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Old Dec 04, 2007, 10:48 PM
If it floats....sail it!
FoamCrusher's Avatar
Elk Grove, CA
Joined Sep 2002
4,128 Posts
Rotozuk:

What has been said above is all good advise. I fly off of mowed weeds and find that larger wheels are the only way to go, but YMMV.

One comment about your proposed paint scheme....wings that are the same color top and bottom won't help you keep the plane oriented in the sky. Even a biplane can be difficult to oriented correctly when doing maneuvers in the air. Try a solid darker color (like red) on the bottom of the wings and the yellow on the top. It won't spoil the look you want and at a distance the yellow fades to white and the red fades to black so it is easily seen. A stripe down the sides helps keep the plane level when seen from the side.

I would rather have a plane that is a little less historically accurate than one in pieces on the ground.

See http://www.ultimatecharger.com/color.html for the "whys" of this.

FC
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Old Dec 05, 2007, 06:40 AM
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Gustavus, OH
Joined Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoamCrusher
Rotozuk:

What has been said above is all good advise. I fly off of mowed weeds and find that larger wheels are the only way to go, but YMMV.


See http://www.ultimatecharger.com/color.html for the "whys" of this.

FC
What size wheels are you using? I also fly off short grass/weeds from the backyard.
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Old Dec 06, 2007, 12:22 AM
If it floats....sail it!
FoamCrusher's Avatar
Elk Grove, CA
Joined Sep 2002
4,128 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffh
What size wheels are you using? I also fly off short grass/weeds from the backyard.
3" diameter by 7/8" wide ribbed gray foam. Got them at the LHS. For 60 size gassers I think They look like "tundra tires" on it.

FC
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Old Dec 06, 2007, 01:00 AM
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I have 2x 2" wheels for the Mains. Big enough?
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Old Dec 06, 2007, 07:04 AM
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long island N.Y.
Joined Jan 2004
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Dubro has a nice line of wheels with foam and being light .My tigermoth almost stauls to a point where you can just plop it down vertical if slow enough.I can almost walk along side of it while flying. I place the 5in1 cam on it all the time ! A few pics for ya !
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Old Dec 06, 2007, 12:24 PM
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Rotozuk's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Sep 2003
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My TM400

Thought I'd show a few pictures of my baby and the few tricks I used.

I usually do some stripes and such in my paint jobs, but this one was the standard yellow kit, and I have to say that I like it as is. I added a bit of black to the cockpits and painted the fuel tank silver just to add a little something to the plane. Besides, I think we are about to have 3 or 4 more of these planes at my field all in the same yellow.

I'm very pleased with this plane. I have been flying for a long time, and this plane goes up there on my highly recommended list. I have been very pleased with most of the GWS planes actually.

I still think my favorite is the E-starter on floats with 175 watts, CF sparred wing, dual aileron servos and floats. But I think this plane is a very close second! (The E-starter does better in the wind and is much faster, yet still slow thanks to the undercambered wing.) A biplane always looks great in the air!

The plane just puts a smile on your face, and I keep catching myself looking at the plane when stored in my house. Something about the curves on the tail...

-Wayne
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Old Dec 06, 2007, 01:00 PM
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Kingston, Canada
Joined Jun 2004
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Looks great Wayne. Yes, It has a character all its own. Sorta like a slow Spitfire. I test flew a 1/3 scale one for a guy in the club. Fully dressed pilots in both seats, fully instrumented in both cickpits. A real piece of art. I wasn't afraid to fly it because I know how the guy builds. Was a privelage to fly it.

Gord
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Old Dec 08, 2007, 07:18 PM
If it floats....sail it!
FoamCrusher's Avatar
Elk Grove, CA
Joined Sep 2002
4,128 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPE_53
I have 2x 2" wheels for the Mains. Big enough?
Is that two, 2" wide by 2" diameter, or two, 2" diameter by ? wide???....not that the width really matters.

What counts on cut grass or other bumpy field is the rolling diameter - the larger the better so the incidence angle to an obstruction is lower and the wheel is less prone to hanging up and causing the plane to nose over. Width is not so much an issue since almost any width wheel will support the weight of the plane, unless you are trying to land on snow.

Try what you have and see if they work, keeping in mind that with a 2" diameter wheel, the prop is 1/2" lower to the ground than with a 3" wheel. If you are using a large diameter prop and you go too small with your wheels you can get ground strikes of the prop tip when landing under power or when taking off.

Actually, although they look like on the plane, those large skinny GWS plastic spoke wheels off a Slow Stick are ideal for a bumpy field, and they cut down on drag too. Just like women who wear high heels shoes and complain they make their feet hurt, we put nice looking wheels on our planes and worry about the increased drag.

FC
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Old Dec 10, 2007, 01:21 PM
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I think he is saying he has two 2" wheels on his plane...

Well, I got to fly my reworked Tiger Moth on Saturday and what a hoot it was! The stall is gone, and she could not be much more fun to fly. She will hover, knife edge (even though I suck at knife edge) and rolls quick even though it only has 2 ailerons. I left the CG where I had it last weekend, just BEHIND the cabine struts. Even though I brought several planes to the field I only flew the TM400. With 1300 and 1800 packs, both worked fine. The plane did not mind the added weight of the heavier packs.

I'll see about posting up some video we shot this weekend. Nothing special, just wanted to show what this plane can do with a cheap brushless.

-Wayne

p.s. I forget to say what modification I made that seems to have removed the tip stalls. I lightly sanded the leading edges and tips of the wings. Yep, that was all it needed.
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Old Feb 11, 2008, 06:39 AM
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United States, CA, Rocklin
Joined Jan 2006
1,102 Posts
Gws Tm-400

Presented this to my flying buddy on Xmas, and finally got a decent airborne shot this weekend.
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Old Feb 11, 2008, 08:48 AM
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A Barrier Island in New Jersey, USA
Joined Oct 2003
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gofish,

That's a beautiful iteration of the TM you built! You have a VERY lucky friend...

Aeronca
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Old Feb 11, 2008, 11:42 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,524 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotozuk
...Well, I got to fly my reworked Tiger Moth on Saturday and what a hoot it was! The stall is gone, and she could not be much more fun to fly. She will hover, knife edge (even though I suck at knife edge) and rolls quick even though it only has 2 ailerons. I left the CG where I had it last weekend, just BEHIND the cabine struts. Even though I brought several planes to the field I only flew the TM400. With 1300 and 1800 packs, both worked fine. The plane did not mind the added weight of the heavier packs.

I'll see about posting up some video we shot this weekend. Nothing special, just wanted to show what this plane can do with a cheap brushless.

-Wayne

p.s. I forget to say what modification I made that seems to have removed the tip stalls. I lightly sanded the leading edges and tips of the wings. Yep, that was all it needed.
Hi Wayne, I wonder if that lowered thrust line might have something to do with the low speed issue you had? My TM will slow down to the point where it won't stay in the air, and doesn't have any stalling tendencies. I had the GWS PT-17 once with the thrust line lowered as yours is, and it made a very noticable difference in the way it flew. You solved your problem, but if you want to move the thrust line up to the stock location with no added mods, get this motor mount... It keeps the thrust line where the geared motor originally intended for the GWS TM would have placed it.

FWIW, I extended the ailerons inward on the lower wing on mine to get a bit better roll rate. Here's some pics and a link to the maiden flight video.

<edit> Warning! The video is a long one (16 min.)... but does include some simple basic aerobatic manuevers showing my TM flight characteristics.
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Old Feb 11, 2008, 12:53 PM
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Rotozuk's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank
Hi Wayne, I wonder if that lowered thrust line might have something to do with the low speed issue you had? My TM will slow down to the point where it won't stay in the air, and doesn't have any stalling tendencies. I had the GWS PT-17 once with the thrust line lowered as yours is, and it made a very noticable difference in the way it flew. You solved your problem, but if you want to move the thrust line up to the stock location with no added mods, get this motor mount... It keeps the thrust line where the geared motor originally intended for the GWS TM would have placed it.

I think it was just an issue of the deformed leading edges on my wings. After a little light sanding to round them off she has been great. Here is some video of her farting around with an SE5:
Tigermoth and SE5 (7 min 20 sec)


My Tigermoth has been my favorite plane since I fixed the tip stall issue. I have here balanced just behind the rear upper strut, and beefed up the landing gear a bit. I have many an hour flying her around the sky.

She has had 2 mishaps that resulted in airframe damage. First one was the the 1800 battery pack getting scared and trying to jump out of the plane while hovering. The battery slipped out and hung by the wires. This made for a very tail heavy plane! The landing was a hard pancake that bent the landing gear and popped the bottom wing out. Only 2 small cracks in the fuse. The following weekend she had a major mid air with a much faster plane. This was a head on mid air and both planes were re-kitted in the sky. (I had mid aired this same exact plane once before with my GWS FW190. Argghh! Both crashes were by mistake, heck we usually fly combat with other planes... but not our "good" planes.) Anyhow the Tigermoth busted the top of the nose off (with motor), busted the upper wing, and tore out the wing struts from the fuse. The other plane was not rebuild able. My Tigermoth is back in the air and still flies pretty well.

Build this plane light and simple and you will have a great little flier. But they are kind of fragile... on the ground.

Will be starting work on a PT-17 soon.

-Wayne
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Old Feb 11, 2008, 01:37 PM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotozuk
...
She has had 2 mishaps that resulted in airframe damage.... back in the air and still flies pretty well.

...Will be starting work on a PT-17 soon.

-Wayne
I'm on my second TM400... no midairs, but I had several rebuilds, including one due to complete ejection of the pack one due to a tree encounter. It still flew beautifully after repairs, but I eventually lost it in a flyaway (with my video camera on board!).

If you have not built the GWS PT-17 before, you will find it not up to the TM400 in "likeability", for lack of better term. The LG is more solid, but the PT is bulky and grossly tail heavy... very difficult to balance without some major mods of the battery bay to get the pack up against the motor (or adding dead weight which I refuse to do). Plan accordingly!
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Old Feb 11, 2008, 01:49 PM
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United States, CA, Novato
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank
I'm on my second TM400... no midairs, but I had several rebuilds, including one due to complete ejection of the pack one due to a tree encounter. It still flew beautifully after repairs, but I eventually lost it in a flyaway (with my video camera on board!).

If you have not built the GWS PT-17 before, you will find it not up to the TM400 in "likeability", for lack of better term. The LG is more solid, but the PT is bulky and grossly tail heavy... very difficult to balance without some major mods of the battery bay to get the pack up against the motor (or adding dead weight which I refuse to do). Plan accordingly!

Yep, she will be getting the "Super" treatment with cowl, etc. Probably 4 ailerons too. Will be used on land and water.

-Wayne
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