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Old Dec 11, 2004, 08:20 AM
Registered User
Ithaca, NY USA
Joined Oct 2000
617 Posts
Hi all,

You can find more information about dime scale models here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dimescale/?yguid=43769147

I'm interested in participating but this would be my smallest RC model so I could use some advice. I don't have super light equipment. I will be using a GWS receiver, 6 gram servos, 2 amp esc, and 120 mah NiMH cells. Potential motors are a Mabuchi N20 geared 4:1, Micro 6, and a GWS unit from an old Pico Stick. I have also just purchased a CO2 motor that is supposed to be suitable for a P-30 sized model.

Given the relatively heavy equipment I have, and the 18" span limit, I would probably build a biplane. I have a Nate Sturman plan for the American Eagle A-129 that carrys a lot of wing area. I'd appreciate suggestions for other suitable planes, and advice about how much weight each motor could carry. I wouldn't mind trying rudder only to save weight if necessary.

Thanks in advance,
-Bob
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Last edited by Bob Chiang; Dec 11, 2004 at 08:24 AM.
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Old Dec 11, 2004, 09:49 AM
Team 30 Micro EDF
Mike Taylor's Avatar
Camarillo, California
Joined Apr 2002
4,516 Posts
Bob,

Wow. That's a heavy load for an 18" model to carry - the gear you list is twice the weight of the really micro stuff. It can be done (there are a few threads on Guillow's conversions you could check out), but I don't think you would want to unleash it indoors... The radios we've mentioned weigh 2 to 3 grams, the servo from 1.7 grams to 2.8 grams each, and ESCs are usually built in, or 1 gram if external. That gives a radio weight range of under 6 grams to almost 10 grams. Yours is closer to 17 grams and you still have a battery issue to consider.

I suggest that you find the lowest aspect ratio wings you can to maximize wing area. The widest, stubbiest biplane I know of is the Sopwith "Bee", a 1-off experimental from WWI. At 18" WS, it would have almost a 6" chord and 200 sq. inches! If you know any FAC members, perhaps you could scale up their plans for it, or you can get a sample newsletter for $3 (It's in the Sept-Oct 04 issue). See : http://www.flyingacesclub.net/club/index.php

Other places to look for big biplanes... Any suggestions, guys?
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Old Dec 11, 2004, 09:58 AM
It's a spiderweb of knit lines
Souderton Pa. USA
Joined Mar 2002
2,638 Posts
Hi
I haven't acually built an airplane in...I can't even remember, so I'm in.
Here's a place with hundreds of dime scale rubber kits waiting to be converted: http://www.pennvalleyhobbycenter.com...exaircraft.htm
I have a #1210 New Taylor "CUB" J-2 16" wingspan and a #1275 Taylorcraft 20" wingspan. Not sure which one I'll build yet, but I guess the 18" limit means I'll have to scale one.
Mike
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Old Dec 11, 2004, 10:14 AM
Registered User
Arlington, TX
Joined Dec 2002
589 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by del
Tiberius,
I'm in! But why no profile models? I've built a bunch in the 13-24 inch span
range. No-Cals are a quick build, and fun to see in the air..

I've almost got a 1926 Sout/Ford 2-AT 18" span profile model ready to test fly. Know the 2-AT? It's a single engine precurssor to the Ford/Bill Stout
tri-motor. I'll post pix once I get the landing gear on it.

--del

We originaly thought about this format with the intention of converting the hoards of peanut/dime scale/walnut scale models. I like the idea of hiding all the gear inside the fuse. a peanut fuse versus a profile fuse only adds maybe a gm. But what the hey, I am not going to turn my nose up at a profile model. Welcome, this is not intended to be a competition. Build away, I love to see your models. Just don't let me see you hovering it...

C'mon del, build the other half of the fuse!

Walter
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Old Dec 11, 2004, 10:28 AM
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
Tim Wolff's Avatar
United States, MI, Temperance
Joined Sep 2002
6,537 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by del
Tiberius,
I'm in! But why no profile models? I've built a bunch in the 13-24 inch span
range. No-Cals are a quick build, and fun to see in the air..

I've almost got a 1926 Sout/Ford 2-AT 18" span profile model ready to test fly. Know the 2-AT? It's a single engine precurssor to the Ford/Bill Stout
tri-motor. I'll post pix once I get the landing gear on it.

--del
I've seen some of your models @ NIRAC Del. A Dimer or Walnut sould be no problem for someone of your skill level. I'm gonna be really disappointed if you do a NoCal.
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Old Dec 11, 2004, 10:32 AM
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
Tim Wolff's Avatar
United States, MI, Temperance
Joined Sep 2002
6,537 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Chiang
Hi all,

You can find more information about dime scale models here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dimescale/?yguid=43769147

I'm interested in participating but this would be my smallest RC model so I could use some advice. I don't have super light equipment. I will be using a GWS receiver, 6 gram servos, 2 amp esc, and 120 mah NiMH cells. Potential motors are a Mabuchi N20 geared 4:1, Micro 6, and a GWS unit from an old Pico Stick. I have also just purchased a CO2 motor that is supposed to be suitable for a P-30 sized model.

Given the relatively heavy equipment I have, and the 18" span limit, I would probably build a biplane. I have a Nate Sturman plan for the American Eagle A-129 that carrys a lot of wing area. I'd appreciate suggestions for other suitable planes, and advice about how much weight each motor could carry. I wouldn't mind trying rudder only to save weight if necessary.

Thanks in advance,
-Bob
There is a peanut scale plan about with a huge cord. Fike I think. Scaled up to an 18" span stands about the best chance of carrying the weight of std. gear. About anything 18" with std gear is going to be outdoor or golf dome flying material. Nothing I would try to fly in a gym.

Edit: Here's a link to a pic and details of the Fike E:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=49
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Last edited by tiberius; Dec 11, 2004 at 12:46 PM.
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Old Dec 11, 2004, 10:33 AM
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
Tim Wolff's Avatar
United States, MI, Temperance
Joined Sep 2002
6,537 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcross
Hi
I haven't acually built an airplane in...I can't even remember, so I'm in.
Here's a place with hundreds of dime scale rubber kits waiting to be converted: http://www.pennvalleyhobbycenter.com...exaircraft.htm
I have a #1210 New Taylor "CUB" J-2 16" wingspan and a #1275 Taylorcraft 20" wingspan. Not sure which one I'll build yet, but I guess the 18" limit means I'll have to scale one.
Mike
18" span or less. The 16" J-2 fits right in. Have at it!
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Old Dec 11, 2004, 12:03 PM
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
Tim Wolff's Avatar
United States, MI, Temperance
Joined Sep 2002
6,537 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Taylor
Tiberius,
With the radio, 2 servos (or actuators), 2 batteries, wires, light-weight swith, and a 9 gram N-20 motor you have about another 21 grams, so maybe 40 to 45 grams AUW? At that weight the Kenway N-20 should be more than enough poop. I think the GWS N-20 is heavier than the Kenway...
I like your analysis! And I've got an Kenway N20 setup already! I've only run it with a single cell, and wasn't that impressed. The power from the GWS LPS setup on 2 cells is impressive on my Diddlebug. It easily overpowers the 1.9 oz. plane. But, the 7x6 prop is far too big for the Ace The LPS weighs about 12 grams, so if nose weght is needed, a ratio for a smaller prop might do the trick. The LPS stands a very good chance of not fitting inside the cowl too. I still like the idea of alierons (because I can).

Eyeballing the plans...I'm tempted to laminate the entire wing and tail outline. Two 1/16 lamated peices will replace the 1/16 x 1/8 leading and trailing edges perfectly...Done. Time to start cutting some stuff up!
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Old Dec 11, 2004, 12:27 PM
Team 30 Micro EDF
Mike Taylor's Avatar
Camarillo, California
Joined Apr 2002
4,516 Posts
I've done the whole wing outline laminated. I makes a very resiliant structure with no weak spots. You might consider adding an extra strip at the LE since that takes the most abuse... The 16" WS silver plane of this page http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...4&page=2&pp=30 is done like that (1/32" x 1/16" strips) and has proved to be quite strong.
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Old Dec 11, 2004, 02:02 PM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
6,427 Posts
Ok I'm in. But, in my case it will be one of Olivier Petri's fabulous kits, the Stampe SV4. This cookup will help make me slow down on testing and motor building and build a non-scratch-built plane. Wing span is 16.5". Equipment will likely be JMP servo receiver, Falcon servos, and hopefully a micro brushless outrunner on two cells.

Gordon
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Old Dec 11, 2004, 02:06 PM
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Dave Wulff's Avatar
USA, FL, Fort Lauderdale
Joined Feb 2002
1,902 Posts
Has anyone mentioned a time frame for when this needs to be completed? I have read the thread pretty good, but it wouldn't be the first thing I missed. Without some time boundries I think some (read that "ME") will procrastinate. Tattooed on my butt is "A job will expand to consume the amount of time allotted for it's completition"

Dave
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Old Dec 11, 2004, 02:43 PM
Team 30 Micro EDF
Mike Taylor's Avatar
Camarillo, California
Joined Apr 2002
4,516 Posts
Quote:
The first thing to go will be the kit sheet wood. Three sheets with densities of 8.48 lb/sqft, 13.89 lb/sqft, and 14.18 lb/sqft. Obscene!
OK, I cut out all the parts from the 16 grams + of sheet wood. There are ~6 grams that I am actually going to use, and a lot of those still need trimming. There, I've started...

Gordon,

Cool. I'm sure that you will be able to add some valuable insights to the group. Also, I had got pictures of Oliver's work and really want to see one of those kits go together.

Dave,

Yep, you're right. We haven't set a deadline yet. 2 months is a pretty standard time frame, and to give winter-weather modelers a couple more weekend indoor sessions, the deadline is midnight (12:00 PM) Monday, Feb. 28, 2005 PST. That should give you time to get kits, supplies and build at least on of these planes, maybe two (except Gordon who may still be punching out all those ribs )!
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Last edited by Mike Taylor; Dec 12, 2004 at 09:39 AM.
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Old Dec 11, 2004, 03:09 PM
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billystiltner's Avatar
United States, VA, Clintwood
Joined Nov 2002
3,666 Posts
I have all the outlines for the Gosling drawn plus centerlines for the cross members, braces, rib spacing etc. Have the RAF 15 airfoil imported and scaled to the correct size. Seeing the photos Gordon posted makes me want to rethink the wood sizes to more scale like. I had chosen 1/20" because it scales to an 8" span as 1/32" and to 16" span as 1/16" so If you draw a peanut plan with 1/20" wood the the thing will scale appropriately to pistachio and dime scale(I know for FAC contests new plans must be approved etc..). I printed out a side view and the thing looks too big for pager power. The fuse will be larger than any of the other peanuts I built. It's actually bigger in section than the dimescale Fokker D-8. I'm thinking if I keep everything as light as possible that it may work with the 4.5 ohm motor geared 6.7:1 and a 5x3 prop.This may require building the entire top half of the OX 5 and not sheeting in the front.or maybe just do like Jiro done with the engine and instead of sheeting with wood - build a frame and sheet with tissue. I thought the scale prop was smaller but turns out its about 4.6" so a 5x3 would allow scale landing gear.
Modifications I 'll have to make is thrust line and wing incidence. JMPs Huntington looks about the correct incidence. The more I look at the big fuse the more I want to scale it down to about 10" span or so. Have also thought about building the fuse with foam and the rest with stick and tissue. This would be a good subject for that as the fuse was ply and the wings were covered.

Billy
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Old Dec 11, 2004, 07:52 PM
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
Tim Wolff's Avatar
United States, MI, Temperance
Joined Sep 2002
6,537 Posts
Hard work often pays off over time. But, lazyniess always pays off now.

The Feb. 28 deadline sounds like it should be enough time.

My lamination templates are cut out...started enough for me

Gordon, That looks incredible. Where can you get those kits??
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Last edited by tiberius; Dec 26, 2004 at 08:27 AM.
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Old Dec 11, 2004, 07:54 PM
Registered User
Fairfax Station, VA
Joined Jan 2004
276 Posts
I have plans for a 1930's Viking 18 inch wingspan polyhedral model - not actually scale of any actual aircraft I know of. It is in an old Aeromodeller magazine. Would this qualify as Dimescale?
AlH
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