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Old Dec 01, 2004, 12:05 AM
Castle Tech
Joe Ford's Avatar
Olathe, KS
Joined Aug 2003
4,889 Posts
Understood but its these same characteristics (ability to hover and pull out meaning high T/W) that make good aerobatic aircraft. Higher T/W will let me perform any maneuver at any height I desire while giving me more throttle control yes? I've hovered harder planes than this.


Edit:

This the next part of the 40A Cap 232 Stevens AeroModel thread. You can go to 40A Cap 232 Stevens AeroModel Part 3 for the last installment. Enjoy!

Part2:
40A Cap 232 Stevens AeroModel Part 2


Part1:
40A Cap 232 Stevens AeroModel Part 1

Greg Gallegos
Ezone Sports Planes Moderator
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Last edited by GregG; Dec 07, 2004 at 04:44 AM.
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Old Dec 01, 2004, 08:46 AM
Scott Stoops
sukhoi26mx's Avatar
United States, CO, Longmont
Joined Mar 2002
8,411 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrkSdeOTM
Understood but its these same characteristics (ability to hover and pull out meaning high T/W) that make good aerobatic aircraft. Higher T/W will let me perform any maneuver at any height I desire while giving me more throttle control yes? I've hovered harder planes than this.
High thrust to weight is a nice safety net for low work, but it doesn't make a good aerobatic aircraft, it just makes for an overpowered aerobatic aircraft (not a bad thing). A higher thrust to weight won't help a model snap, spin, start and stop rolls precisely, track clean lines or have any of the other important traits for a precision model. As long as you are working from the premise that the Cap isn't a 3D model, I'm sure you'll be happy with it.

With the Axi 2820 propped for 400 watts and 43 oz, I get unlimited vertical, and a climb from a hover, but not a "punchout" re: vertical acceleration from a stop. For me, it is plenty of power.

Hope that helps.

Scott
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Old Dec 01, 2004, 03:56 PM
A Clinger
rclark's Avatar
Butte, MT
Joined Sep 2001
7,072 Posts
Quote:
With the Axi 2820 propped for 400 watts and 43 oz, I get unlimited vertical, and a climb from a hover, but not a "punchout" re: vertical acceleration from a stop. For me, it is plenty of power.
. Ditto with the AXI 2826/10 (another good fit for the CAP) propped for 400 watts and 46ozs .... I suppose one could go to 4S2P (the motor will handle it) and get 'explosive' punch out instead of nice steady pull out but that's not what the Cap is all about ....
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Old Dec 01, 2004, 04:00 PM
Castle Tech
Joe Ford's Avatar
Olathe, KS
Joined Aug 2003
4,889 Posts
Thats more my personal preference than anything. I overpower ALL my planes...my friends would think something was wrong if I didnt.
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Old Dec 01, 2004, 04:17 PM
Does anyone hear a cat?
headless's Avatar
Tallahassee, FL
Joined Sep 2003
4,380 Posts
I bet a 2826 on 4s would be perfect for the cap. My personal feeling is that it could use just a little bit more pitch speed than the 2820/10 12x6 combo. Some more thrust would be nice towards the tail end of the battery charge; i have found myself landing my 3s2p packs with only 3000mah out of them (out of 4200 or somAh total) as i lose the vertical climbout after that much is taken out... i think i might pick up a 2826 and see how 4s works on it. I overpower all of my planes too; i've been in denial about the cap though and it does have adequate power w/ the 2820/10.
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Old Dec 01, 2004, 04:28 PM
Don't watch this...
CooHead's Avatar
Northern IL
Joined Oct 2003
5,583 Posts
Yea guys he does.
He just bought a TM400...hate to see what he does to that docile flyer (looking forward to it tho )
DarkSide is a speed freak...over powered wings...150+MPH pylon planes...huge climb out Electrostreak type thing...strong, fast, loud UglyStick. Silly fast ships. But I've shown him the interesting aspect of pattern and 3D with my MM DandySportGT and FlashBack and Panic 3D and now SA G480...I might get him to slow down...a bit.

I guess a guy that comes from Calif and learns the sport thru slope soaring and thermalling a wing with no motor ends up wishing for and persuing some powered flight He's just trying to make up for all those flights with out a motor

I really wanted him to get the IPS powered Pico TigerMoth THAT would have been funny to see his face flying that thing Just "powering it up" on the bench would have knocked him over

To each his own. I obviously know the guy. Great guy. Very knowledgable, utterly safe attitude and good flyer with fast reflexs and plenty of time and money.

Poor little TM400 he is building, it doesn't know what it's getting into

Coo
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Old Dec 01, 2004, 04:30 PM
Does anyone hear a cat?
headless's Avatar
Tallahassee, FL
Joined Sep 2003
4,380 Posts
I folded the wing on my tm400 in 3 days flat Not a good candidate for overpowerage :-P

Did some quick comparisons... looks like going to a 4s setup on the 2826/10 would net around 75-80oz thrust. 1/5oz extra motor weight plus 2 extra cells (4s2p instead of 3s2p)...assuming tp2100's that would only be 3.5oz extra weight total for an increase of 15mph pitch speed and 15-20oz of thrust over the 3s2p 2820/10 setup. Going up to a 13" prop or 14" prop and a 2826/12 could really net some serious thrust but i think i'd prefer some added speed and just a small boost to thrust.
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Old Dec 01, 2004, 04:34 PM
A Clinger
rclark's Avatar
Butte, MT
Joined Sep 2001
7,072 Posts
Headless, I REALLY don't think you 'need' to go with a 4S2P with this plane with the 2826/10 . I think it would be way overkill . Twist the nose right off power or the wings . I mean, I got all the power/speed one (me anyway ) would need right now flipping a 13x8E with this motor . I never measured the static thrust (no setup), but thrustcalc said something like 75oz of thrust at the measured RPM ..... I just know I have 'plenty' .... BTW looking over at the Great Motor Test My 75oz or so looks in the ball park (64-78)... Of course I am at 5200 ASL so probably a bit less ....
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Old Dec 01, 2004, 05:00 PM
Does anyone hear a cat?
headless's Avatar
Tallahassee, FL
Joined Sep 2003
4,380 Posts
What does your 13x8 pull static amp-wise, rclark? I'm trying to get a feel for the options. I think that a 13x8 may not have enough pitch speed perhaps... any idea what kind of RPM's your getting? Would be nice to be able to keep using my 3s packs... if 3s2p on the 2826 w/ a 13x8 delivers 75oz thrust then it would probably be better than the 4s setup really, less added weight same benefit.
maybe i should go straight to 6s2p hahaha...
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Old Dec 01, 2004, 06:55 PM
Castle Tech
Joe Ford's Avatar
Olathe, KS
Joined Aug 2003
4,889 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by headless
I folded the wing on my tm400 in 3 days flat Not a good candidate for overpowerage :-P
I'll be glassing the entire thing, CF wing struts, extra carbon spars lengthwise down the wings...I'll let you know how it goes...with the power system I'm putting it in, I can afford a LOT of extra weight.

Thanks for the kind words Coo. Really glad you got me interested in learning a new type of flying. And guys, he's just being modest...he can hold his own...I'm sure he could handle some of my beasts. I'll certainly let him fly this CAP when its done. Looks like I'm gonna have to run some more motocalc #'s with the suggestions you guys made. Thanks a bunch for your help.
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Old Dec 01, 2004, 06:57 PM
A Clinger
rclark's Avatar
Butte, MT
Joined Sep 2001
7,072 Posts
headless,

from the power forum sticky on my Cap ...


Model: SA CAP232 40E
Motor: AXI 2826/10
ESC: CC Phoenix 45
Cell type/count: 3S2P LiPo 4400 and 5200 packs
Prop: APC 13x8E
Reduction/Gear Ratio: DD
Amps : 39.5
Volts : 10.5
Watts : 415
RPM: 7400
Weight Ready to Fly: 46 oz
Comments: excellent combo, no problems at all.

And, Not enough PS??? How fast are you planning on flying this bird anyway?? It's not intended to fly as a ProJeti you know ....
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Last edited by rclark; Dec 01, 2004 at 07:03 PM.
Old Dec 01, 2004, 07:09 PM
FASST flyer
KatManDEW's Avatar
USA, OH, Newark
Joined Sep 2001
3,563 Posts
Any noticable gyrational forces with AXI motors on this model? With smaller AXI's in my smaller planes, I can trim for level flight at half throttle, and above half throttle the model rolls left, and below half throttle the model rolls right.
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Old Dec 01, 2004, 09:13 PM
Does anyone hear a cat?
headless's Avatar
Tallahassee, FL
Joined Sep 2003
4,380 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rclark
headless,

from the power forum sticky on my Cap ...

good info, thanks!

And, Not enough PS??? How fast are you planning on flying this bird anyway?? It's not intended to fly as a ProJeti you know ....

I dunno it's just that my GWS spitfire beats the cap-40e by at least 15mph and it's a quarter the size; it feels kinda wrong. I'd like to get the cap's top speed to around 60mph. Would look nicer in low passes at over 50mph and would be something the gas guys at the field would be more impressed by. Not to mention helping roll rate -- i find the cap rolls pretty slowly even at 125% throws on my ailerons.
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Old Dec 01, 2004, 10:16 PM
Use the 4S Luke
feathermerchant's Avatar
USA, TX, Euless
Joined Aug 2003
9,341 Posts
Mine rolls fast enough to disorient me. Work on your throws. At WOT I switch to low rates so its not so jittery.
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Old Dec 01, 2004, 10:25 PM
Does anyone hear a cat?
headless's Avatar
Tallahassee, FL
Joined Sep 2003
4,380 Posts
I am using HS-81's on an eclipse 7 with epa set to 125% both directions AND dual rates at 125% and i find the roll rate to be fairly lethargic... how many degrees of deflection do you get from your ailerons? I can't imagine the plane rolling fast enough to be disorienting, i can keep track of 5rolls/sec easily seems like the cap is only managing maybe 1
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