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Old Dec 13, 2004, 06:55 PM
Gone Flyin'
Embrun near Ottawa Canada
Joined Oct 2003
190 Posts
Thanks for the links Mike. I hadn't seen that picture of the full size one yet. I have some pictures of the full size one in a couple issue of WW I Aero magazine as well as the plan of Al Backstrom's that appears in Flying Scale Models. That plan is "dime scale:" at about 16" but I think I will enlarge it slightly to 18". I built a number of indoor flyers but larger than this, about 25 to 30 inches with small servos. This will be the first go at something with actuators. I am no stranger to stick and tissue having built many peanuts, walnuts and Bostonian size planes. I am starting to get a real kick out the smaller indoor stuff, I go t tired of IFO's long ago.

I followed the cook up on Small flying Arts when it took place, never had the time to get going on it then.

Thanks again MIke.

to the Bat pole..... er workshop!

cheers, Graham in Embrun near Ottawa Canada
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Old Dec 13, 2004, 10:26 PM
Team 30 Micro EDF
Mike Taylor's Avatar
Camarillo, California
Joined Apr 2002
4,516 Posts
These models were based on the Backstrom plans. For R/C, I think I would add a few more ribs to the tail surfaces...
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Old Dec 14, 2004, 07:01 AM
Registered User
FFlover's Avatar
Vienna, Austria
Joined Jul 2004
136 Posts
Bücker Jungmeister

I'm contemplating joining with a Bücker Jungmeister peanut plan enlarged to 18'' from http://peanut.scale.free.fr/p-bu133.htm
I have Wes Tech 2.4 servos,a JMP rx and a JMP Hf9 I want to use.
Does this sound feasable(don't want to fly at Mach 3 scalespeed)?
Been thinking about ailerons as well,would they make sense?
The Bü 133 at Gasparin's site has ailerons as well (uses actuators though),got me thinking....
cheers,
Dennis
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Last edited by FFlover; Dec 14, 2004 at 09:24 AM. Reason: add. information
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Old Dec 14, 2004, 10:01 AM
Team 30 Micro EDF
Mike Taylor's Avatar
Camarillo, California
Joined Apr 2002
4,516 Posts
Dennis,

That sounds like a great plane to model. The is a flock of Jungmeisters that live in Santa Pala Airport a few miles away, and the group fly-bys are fantastic.

I tried a full-house peanut Pitts (a similar biplane, but with stubbier wings), and it came out a little heavy for the small size. It flew, but flew kind of fast, and it needed more power which would have meant more weight. One too many rough landings retired it for future resurection. On the Pitts, I did find that the small span meant that very little aileron travel was needed for control.

Since the Jungmeister was an aerobatic trainer, I think ailerons would be required! It sound more than reasonable, and if you punched the peanut sized model up to 18", I bet it would fly great.
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Old Dec 14, 2004, 12:27 PM
Gone Flyin'
Embrun near Ottawa Canada
Joined Oct 2003
190 Posts
I printed out a picture of Will Hayes model and I am going to pin it over my workbench as inspiration, I will have to do a pretty good job to get mine looking any where as nice as his!

As to the tail surfaces, my thoughts exactly. I will be changing the structure of bits and pieces as I get along with the build, perhaps even a bit more scale like. I have some good photo's that show the the wings and tail quite well. Problem is, I don't want to get too carried away with detail as it is supposed to be a lightweight indoor flyer after all

cheers, Graham in Embrun near Ottawa Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Taylor
These models were based on the Backstrom plans. For R/C, I think I would add a few more ribs to the tail surfaces...
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Old Dec 14, 2004, 01:34 PM
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
Tim Wolff's Avatar
United States, MI, Temperance
Joined Sep 2002
6,608 Posts
Well, I finally have a useable set of laminated outlines. Wet laminiating is another "art" form that is going to give me trouble. The softer wood had advantages and disadvantages. Went around the curves better, but was easily crushed by the form and the pins holding it in place. About 4 tries got all the parts sorted out. I'll add a pic tonight...
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Old Dec 14, 2004, 02:33 PM
Team 30 Micro EDF
Mike Taylor's Avatar
Camarillo, California
Joined Apr 2002
4,516 Posts
I did an experiment I hadn't ried before when I laminated the outlines this time. I made the first (inside) lamination out of bass wood and the last two from 1/32" balsa. It wrapped around very nicely. All the parts were soaked first in water and it went well.
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Old Dec 14, 2004, 02:48 PM
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
Tim Wolff's Avatar
United States, MI, Temperance
Joined Sep 2002
6,608 Posts
I used 2 strips of 1/16" square balsa. Could that have been part of the source of my trouble? Even when it appeared to easily bend arround the form, the buckling of the inside surface became apparent when they dried.
Any tips on this? I have "usable" outlines, but not "really nice" ones...
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Old Dec 14, 2004, 03:09 PM
LSB
Registered User
Athens , Greece
Joined Jun 2004
44 Posts
Hi
Model boat builders use steam or (if you can stand the smell)
I think ammonia soaking and then heat drying on the form is better.
Also check if the lines of the grain are staight from end to end and if possible use more but thinner (1/32 ?) laminations.... the price is more weight from the glue.
Good luck,
LSB
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Old Dec 14, 2004, 03:51 PM
Team 30 Micro EDF
Mike Taylor's Avatar
Camarillo, California
Joined Apr 2002
4,516 Posts
LSB is correct. Use 1/32" x 1/16" strips. They bend around the form much easier. I just soak the strip wood in warm water for 20 or 30 minutes while I am setting up a work space. This is one place where I don't use the Super Phatic but use regular carpenter's glue (Titebond, Weldwood, Elmer's, etc.), otherwise it gets thinned out too much.
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Old Dec 14, 2004, 07:30 PM
Small Flying Arts
WarPoet's Avatar
Omro, WI
Joined May 2003
54 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiberius
...Small Flying Arts does these Cook Ups on a regular basis with different free flight models...
What a delightful thread to stumble on!
We do indeed enjoy "cookups" at Small Flying Arts, and I've been wondering when this phenomenon would catch on with the R/C folks! I'll be watching progress here with much interest.

Bhagat

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Bhagat Dhillon
Administrator
Small Flying Arts and SFA Forum
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Old Dec 14, 2004, 07:47 PM
Registered User
Arlington, TX
Joined Dec 2002
607 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by planophore
I find the term 3D a misnomer, all of my planes fly in 3D, dimensions that is

Now back on topic. I think, after spending the weekend fussing and pondering and thumbing through many plans and magazines, that I have decided what I am going to build. BAT monoplane. a one off conversion of a British Aerial Transport (flying bomb) that someone in the early 20's added a cockpit and controls for a person to fly. It kind of skirts the lower end of the "Golden Age" but an intriguing and interesting airplane none the less.

Another suggestion, perhaps we could get one of the moderators to put a sticky on this thread so long as it keeps growing and gathering more builders.

cheers, Graham in Embrun near Ottawa Canada.
Where Might I obtain a set of plans to the B.A.T. plane? This looks like a great subject to model.

Walter
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Old Dec 14, 2004, 08:34 PM
Team 30 Micro EDF
Mike Taylor's Avatar
Camarillo, California
Joined Apr 2002
4,516 Posts
I think this is a pirated copy of the plans on a Thai website: http://www.easyairplanes.com/images/plan/bat.pdf
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Old Dec 14, 2004, 08:39 PM
Registered User
Arlington, TX
Joined Dec 2002
607 Posts
Thanks for the site Mike
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Old Dec 14, 2004, 09:14 PM
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
Tim Wolff's Avatar
United States, MI, Temperance
Joined Sep 2002
6,608 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarPoet
What a delightful thread to stumble on!
We do indeed enjoy "cookups" at Small Flying Arts, and I've been wondering when this phenomenon would catch on with the R/C folks! I'll be watching progress here with much interest.

Bhagat

-----------------------------
Bhagat Dhillon
Administrator
Small Flying Arts and SFA Forum

I've learned a ton lurking on Small Flying Arts. There is a lot of crossover from small free flight to micro RC.
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