HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Apr 02, 2008, 03:23 PM
Registered User
Joined Jul 2007
230 Posts
Chuck - I may be able to take a pic, but I think this will give you a mental picture:

First, the top fuse seam is straight all the way to where the front of the horz. stab. will be. Vewied from the back, the squared off end of the fuse is approx. 5/8 x 1 5/8". Blocking the wing just like you did only right side up, and then putting a square up to the end of the fuse, my twist is 1/16" over the 1 5/8 side. Given the rudder is 1/2" thick, I can block sand the lower portion of the last few inches of the fuse to make it look right and still have the end of the fuse at least as thick as the rudder.

When I glued the fuse, I favored getting the halves aligned correctly where the lower wing attaches - which I would recommend even if it means flushing some other places up with sand paper. I think the twist might have been caused by the foam pins and corresponding holes in the opposite side. If these are off, they'll force the fuse to something other than straight - especially at the back. If I do this again, I'll be more careful when dry fitting the halves together to see if things are off.

Speaking of "off", I noticed this in time, but when cutting the ailerons and elevator apart, first look from the ends to see if the bevels match up top and bottom. Mine didn't so I had to compromise the cut. Given where this was the case, the leading and trailing edges also had ridges, I think GWS failed to line up the mold halves. If I build another GWS plane, I'll defintely pay the few extra bucks at a hobby shop so I can inspect the parts.

If anyone else wants to be completely anal about gluing the outer strut tabs so they are at the correct angle, I measured this to be approx. 4 degrees. I made a stick I could place along the wing with a 4 degree cut on the end allowing me to glue in the tabs such that when attaching the struts they don't try to bend. Not sure if this was necessary, but....

Regards the inner struts, I noticed the mounting plates are angled in at the top. Because I used e-flightline's plywood struts which don't want to bend as much as the ones from GWS, I sanded the foam where the mounting plates are glued so they ended up close to vertical.

For e-flightline struts, I found that #1 screws (hard to find) work if you go easy on the torque - the supplied ones are too small for the laser cut holes in the tabs and the inner strut mounting plates.
rperego is offline Find More Posts by rperego
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Apr 02, 2008, 08:42 PM
Suspended Account
Joined Jul 2006
22,991 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rperego
Chuck - I may be able to take a pic, but I think this will give you a mental picture:

First, the top fuse seam is straight all the way to where the front of the horz. stab. will be. Vewied from the back, the squared off end of the fuse is approx. 5/8 x 1 5/8". Blocking the wing just like you did only right side up, and then putting a square up to the end of the fuse, my twist is 1/16" over the 1 5/8 side. Given the rudder is 1/2" thick, I can block sand the lower portion of the last few inches of the fuse to make it look right and still have the end of the fuse at least as thick as the rudder.
That sounds like it'll work just fine!

Quote:
I think the twist might have been caused by the foam pins and corresponding holes in the opposite side. If these are off, they'll force the fuse to something other than straight - especially at the back. If I do this again, I'll be more careful when dry fitting the halves together to see if things are off.
The first thing I do when gluing GWS planes together is slice those foam bosses clean off and flush with the base. They are way more trouble than they're worth!

Quote:
Speaking of "off", I noticed this in time, but when cutting the ailerons and elevator apart, first look from the ends to see if the bevels match up top and bottom. Mine didn't so I had to compromise the cut. Given where this was the case, the leading and trailing edges also had ridges, I think GWS failed to line up the mold halves. If I build another GWS plane, I'll defintely pay the few extra bucks at a hobby shop so I can inspect the parts.
Don't bother... Every one I've put together so far has been the same way. It's part of the mystique of GWS planes. The good side is that you can just about throw all the individual parts into a bag, along with a tube of glue... and it'll still come out being able to fly very nicely...

Quote:
If anyone else wants to be completely anal about gluing the outer strut tabs so they are at the correct angle, I measured this to be approx. 4 degrees. I made a stick I could place along the wing with a 4 degree cut on the end allowing me to glue in the tabs such that when attaching the struts they don't try to bend. Not sure if this was necessary, but....
Anal? You call that anal??????? Watch one of my builds one of these days and you'll see the epitome of anal... LOL I'm always devoting the maximum time to the smallest details, and consequently have to keep telling myself that this is a stupid foam airplane, which will look like total crap after two or three of my less than stellar landings...

To give you an idea of just how bad it is.... I've been timing this Tiger Moth 400 build since I started it on the 15th of March (hmmmm, the Ides of March, no less).

Here's what I've gotten done.

Dual aileron servos installed and wing strut mounting brackets installed.
Reinforced landing gear installed.
Rudder, fin, elevators, stab installed.
Servos installed and hooked up to the tail group.
Main wing mounted.

Total time so far? 19 hours...

A typical balsa kit from Mountain Models takes me wayyyyyyy less time!!!!

Chuck
NoFlyZone is offline Find More Posts by NoFlyZone
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old Apr 03, 2008, 02:39 PM
Registered User
United States, WA, Bonney Lake
Joined Jun 2005
180 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rperego
Speaking of "off", I noticed this in time, but when cutting the ailerons and elevator apart, first look from the ends to see if the bevels match up top and bottom. Mine didn't so I had to compromise the cut. Given where this was the case, the leading and trailing edges also had ridges, I think GWS failed to line up the mold halves.
If you look back a few pages to Post 789, you might want to lightly sand the wing leading edges round to correct the airfoil discrepancy caused by that mismatch in the mold halves. It seems to create a tip stall condition.

Needing a healthy dose of sanding is one of the reasons I prefer the slope glider versions of the GWS kits.

My first r/c plane was a GWS pico stick which could barely get off the ground with the old version IPS & 7 cell NiCd, but flew great once I put in a Feigao. Next plane was the very tail heavy and underpowered PT-17, which flies ok now, properly balanced, and using a brushless & 3 cell 1250 LiPo. 3 brushless Pico Tm's all fly very nicely (flew for #1, still missing in the woods), TM-400 is still in the box, waiting for me to get back to the fun things. This thread has been a great source of info on the 400. I will reinforce the wings with carbon rods, reinforce the gear, use dual aileron servos, and keep her light. I think I will also lighten up the tail by doing some carving on the aft fuse before I glue it together.
Love the Tiger Moths!
burntstringflier is offline Find More Posts by burntstringflier
Reply With Quote
Old May 13, 2008, 12:13 AM
Registered User
Joined Jul 2007
230 Posts
Finished my TM400 with much thanks to all who posted tips here.

Turnigy DD motor, E-flite ESC, 3114 servos, and EVO 1300 LIPO. Cross bracing is 50lb. test Kevlar thread.

It was probably overkill, but one of the attachments shows a small plastic cover I made for the aileron linkage to avoid wires getting tangled.

Another pic shows a foam block used to secure the battery.

Thanks again for the help,

Bob
rperego is offline Find More Posts by rperego
Reply With Quote
Old May 22, 2008, 01:58 AM
Registered User
azdavidr's Avatar
Phoenix, AZ
Joined May 2008
83 Posts
CF rod & dual aileron servos

I've built and flown a SlowStick for some time now. I've read through the entire 57 pages of this thread. Thanks to all for the incredible wealth of information !

My questions are likely due to the fact that this is the 1st foam plane I'm building.

On the CF upper wing mod, what is the procedure for placing the rod then covering up to paint ? In other words, what's the best way to place the rod within the foam, then paint over it ?

Similarly on the dual servo setup for the ailerons. I've seen one set of pics that show the servos cut into the wings and placed almost flush. How are they adhered, and is that how they stay ? Are the aileron servos always visible from the bottom, or can they somehow be covered?

I'm getting my kit + components tomorrow and am excited to finally start the build!

thanks in advance...
azdavidr is offline Find More Posts by azdavidr
Reply With Quote
Old May 22, 2008, 02:29 AM
Suspended Account
Joined Jul 2006
22,991 Posts
Quote:
On the CF upper wing mod, what is the procedure for placing the rod then covering up to paint ? In other words, what's the best way to place the rod within the foam, then paint over it ?
It's my opinion only, that the upper wing carbon fiber rod is not necessary, and only adds weight. I do use a carbon fiber tube in the lower wing. I think that the 'sloppy' and 'flimsy' nature of the struts is exactly the ticket for having a well behaved, scale flying plane! If you are looking for power and speed and agility, then beef up the Tiger Moth 400. If, instead, you are looking for a fantastic scale flying plane, build it LIGHT!

Quote:
Similarly on the dual servo setup for the ailerons. I've seen one set of pics that show the servos cut into the wings and placed almost flush. How are they adhered, and is that how they stay ? Are the aileron servos always visible from the bottom, or can they somehow be covered?
Here's a tutorial on how to attach the ailerons, etc... to any GWS plane... it also includes a section on how to use dual aileron servos.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=630341
Quote:
I'm getting my kit + components tomorrow and am excited to finally start the build!
Here's the best 3 tips I can give you.

1) Build it light

2) Build it light

3) Build it light

Chuck
NoFlyZone is offline Find More Posts by NoFlyZone
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old May 22, 2008, 02:45 AM
Registered User
azdavidr's Avatar
Phoenix, AZ
Joined May 2008
83 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoFlyZone
It's my opinion only, that the upper wing carbon fiber rod is not necessary, and only adds weight. I do use a carbon fiber tube in the lower wing. I think that the 'sloppy' and 'flimsy' nature of the struts is exactly the ticket for having a well behaved, scale flying plane! If you are looking for power and speed and agility, then beef up the Tiger Moth 400. If, instead, you are looking for a fantastic scale flying plane, build it LIGHT!



Here's a tutorial on how to attach the ailerons, etc... to any GWS plane... it also includes a section on how to use dual aileron servos.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=630341


Here's the best 3 tips I can give you.

1) Build it light

2) Build it light

3) Build it light

Chuck

Thanks for the quick reply ... and what a great thread on the dual aileron servos.

You mention using a CF tube on the lower wing. Can you describe how you insert/attach that ? Do you paint over it ?

thanks Chuck!
azdavidr is offline Find More Posts by azdavidr
Reply With Quote
Old May 22, 2008, 02:56 AM
Suspended Account
Joined Jul 2006
22,991 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by azdavidr
Thanks for the quick reply ... and what a great thread on the dual aileron servos.

You mention using a CF tube on the lower wing. Can you describe how you insert/attach that ? Do you paint over it ?

thanks Chuck!
I'll be right back with a pic!....

Gimme a couple minutes....

Chuck
NoFlyZone is offline Find More Posts by NoFlyZone
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old May 22, 2008, 03:13 AM
Suspended Account
Joined Jul 2006
22,991 Posts
Okay, I'm back...

Here's a pic I just took of the bottom of my Tiger Moth 400.

You'll notice that in place of the supplied fiberglass rod, I have substituted a piece of .125" OD x .060" ID x 9 1/2" long carbon fiber tube.

The stock fiberglass rod weighs 3 grams
My carbon fiber tube weighs 2 grams, and is about 2-3 times stiffer than the stock fiberglass rod!

All I did was make sure the carbon fiber tube would lay in the slit without having to push it in, or force it in any way. Once it laid in the slit comfortably, I simply scuffed up the tube really well with rough 100 grit sandpaper, then cleaned the tube and the slot with rubbing alcohol, and used 5 minute epoxy to glue it in place.

This lower wing ain't going anyplace....

Chuck
NoFlyZone is offline Find More Posts by NoFlyZone
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old May 22, 2008, 03:21 AM
Registered User
azdavidr's Avatar
Phoenix, AZ
Joined May 2008
83 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoFlyZone
Okay, I'm back...

Here's a pic I just took of the bottom of my Tiger Moth 400.

You'll notice that in place of the supplied fiberglass rod, I have substituted a piece of .125" OD x .060" ID x 9 1/2" long carbon fiber tube.

The stock fiberglass rod weighs 3 grams
My carbon fiber tube weighs 2 grams, and is about 2-3 times stiffer than the stock fiberglass rod!

All I did was make sure the carbon fiber tube would lay in the slit without having to push it in, or force it in any way. Once it laid in the slit comfortably, I simply scuffed up the tube really well with rough 100 grit sandpaper, then cleaned the tube and the slot with rubbing alcohol, and used 5 minute epoxy to glue it in place.

This lower wing ain't going anyplace....

Chuck
Beautiful! A picture is worth a thousand words. Your shot even shows the dual aileron servo setup!

So I assume that this is how you fly, and didn't worry about painting over any of the servo, wiring or CF tube ?

thanks again Chuck, especially for such a quick response.

Dave (from Arizona)
azdavidr is offline Find More Posts by azdavidr
Reply With Quote
Old May 22, 2008, 03:31 AM
Suspended Account
Joined Jul 2006
22,991 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by azdavidr
Beautiful! A picture is worth a thousand words. Your shot even shows the dual aileron servo setup!

So I assume that this is how you fly, and didn't worry about painting over any of the servo, wiring or CF tube ?

thanks again Chuck, especially for such a quick response.

Dave (from Arizona)
Hi Dave,

Yep, this is exactly how my plane looks, flight ready. I'm not really artistically gifted, and while I certainly admire a well painted and gorgeous looking plane, I tend to make mine as pretty as my limited skills allow, AFTER I build them to the best of my ability. To me, a plane that's built straight as an arrow, and aerodynamically straight and true... doesn't need fancy paint jobs to show it off. Just being at the sticks of a plane that's well built more than makes up for the bragging rights for the sharpest paint job at the field...

Chuck
NoFlyZone is offline Find More Posts by NoFlyZone
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old May 22, 2008, 03:39 AM
Registered User
azdavidr's Avatar
Phoenix, AZ
Joined May 2008
83 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoFlyZone
Hi Dave,

Yep, this is exactly how my plane looks, flight ready. I'm not really artistically gifted, and while I certainly admire a well painted and gorgeous looking plane, I tend to make mine as pretty as my limited skills allow, AFTER I build them to the best of my ability. To me, a plane that's built straight as an arrow, and aerodynamically straight and true... doesn't need fancy paint jobs to show it off. Just being at the sticks of a plane that's well built more than makes up for the bragging rights for the sharpest paint job at the field...

Chuck
Can't say that I disagree. I fear building a pretty plane that I'll crash and have to rebuild right out of the gate. However, as a relative newcomer I like to know what others are doing so that I'm not doing things that appear unreasonable. Thanks a ton for the effort of the posts and pics!

We're blessed here in Arizona with fairly good flying weather year round. Do you fly in MI in the winter ? If not, it you must get a bit anxious!

thanks again,
Dave
azdavidr is offline Find More Posts by azdavidr
Reply With Quote
Old May 22, 2008, 03:43 AM
Suspended Account
Joined Jul 2006
22,991 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by azdavidr
Can't say that I disagree. I fear building a pretty plane that I'll crash and have to rebuild right out of the gate. However, as a relative newcomer I like to know what others are doing so that I'm not doing things that appear unreasonable. Thanks a ton for the effort of the posts and pics!

We're blessed here in Arizona with fairly good flying weather year round. Do you fly in MI in the winter ? If not, it you must get a bit anxious!

thanks again,
Dave
Hi Dave,

Sometimes, we can fly in Michigan in the winter. But as far as getting anxious... nahhhh, not really.

In fact, when I look outside and it's too windy, or cold, or rainy, or snowy to fly... I smile a great big smile and run down into my warm and cozy workshop where, for the most part, I just sort of 'hang out', and work on a few of the many planes I have in various stages of construction...

Chuck
NoFlyZone is offline Find More Posts by NoFlyZone
Reply With Quote  (Disabled)
Old May 25, 2008, 03:28 AM
Registered User
azdavidr's Avatar
Phoenix, AZ
Joined May 2008
83 Posts
screws for landing gear plastic mounting point

I've started a new build of the TGM 400. I can't wait to get through it, but am trying to be patient during the build.

Anyhow, I can't seem to find the appropriate screws for the plastic piece that is supposed to secure the LG wire to the plastic mounting point. I seem to only have cowl screws and the machine screw for the fuse.

Does anyone have a recommendation for what to use for the 2 screws there ? Do they only keep the wire from popping out via the screw head holding the wire in place ?

FYI, I'm aware of the weakness in the LG and, being somewhat new to the hobby, am planning on reinforcing with a piano wire to the firewall, as posted earlier.

thanks!
Dave
azdavidr is offline Find More Posts by azdavidr
Reply With Quote
Old May 25, 2008, 01:06 PM
Registered User
Joined Jul 2007
230 Posts
I noticed the same thing, but for the LG I used what I think you are calling the cowl screws. For the cowl I used the smaller screws meant for the struts. Not sure you'll have enough to do this - I used the E-fliteline wood struts which need bigger screws. But, if you attached the cowl already with the bigger screws you'll have to plug the holes for the smaller ones to work.

A number zero screw will probably be about the right size - but good luck finding them. My local Ace hardware is ordering an assortment of number 0's and 1's for me as they are hard to find - especially ferrous ones so your magnetized screw driver will work (small parts, old hands)
rperego is offline Find More Posts by rperego
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help! Can anyone point me to a good GWS Tiger Moth 400 Build with pictures? Sparkorama Electric Plane Talk 8 Feb 05, 2006 04:12 PM
Help! Can anyone point me to a good GWS Tiger Moth 400 Build with pictures? Sparkorama Parkflyers 0 Jan 23, 2006 06:39 PM
Tiger Moth 400 build "scale details added" Cruzer Parkflyers 9 Feb 20, 2005 01:50 PM
Tiger Moth 400 Build fuzzyhead Parkflyers 0 Oct 24, 2004 08:34 AM
Tiger Moth 400 Build and Maiden Flight review AirWarriorBelgy Parkflyers 180 Aug 16, 2004 03:23 PM