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Old Dec 26, 2004, 07:45 AM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
6,430 Posts
Personally I'd rather see you build the plane you want to than worry about two inches.

Gordon
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Old Dec 26, 2004, 08:35 AM
Team 30 Micro EDF
Mike Taylor's Avatar
Camarillo, California
Joined Apr 2002
4,516 Posts
Ethan,

The Dimer/Walnut is a suggestion for a size that would take the smallest gear and be large enough for a reasonable chance of success. Go ahead and do the Cub or the Stampe if you want to. The sizes are quidelines. It's not like this is a formal competition. Rather, it is a theme based group experience. (NB: how many hippies does it take to change a lightbulb? 10 - 1 to change the bulb and 9 to share the experience)
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Old Dec 26, 2004, 04:41 PM
Registered User
Delaware
Joined Aug 2004
69 Posts
Thanks guys. The Cub excited me a little bit more than the Stampe. I thought it would be neat to model a WWII Recon Cub. What type of power setup do you all recommend? I was thinking of a JPM, Falcon servos. What type of Brushless?

Gordon,
I received a reply from Olivier regarding his two kits. He has three in production at this moment. Did you buy your kits directly from him, and if so how did you handle the transaction? I have a picture of his Jodel D112, but am unsure how to compress it.

Ethan
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Old Dec 26, 2004, 04:52 PM
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billystiltner's Avatar
United States, VA, Clintwood
Joined Nov 2002
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Mike
What does NB mean?
I used to follow Jerry Garcia around so watch it about the hippie jokes .
Billy
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Old Dec 26, 2004, 08:34 PM
Team 30 Micro EDF
Mike Taylor's Avatar
Camarillo, California
Joined Apr 2002
4,516 Posts
Ethan,

I don't think the JMP's built-in ESC is suitable for a brushless motor; they usuallyneed a special one. I would think a Kenway N-20 with GWS 5x3 would be enough for scale-like flight.

Billy,
NB means Nota Bene (or good note). Don't worry about the hippie jokes. I spent 3 days and nights in a Dead/Airplane/Country Joe/Quicksilver (and some others I could not ID by the time they came on) New Year's Eve party at the Fillmore myself...
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Old Dec 26, 2004, 09:21 PM
Registered User
Delaware
Joined Aug 2004
69 Posts
Mike,

I seem to recall that Gordon said he would be installing a Falcon servos and a brushless motor, with a JPM RX. I was thinking that it would be fun to put in a brushless motor, but I will admit that I am new to the hobby, so any thoughts are helpful. It might turn out that it would be a good choice to go with the Kenway setup that you suggest.

I'm running brushless setups in a couple of my Alphas and really like the performance and ease of use.

Thanks,

Ethan
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Old Dec 26, 2004, 09:28 PM
Team 30 Micro EDF
Mike Taylor's Avatar
Camarillo, California
Joined Apr 2002
4,516 Posts
I assume Gordon will answer this question, but I do know he is working on very small brushkless motors and that small brushless controllers are a problem. Perhaps he has mentioned 'coreless' motors (as opposed to 'brushless' motors) in conjunction with the JMP. The pager motors are, I believe, coreless motors, Gordon??
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Old Dec 26, 2004, 09:38 PM
Registered User
Delaware
Joined Aug 2004
69 Posts
Mike,

Gordon's post said, "Equipment will likely be JMP servo receiver, Falcon servos, and hopefully a micro brushless outrunner on two cells."

A coreless motor might be an option, though. It wil be fun to hear what Gordon has to say.
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Old Dec 26, 2004, 10:00 PM
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
Tim Wolff's Avatar
United States, MI, Temperance
Joined Sep 2002
6,553 Posts
Progress continues on the Baby Ace fuse. Making a number of minor changes. Some getting changed back when I realize why a particular part is located where it is I seem to keep adding... Most of the fuse construction has been very unorthdox for me after the sides were frammed. I made placeholder cross members for the fuse top where the formers attach so I could join the halves upside down. The plan was to place the bottom cross members and add a few on the top. Then flip it over and add the formers. What happend initally was balsa doing what it wanted to do and not what was asked of it. I managed to get it reasonably straight. I promise to make all the main fuse longerons from the same stick of balsa in the future.

Top of the fuse from the cockpit forward is to be sheeted with wet formed 1/32 balsa to replace the paper specified in the kit. I was going to omit the two 1/16 x 1/8 peices until I realized that they are where the cabane struts will mount. The cowl will be next and attached with magnets.
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Old Dec 27, 2004, 05:28 PM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
6,430 Posts
Ethan,

To run a brushless motor on the JMP servo combo you need a special version with the ESC dissabled/removed (I'm not sure which one). Bob Selman has or soon will have them. For a BL controller right now there are two ways to go. A Phoenix 10 with lighter wires and plugs weighs about 4.1g (contact BSD, again) or the more expensive WES BL controller at about 2.6g. The Gary Jones BL motor from BSD weighs about 7.7g with wires and produces much more thrust than this plane should require. I was thinking of using a smaller 3.5g BL motor that I've been working on with a few friends. I'm not sure if it would be for 1-cell or 2-cell. I have a WES BL controller on its way, which runs on 1-cell, but rough depending on motor. So, it's a possibility. If I can get a good version of my Micro LRK working that's probably what I would use. I also might use actuators with the BL motor, but again am not sure which way I'd go till I get there. If I do use a micro BL in this plane it will be on the cutting (bleeding?) edge with lots of issues to solve. I'll make the decison about what propulsion system to use as late as possible.

As built by Olivier the Stampe weighs 30g. If you back out the equipment he used that implies a weight of ~14g for the airframe complete with push rods etc, ready to go. This provides a good starting point for analyzing various equipment options. I'm sure the airframe as built by me will weigh more than 14g.

A coreless motor option (which I might use as well) would be a Super Slicks 7mm coreless toy car (pager) motor. See the thread in the micro threads index. It would save 1g over a M20 solution on one cell.

A much more off the shelf solution would be to use either the KP00 (what the kit was designed around), the Kenway M20 (can use larger prop), or the Gasparin M20, all on 1-cell. Static test results are on Gasparin's web site. Bob Selman should be getting some of the new M20 Gasparin gearbox relatively soon. Contact him if you are interested. The advantage of the Gasparin setup is it is deadly silent. And, you can use a larger prop than the KP00. I think a U80 prop would look funny on the Stampe. I need to look at the plans and see what size prop the Stampe can handle without hitting the ground. But, I think it may be able to handle the MCF 5x3 prop.

If anyone is interested in Olivier's kits here in the US I suggest contacting Bob Selman (note a vacation at BSD between Christmas and New Years) as I believe he will soon have them available.

Glad to see so much interest in Olivier's kits. I'll point out his very detailed instructions are in French. He's sending me a disc with the MS Word file with the directions and I intend to translate them to English using Bablefish. I'll make this available to BSD when it's done for those who might need it.
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Old Dec 28, 2004, 09:51 PM
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
Tim Wolff's Avatar
United States, MI, Temperance
Joined Sep 2002
6,553 Posts
Ok...I've managed to get myself really excited. I'm extremely pleased with the way the sheeting and cockpit are shaping up on the Baby Ace. The forward top is done in a single piece of balsa wet formed over a CA bottle. This replaces the paper shown in the plans. Paper is the coward's way out .The cockpit sides were cut fron the same wet formed sheet so they have a gentle curve too. The plans show the top sheeting flush with the dashboard, but as I was carving the excess sheeting, I thought a bit of the sheeting overhanging the dash would look better. I cut a 1/16" plug the same shape as the dash and used it as a jig to get a good precise 1/16" overhang. I had to re-cut the cockpit sides. Even easier the second time.

Just holding the stab on the fuse tells me more changes are afoot. It is likely that only half of the elevator will be movable. I may cut out the excess wood on the un-movable half and replace the 1/16" sq. strips behind the "spar".

Your thoughts gentlemen??

Post your own progress too guys!! Feb. 28 is not as far away as it seems
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Last edited by tiberius; Dec 28, 2004 at 09:53 PM.
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Old Dec 28, 2004, 11:07 PM
Team 30 Micro EDF
Mike Taylor's Avatar
Camarillo, California
Joined Apr 2002
4,516 Posts
Yours is comng out nicely - straight and neat. I like the way you have blended the balsa sheet to the stick-work. Very nice.

I'm about in the same place on my Baby Ace. The wife and kids took off for a week, so I got a whole day to myself and finished the fuselage. I haven't covered the forward fuselage yet, but I did finish the block work for the nose and have it glued up and shaped. I made the nose piece and the top of the motor cover removable. I made the top out of some 4.5# balsa wood and glued it to the top of F1 and glued that to front of the two nose laminations in an 'L' shape. The top block will get hollowed out and the whole unit will be held on with magnets. That will make it easy to get to the motor and gearbox.

I am planning on making the wing removable / knock-off. I think I will use wire for the front cabane struts with the top bend back to fit into a fitting under the wing and a magnet at the rear cabane, and most likely magnets to hold the struts in place. I'm still working that one out...

I will be making both side of the elevator movable as well as the rudder. A CF rod joiner will not take up too much room, and a notch will be added to the rudder if needed for clearance. I'll take some photos tomorrow once I have that squared away.

I am planning on leaving some of the bottom of the fuselage open to get to the gear that I will mount low in the fuselage. I need to cover and finish the wings, tail and LG before I decide exactly where to locate the gear.
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Old Dec 28, 2004, 11:07 PM
Registered User
Arlington, TX
Joined Dec 2002
592 Posts
Baby Ace

it's looking good! Nice plane. Keep working. Looks better every day.

Walter
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Old Dec 28, 2004, 11:09 PM
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billystiltner's Avatar
United States, VA, Clintwood
Joined Nov 2002
3,666 Posts
Well
I managed to make a foam fuselage of the Gosling racer.
I broke my hotwire. One of the wires came loose and away went the heat but not the pressure and snap. I did manage to get a few nice big sheets but the foam was not as good of quality as I wanted. I went ahead and tested my plans and glued together a fuselage. The templates work great and the fuselage lines up perfeclty with the 3 view except I somehow got the tail crooked. I think there were wrps in the foam so it os sort of trapezoidal. I drew the plans so that I could make a foam fuselage or a built up balsa fuselage. I guess I'll take some photos after I build the balsa fuselage. The plans are done enough for me to build the plane but need some cleaning up before I share them. I still need to settle on how much sheet to put up front. I have no experience building scale electric models so some advice would be appreciated on the amount of sheet that should go up front. I have come up with 3 options. Sheet all the way back to the firewall, all the way back to the rear engine panel opening, or a back to the front engine panel opening. The real plane had aluminum back to the firewall.

Mike
You can make all the hippie jokes you want I was trying to be funny.
The closest I got to the filmore was the shoreline amp. to see Phish. Phil Lesh came onstage with them. We had just returned from TJ and only had pesos and they wouldnt take them at the gate so we snuck in through the kitchen.


Nice models being posted.
I have said this a lot lately but I'll say it again.
The gosling sure makes a big peanut.
Billy
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Old Dec 30, 2004, 04:31 AM
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FFlover's Avatar
Vienna, Austria
Joined Jul 2004
136 Posts
Some progress....

Nice work guys!!
Here's a pic of my progress on the Bücker,please excuse the horrible quality.
I made the shot with the cam on my cellphone,I'll take some better shots next time.
Feels quite heavy(1,9 g at present),I used quite a bunch of 7lb wood to stiffen it up,it's quite a big model at this wingspan but that's why I chose it(I'm new to this micro stuff).
Still haven't decided if I'll use Ma409 or S8035,I want it to be able to do aerobatics and still feel floaty like larger R/c models that I've flown of the Jungmeister.
Doors will be movable to give access to the servos.
As a power system I'm thinking about the GB54TKPHV or GB54TKPLV from Gasparin but I will decide as soon as I finish the wings.

Dennis
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