says Penguins Can't Fly?
aeropenguin's Avatar
Bay Area, California
Joined Jan 2003
2,713 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by rakm
Isn't the GWS Pico stock lighter than the Berg 4 stock, including wires and crystal? The GWS on Aeromicro is listed as .16oz. I'm wondering if that's including the wires and crystal. The Berg 4 with wires is listed as .25oz. I know the Berg is a great receiver but for indoors and close in flying the GWS Pico should work fine right?

Ron
Aeromicro says for the Berg microstamp: "Only 7 grams AUW" that includes all wires, crystals, etc.
Aeromicro says for the GWS R4P: "4-Channel 72 MHz FM GWS Pico Receiver JR Version with Horizontal Connector Pins (0.16 oz)"

.16oz = 4.535924 grams.

WOW, you are very right! I stand corrected! PLus, take off the case, use smaller wires, no connectors, and I'll bet it is down to 3 grams if you *really* try!

rakm, yes, these recievers are great for indoor flights. You do not need too much distance maximum....they are great for outdoors too - some people only use them, everywhere, and swear by them.

-aeroP
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Old Jun 02, 2003, 07:00 PM
Team 30 Micro EDF
Mike Taylor's Avatar
Camarillo, California
Joined Apr 2002
4,516 Posts
That 4.4 gram GWS RX is only rated (on AllRc) for 150 meters/500 feet. The 'Berg Stamp' is listed as 'full range' (whatever that is).
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Old Jun 02, 2003, 07:32 PM
Who Says Penguins Can't Fly?
aeropenguin's Avatar
Bay Area, California
Joined Jan 2003
2,713 Posts
Mike, thanks for the clarification... 500 feet, yet it is not much in comparison, that is farther than I think I will ever fly a model from myself - maybe 300ft max definately, but one doesn't want gliching when the model blows away in the wind far, far awway.

ServoCity says that all the "good" Hitec recievers (little 2 channel-er and feather not included) have a "1 mile+" range.

I assume that this is the average range, and what to expect from any reciever with a good reputation that costs more than $30 (ahem, ahem, feather, R4P). I'd assume that the micro stamp has that too.

-aeroP
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Old Jun 02, 2003, 11:23 PM
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jnowell's Avatar
Monte Cristi - Dominican Republic
Joined Sep 2000
855 Posts
AeroP, on a 15" span biplane, who cares if your Rx doesn't perform well at 1 mile. You can't see the thing at 500 feet. I still think a GWS R4P is the "smartest" choice for this airplane. I've used them in all of my Acro Bipes and have never lost one to anything related to the Rx. All it did was correctly execute the stupid commands I gave it, resulting in the models demise

Jason
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Old Jun 03, 2003, 12:50 AM
Who Says Penguins Can't Fly?
aeropenguin's Avatar
Bay Area, California
Joined Jan 2003
2,713 Posts
yeah, yeah....

Yes, now of course that I was proven wrong that the R4P is a lot lighter, I say it is a LOT better! Who needs 300ft range for a plane like this?? Let along 500, let alone 1 mile!

Look two posts up, where I said >>>Mike, thanks for the clarification... 500 feet, yet it is not much in comparison, that is farther than I think I will ever fly a model from myself - maybe 300ft max definately, but one doesn't want gliching when the model blows away in the wind far, far awway.<<<
see, I'm not making it up

-aeroP

P.S. far, far away won't happen in a gymnasium - the walls will grab ya!
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Old Jun 03, 2003, 06:26 AM
Knight of Ni-wom
Victorville, CA
Joined Mar 2003
179 Posts
and you thought that was light...

If you really want a leight-weight "standard" receiver try Sky Hooks and Rigging's receivers (www.microrc.com). Their "standard" one is 4 channel @ 2.8 grams. For the extremist, they have a PRO model, 5 channel @ 1.9 grams (no connectors)
That, and their 4 channel receiver/ESC combo is lighter than a GWS 4rp, wieghing in at 3.3 grams (7 amp esc!!)
Oh, and they are tested to 1000 feet A bit pricy though...

Loren
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