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Old Dec 10, 2004, 10:17 AM
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
Tim Wolff's Avatar
United States, MI, Temperance
Joined Sep 2002
6,534 Posts
Walnut/Dime Scale Cook Up!

A few of us have been chatting about this in another thread. Small Flying Arts does these Cook Ups on a regular basis with different free flight models. A number of modelers working on similar projects compliment each other very well. The chance to learn from each other is enormous. It keeps everyone motivated and on track. There is plenty of talent on e-zone to do something similar here. This group is capable of much more than tails and wings mounted on a stick fuse. Jump in a prove it. These builds are all about developing everyone’s modeling skill. I encourage everyone to participate. There should be enough experienced modelers to help the less experienced through the rough spots.

Subjects for Cook Ups are normally limited to a theme of some sort. Usually by size and era. Sometimes limited to a single design or plan. The Golden Era (between the great wars) offers a wealth of possible subjects from simple to complex and appears to be the Era of choice for this initial Cook Up. I expect that nearly all subjects will be free flight conversions. Wing spans of 18” and smaller are well suited to available power and radio control systems so Walnut and Dime scale free flight models should be the targets. Models this size have the wing area to carry the needed equipment and still be great indoor flyers. There is a boatload of free plans available on the net. If you have another size plan of a subject you like, scale it up or down to ~ 16” to 18” span and have at it. I have a number of Walnut and Dime scale plans in my “inventory”. They are available to anyone for the asking, but please don’t ask for copies of copyrighted plans (ie: those currently available for sale as kits or plans).

A few simple guidelines from Rocketman209:

1.Golden age theme builds. (don't forget the way cool between the war military types)
2.Walnut Scale or smaller. Limit 18 inch wing span.
3.Full Scale fuse (not No-cal). No need for precision scale, if it existed,
just a reasonable scale build with interesting scale and building features.
4. Some kind of RC control. (I think any “remote” control would be welcome).
5. No hovering unless you are prepared to be accused of building a helicopter.

This is not a contest! The only prizes are modeling knowledge, the satisfaction of a job well done, and, with a bit of luck, a great flying indoor model.

…more
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Last edited by tiberius; Dec 10, 2004 at 10:28 AM.
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 11:40 AM
Registered User
Oskaloosa Municipal, Iowa, United States
Joined Jan 2002
89 Posts
tiberius -
I LIKE it!!! I especially like the guidelines and in particular, #5. Count me in.
Scott C.
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 12:12 PM
Freezing my Lipo's off.
gravitic anomaly's Avatar
Princeton,Minnesota USA
Joined Oct 2004
89 Posts
here is a webpage I have bookmarked. This might provide some inspiration!

http://f1.pg.briefcase.yahoo.com/dmlivesay
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 12:12 PM
Team 30 Micro EDF
Mike Taylor's Avatar
Camarillo, California
Joined Apr 2002
4,516 Posts
Tiberius,

Sounds good except for the 'no prizes' part. I reserve the right to award a prize or two if there are particularly deserving entries!

Judging criteria is simple:

1) Planes have to fly - not neccessarily well - but they will have to fly at least once and a picture of it flying has to be posted.
2) Planes need to show good workmanship. They don't need to be complex designs, but they need to be made neatly.
3) Planes entered must be built as part of this cook-up and build photos must be included in the thread.
4) Judge's (that's me) descision(s) are final.
5) Prize(s) awarded may be kits, plans, materials, or radio gear - again, my choice.
6) Winning planes must knock my socks off!

Simple enough? Then let the sock-knocking begin!
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 12:51 PM
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
Tim Wolff's Avatar
United States, MI, Temperance
Joined Sep 2002
6,534 Posts
Ok, "I" will not be awarding any prizes beyond those listed in the first post!!

Welcome aboard Scott!

gravitic anomaly, I hope you're in too!
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 03:23 PM
Registered User
Arlington, TX
Joined Dec 2002
588 Posts
Whoo hooo!

Im in.

My favorite models are golden age, but I also have a hankering for WW1 build... Compromise! Bristol M-1 Gypsy racer in dime scale. WW1 monoplane fighter, rebuilt and re engined and raced after the war. I will build the racing version. Its ok? I think I will start the build before anyone protests.

Thanks to Small Flying Arts for the plan.

http://www.smallflyingarts.com/Free_...free_plans.htm

Walter
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 04:49 PM
Team30 Micro EDF
NitroCharged's Avatar
Adelaide, Australia
Joined Apr 2004
11,181 Posts
ok...ignorance here - whats a dime scale equal?
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 05:11 PM
Team 30 Micro EDF
Mike Taylor's Avatar
Camarillo, California
Joined Apr 2002
4,516 Posts
'Dime scale' refers to planes like those that were produced in the 30's and 40's and sold for a dime each. They are about 16" WS, very simple construction and made of 1/16" square sticks covered with tissue. Their characteristics include use of very few ribs and formers, rather rough adherence to scale-ness, no vacuum or plunge-formed plastic parts, and no laminated parts like wing tips. Look at the SFA page referenced above. The Bristol will give you an ideal of what 'dime scale' is all about... Note the reference to one wing tip showing laminations which make it illegal for FAC Dime scale. Since this is not a sactioned FAC event, you can laminate to your hearts content.

Or try this (working) link to Dave Lindsey's model plans: http://mywebpage.netscape.com/dmlivesay/index.html and look at the 'dime scale' collection.

Dave Cowell at DPCModels also makes dime scale reproductions of some old Comet kits in 'short run' configuration (you get the plans and laser cut formers and ribs - you supply the rest) for $7.50 a pop. The Art Chester racer (the 'Jeep'), among the others, is a perfect example of what dime scale is. See: http://www.dpcmodels.homestead.com/SRKS.html

Hope this helps.
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 08:45 PM
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United States, VA, Clintwood
Joined Nov 2002
3,666 Posts
I hope you guys dont mind if I join in and build a peanut.
I have chosen the Waterman Gosling. Some nice photos of a model here.
http://www.mindspring.com/~thayer5/f...o/jsvisit.html
An actual photo of the plane here.
http://www.aerofiles.com/_water.html
I have been eyeing this plane for quite sometime and started a foam pistachio scale version. I have 3 sets of plans - A.J. Taylor, Don Strull, and Capt Dave Stott(Peanut scale). I like all 3 sets of plans - Don Strull's are the version I would like to build but it has no lettering. It has some nice features for a scale model - exposed cylinders, exposed radiator with what looks like a pressure guage, spoked wheels, fabric wings and tail feathers.
The plans by Capt Dave Stott has lettering but all the other plans show no lettering.


I found this 3 view which I think I'll use as a reference to draw up plans.
http://www.aviacherteg.narod.ru/avia...osling_HAA.htm

The 3 sets of plans I have will make good references as well.

I seen a site which was linked to here the other day with a photo of an RC peanut scale Waterman Gosling.

Does anyone know of any other photos of the Waterman Gosling?

I would like to make an access for the motor but try and keep the lines scale
I noticed some rivets outlining a panel on the side that might make a nice side hatch , but I was thinking like making the whole front end back to the first strut from sheet then cutting it in half (top to bottom) and either make the top or bottom removeable. Then either the turtle deck or a hatch under the seat would remove for access to the battery,rx, actuators. Maybe the actuators can go in the tail as the nose is not too short but the motor with big gears may need shifting back for clearance. Unless of course I used small gears. 4:1 with 4.5 ohm Didel 6mm pager would be good gearing for a scale size prop but maybe a little higher gearing and a little larger prop will be needed for flying performance. On the 3 view it appears the control horns are all contained inside the tail which is a bummer but the ailerons have exposed horns which makes up for it.

Billy
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 08:54 PM
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Arlington, TX
Joined Dec 2002
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Very cool billy

Who will be the first to post a pic of an airplane part?

Walter
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 10:11 PM
Gravity is a harsh mistress.
Tim Wolff's Avatar
United States, MI, Temperance
Joined Sep 2002
6,534 Posts
That looks like a nice subject Billy. We chose the Dime/Walnut scale size to increase the chances for good flying planes. But, you're Peanut is welcome as far as I'm concerend.

I'll be attempting a Peck-Polymers Corbin Baby Ace in Walnut Scale. The first thing to go will be the kit sheet wood. Three sheets with densities of 8.48 lb/sqft, 13.89 lb/sqft, and 14.18 lb/sqft. Obscene! It dosen't make it look good for the strip stock either. The tail begs to be wet laminated and I'll do the wing tips too, as long as I'm laminating.

A couple of online density calculators:
http://www.indoorduration.com/BalsaCalc.asp
http://www.nclra.org/Programs/BalsaDensity.php

A number of things to decide before I begin. I have a set of Falcon 1.7g servos and JMP servo combo on the shelf. Falcons or actuators (also in stock)? I'd like to do it full house too. 4th channel and 2-cell are in stock options too. Then, what to power it with?

Full house Falcons on 2 cells with a N20 based GWS LPS power system may get heavy fast. My gut tells me that this would be a great setup for 2 to 2.5 oz flying weight.

Single cell rudder/elevator on Falcons would prob. be the lightest option, but I'm wondering if a geared M20 would power it. I think the N20 based LPS would be too heavy or low-power on a single cell. No alierons also make the dihedrial more critical. Something a NoCal Corsair taught me..

Thoughts??
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Last edited by tiberius; Dec 10, 2004 at 10:23 PM.
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Old Dec 10, 2004, 10:55 PM
del
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north of Chicago
Joined Feb 2003
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No profile scale? Why?

Tiberius,
I'm in! But why no profile models? I've built a bunch in the 13-24 inch span
range. No-Cals are a quick build, and fun to see in the air..

I've almost got a 1926 Sout/Ford 2-AT 18" span profile model ready to test fly. Know the 2-AT? It's a single engine precurssor to the Ford/Bill Stout
tri-motor. I'll post pix once I get the landing gear on it.

--del
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Last edited by del; Dec 10, 2004 at 11:02 PM.
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Old Dec 11, 2004, 01:42 AM
Team 30 Micro EDF
Mike Taylor's Avatar
Camarillo, California
Joined Apr 2002
4,516 Posts
Tiberius,

I don't believe the geared M-20 will pull a plane at the stated weight. An N-20 would be quite adequate, though, if you keep the weight down. My full-house, dual cell Abatross is over 2 ounces, and it is a heavier model. It gets off the ground, but it is stretching the limits of the N-20 power plant. I need to measure the thrust I get with some of the N-20s I have here to see what they really develop, but I feel they are in the 30 grams plus range from they way they pull 30 to 36 gram planes with plenty of authority...

The Peck Baby Ace has 51 square inches of wing, a good size. I'm betting that you can control the airframe weight to about 21 grams finished (my SE-5, less wheels, weighs just over 15 grams covered but not doped). All the wood in the box and the Peck plastic parts still in the sheet weighs 21 grams including the strip wood. Since you cut away half or more of the sheet wood, and some of the parts are for CO2 only, even using the kit wood you should be able to get away for about 14 grams plus LG and covering, and lighter wood and laminated tips and tail gets you even better numbers.

With the radio, 2 servos (or actuators), 2 batteries, wires, light-weight swith, and a 9 gram N-20 motor you have about another 21 grams, so maybe 40 to 45 grams AUW? At that weight the Kenway N-20 should be more than enough poop. I think the GWS N-20 is heavier than the Kenway...

Since the Baby Ace is a high wing parasol, rudder/elevator should be fine. The Corsair is a whole different can of worms...
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Old Dec 11, 2004, 02:19 AM
del
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north of Chicago
Joined Feb 2003
1,827 Posts
Two ounces or more??!!!???

Just say no!!

Or say yes to no-cal...
--del
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Last edited by del; Dec 11, 2004 at 02:22 AM.
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Old Dec 11, 2004, 04:43 AM
www.jmquetin.com
jmquetin's Avatar
Paris - France
Joined Aug 2003
195 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gravitic anomaly
Here is a webpage I have bookmarked. This might provide some inspiration!
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/dmlivesay/index.html - This one works.
There is another one guys !
http://jmquetin.free.fr/1indoor/Peanut1e.htm

I just need to take an in-flight picture to jump in

Jean-Michel.
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