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Old May 25, 2008, 04:14 PM
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Phoenix, AZ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rperego
I noticed the same thing, but for the LG I used what I think you are calling the cowl screws. For the cowl I used the smaller screws meant for the struts. Not sure you'll have enough to do this - I used the E-fliteline wood struts which need bigger screws. But, if you attached the cowl already with the bigger screws you'll have to plug the holes for the smaller ones to work.

A number zero screw will probably be about the right size - but good luck finding them. My local Ace hardware is ordering an assortment of number 0's and 1's for me as they are hard to find - especially ferrous ones so your magnetized screw driver will work (small parts, old hands)
Thanks rperego. I'll be using the E-flightline struts too, and haven't attached the cowl, so your answer is a big help as we'll have the same setup. Does the E-flight strut kit come with the appropriate large screws ? If not, what do you think I'll need?

Thanks again!
Dave
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Old May 25, 2008, 04:47 PM
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I used #1 screws to attach the E-fliteline struts. I had to drill the struts but as I remember they fit the existing laser cut tab holes without splitting the wood. I think I used 1/4" long for the outer struts to tabs, and 3/8" where the inner struts attach to the fuse backing blocks. (if you don't own a set of numbered drill bits they are priceless for modeling)

The E-fliteline backing blocks are thicker than the GWS plastic ones so I made the foam insets a little deeper. I also angled the insets so when attaching the inner struts they don't try to bend. You'll notice the pre-formed insets are not verticaly straight with the struts when installed. It wouldn't matter much with the flimsy GWS struts but with the wood ones I didn't want to stress the backing blocks when tightening the screws.

Can send a close up pic of my cross bracing wires if you like, but if you do this it is way easier to drill the small holes for them in the tabs just below the strut screw hole BEFORE gluing in the tabs. I used 50lb test Kevlar which threads nicely through a #60 hole and won't pull through the hole with a figure 8 knot and a dab of CA. I think I posted earlier that approx. a 4 degree angle on the tabs gets them vertically in line with the outer struts.

Have fun - I swore and made up all sorts of rude things GWS stands for but with a lot of fussing it is a sweet little plane.
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Old May 25, 2008, 05:05 PM
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Forgot to answer your question - no they don't come with screws although given how hard it is to find small screws they ought to up the price by a buck and include some.

BTW, I maidened last night and wished I had extended the ailerons inwards as Tom Frank did. Even with agressive airleron throws, you can have a cup of coffee while it rolls
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Old May 25, 2008, 05:20 PM
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Post the photos

Quote:
Originally Posted by rperego
...........Can send a close up pic of my cross bracing wires if you like, but if you do this it is way easier to drill the small holes for them in the tabs just below the strut screw hole BEFORE gluing in the tabs. .................Have fun - I swore and made up all sorts of rude things GWS stands for but with a lot of fussing it is a sweet little plane.
Hey, for our edification [we adults like photos, just like kids] whey not go ahead and post them?

GWS;yes, boo the instr, but praise the results.... yes, they get a LOT of criticism, but look at all the folks they make happy with their prices and resulting fun.

Besides, if their instrs were CLEAR AS DAY, we'd have FAR LESS to talk about, right? ha.

LarryR : )
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Old May 25, 2008, 06:15 PM
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Phoenix, AZ
Joined May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rperego
I used #1 screws to attach the E-fliteline struts. I had to drill the struts but as I remember they fit the existing laser cut tab holes without splitting the wood. I think I used 1/4" long for the outer struts to tabs, and 3/8" where the inner struts attach to the fuse backing blocks. (if you don't own a set of numbered drill bits they are priceless for modeling)

The E-fliteline backing blocks are thicker than the GWS plastic ones so I made the foam insets a little deeper. I also angled the insets so when attaching the inner struts they don't try to bend. You'll notice the pre-formed insets are not verticaly straight with the struts when installed. It wouldn't matter much with the flimsy GWS struts but with the wood ones I didn't want to stress the backing blocks when tightening the screws.

Can send a close up pic of my cross bracing wires if you like, but if you do this it is way easier to drill the small holes for them in the tabs just below the strut screw hole BEFORE gluing in the tabs. I used 50lb test Kevlar which threads nicely through a #60 hole and won't pull through the hole with a figure 8 knot and a dab of CA. I think I posted earlier that approx. a 4 degree angle on the tabs gets them vertically in line with the outer struts.

Have fun - I swore and made up all sorts of rude things GWS stands for but with a lot of fussing it is a sweet little plane.
Thanks for the great, and yes ... pics would be awesome. Glad to hear that your maiden went well ! BTW, how does when measure an angle like 4 deg. on these models ? My guess is I'm missing a tool that I'll be anxious to buy. Any recommendations on where to look for the numbered drill set ? I was at the LHS looking for some but they were out.

thanks again,
Dave
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Old May 25, 2008, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azdavidr
Thanks for the great, and yes ... pics would be awesome. Glad to hear that your maiden went well ! BTW, how does when measure an angle like 4 deg. on these models ? My guess is I'm missing a tool that I'll be anxious to buy. Any recommendations on where to look for the numbered drill set ? I was at the LHS looking for some but they were out.

thanks again,
Dave
Dave, I use "numbered" drills to bore out GWS props to fit my "5mm" collet adaptors (different brands are slightly different). I got these at ACE hardware... they have a large case of them... dozens and dozens od sizes... sold singly. I didn't notice if they sell sets, but there are so many closely sized to one another, it would be a large set to get them all.
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Old Jun 25, 2008, 12:13 PM
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USA, PA, Media
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Hi all,
Im probably going to order the tm400 in a day or two... but i want to put it on floats. Any idea what size prop will work on it with floats? I was thinking of using a BP-12y... so it is looking for a 9-10" diameter prop. Want to know so I know if i have to order a new motor and what props to order (like doing that all at the same time).

Thanks.

Rick
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Old Jun 25, 2008, 01:11 PM
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United States, MI, Manchester
Joined May 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick06
Hi all,
Any idea what size prop will work on it with floats? thanks. Rick
Rick
go back to page 21 to see my TM400 on wheels and also on floats

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...&page=21&pp=15

my set-up info is there also

PS I smashed it on a sandbar in Grand Marais, MI last summer....oh well, was fun while it lasted

Beagle
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 06:19 PM
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Dave - for numbered drill bits, check out HarborFreight - http://search.harborfreight.com/cpis...+bit&Submit=Go

The 60 piece set price is about what you'll pay for only 6 or 7 individual ones. The bigger set is also a pretty good price.

Will take pics of my cross "wire" attachments.

Bob
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 07:43 PM
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Dave - here are pics showing the attachment points for my cross brace "wires". The tabs are made from bits of flexible plastic. For the inner lowers on the wing, there is a backing plate for screwing into that I imbedded in the foam and spackled over. As you can see from my not very tidy attachment of the Kevlar, keeping the thread tight while making a knot isn't easy.

I just saw a new TM build the other day where the fellow put a CF rod in the bottom of the upper wing, the same length as the lower one (had to notch the cabanes). He did this because with his first TM he snapped the upper wing just outboard of the cabanes. All I can figure is with the flex that the stock struts have, in say an aggressive outside loop, the struts flex instead of transferring the load to the bottom wing. He did not reinforce the struts (other posts) or use the E-flightline plywood ones.

Same fellow also installed upper ailerons - huge difference in roll rates.
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 07:49 PM
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Kingston, Canada
Joined Jun 2004
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I put upper ails. too just to sluggish without them for good roll rate. I also extended the lower ails. all the way in to the fuse. Ail. pushrods are 1/16 carbon fibre. Wire ends are wrapped with dental floss and CA.

Gord.
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 09:55 PM
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Gord - can you say more about how you adapted the ends of CF for attaching to whatever you glued into the ailerons (like a piece of control arm)?

Thanks, Bob
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Old Jun 26, 2008, 10:34 PM
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Yes, they're 1/16 aircraft ply tabs 3/4 in long and set into the ail so there is 3/16 sticking out past the trailing edge. Hot glued into a slot in the ail. Cut to match the thickness of the aileron. 1 mm hole drilled for the 1 mm pushrod wire is 3/32 from the trailing edge, or halfway between the trailing edge and the end of the tab. Z bend in the upper pushrod wire to ail. tab. Bottom has a L bend and nylink to keep it on. Hope this helps Bob. More info if needed.

Gord.
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Old Jun 27, 2008, 02:47 AM
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Bob, for the upper aileron I have also used some of that very thick clear plastic that is used to encase so many things for retail display nowadays... you know... the stuff you need tin snips to cut through! I keep pieces of this for many RC plane uses, including those "invisible" cross braces I put on my TM outer struts.

I cut a slice in the aileron TE, epoxied in a narrow strip of this plastic so that it extends far enough behind the TE for a hole to be drilled for the connector where it won't bind on the aileron when deflected. It's really tough stuff and it's cheap! But equally important, it can deflect slightly if needed and will not bind when the ailerons move, which can happen when the two ailerons don't have their hinge lines parallel. You'll also get some mechanical differential in the deflection between the two ailerons in this case. You can minimize this if you can tie the two ailerons together at a point where their TEs cross when looking perpendicular down on the two wings. I can't recall if the TM wings are like this or not... to lazy and tired to go look! I think they have the same sweep angle, so the hinge lines should be parallel.

When I did this with a different plane, I had these problems. And I found it necessary to put a "v" bend in the connecting wire between the ailerons in order to get them to both be at a perfect neutral position at the same time. It's next to impossible to bend wire perfectly to get perfect alignment, so a means of making small adjustments is needed.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jun 27, 2008 at 02:52 AM.
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Old Jun 27, 2008, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rperego
...
I just saw a new TM build the other day where the fellow put a CF rod in the bottom of the upper wing, the same length as the lower one (had to notch the cabanes). He did this because with his first TM he snapped the upper wing just outboard of the cabanes. All I can figure is with the flex that the stock struts have, in say an aggressive outside loop, the struts flex instead of transferring the load to the bottom wing. He did not reinforce the struts (other posts) or use the E-flightline plywood ones.
I use a CF tube spar in the upper wing, too... a precaution after breaking the upper wing on my GWS PT-17 with SUPER flimsy struts both inboard and outboard. But I also did it to help keep the wing deflection low in high G maneuvers. I also replaced the stock fiberglas spar in the lower wing with lighter but stiffer CF tube, too. With two wings loading up the standard dia. GWS fiberglas spar, the deflection can get excessive.

But there are some that will say you're not supposed to fly this semi-scale plane like that...... and they'd be right!
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