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Old Dec 03, 2007, 07:15 PM
Rotozuk's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flypaper 2
First flew mine on a 1320 batt. and wanted to install a 2100 so I cut it out bigger with a hacksaw blade through the cockpit area. If you do get it too slow it will dump a wing, but that's only because it's to slow. It's a fine point with this plane as it gives you no warning. I just land a little faster than expected. Fun plane. Fly it slow and lazy, or crank the sh## out of it, it likes it both ways. Mine would only flatspin inverted.

Gord.
Haven't tried any flat spins yet... Makes a great stall turn though.. Fly vertical and kick that rudder and around she comes..

Yes, my "stalling" is only happening now at very low speeds. But earlier with a more aft CG it was stalling even at cruising speeds while attempting a slow banked turn. The wind had some turbulence that could have been upsetting it a bit too.

This plane looks so good about 2 feet off the ground at very slow speeds... Thus my issue. It is also fun to toss around the sky in very non-scale aerobatics. Fellow fliers seemed to get a kick out of it. (No one at my field had ever seen one fly.) 3 friends asked me to order them up a kit from the sale, but it looks like the sale is over. Heck I was tempted to buy another as a spare. (And I have 3 PT-17s, 3 C-47, 3 Islanders and a C-130 to build.) That sale gave me bad thoughts and a storage issue!

-Wayne
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Old Dec 03, 2007, 08:01 PM
Canadian Bacon
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Kingston, Canada
Joined Jun 2004
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Around 1955 I was an apprentice aircraft mechanic at the local airport and Queens University had a full size gliding club. The pilot of the Tiger Moth tow plane was pisseyeyed drunk half the time so after he towed the glider up to altitude he would do aerobatics all the way to the ground and climb out grinning from ear to ear. He could fly drunk better than I could sober. So the Tiger Moth is no slouch at mild aerobatics.
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 12:19 AM
If it floats....sail it!
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Elk Grove, CA
Joined Sep 2002
4,190 Posts
Roto:

Add a little nose weight and see if that makes a difference.

You can also warp the the TE of the wing tips up a bit to add washout. Heat the wing TE foam with a heat gun on low or a blow dryer on medium. Twist the wings as you carefully and slowly heat them and then hold them in position as the foam cools. About 1/8" is plenty. All too much will do is slow the plane down with more drag in level flight....not that you will notice since the plane is so slow anyway.

Also, if you have individual aileron servos rather than the stock GWS torque rods, try adding positive differential (more up aileron than down). I found I could keep pulling off nose weight by applying more differential, adjusting the amount with the computerTx until the plane started to show opposite yaw when the ailerons were applied. It ended up at about 65% differential when the plane just barely pulls out of a power off dive.

"A plane that is set so the CG is too far forward flys poorly. A plane with an aft CG flys once."

FC
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 05:09 AM
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Im getting my moth on thursday. Using a 900Kv outrunner on a 10x4.7 SF prop should give me a bit less than a kilo of thrust on a 3 cell lipo.

going with these markings: http://www.aviationmuseum.com.au/aircraft/TigerMoth.cfm

Cant wait to start it. Any tips from the experts.

It will be nice to have something slower than my jets for the park.
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 12:28 PM
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United States, CA, Novato
Joined Sep 2003
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Yep, I have dual aileron servos and did try to add differential at the field, but I was getting reverse differential, so I will have to adjust the wires at the receiver I think. I'm new to the DX6, and sometimes revert to my Futaba methods.

I pulled the motor off and was able to grind down the glue joint and a bit of foam allowing my battery a much better fit all the way forward. No more need for lead!

I also started work on the landing gear mod. Should have everything sorted out tonight.



SNIPE_53 - I think this plane only needs a couple of simple mods.

1) Hog out the battery compartment before you glue the fuse sides together,. Make sure you can slide the battery all the way forward to get a good CG.

2) Landing gear - Add a wire from the gear leg up to the fire wall. Slit the cowl to clear this new wire. If you have a really nice paved runway, then you can get away with the stock setup if you land really nicely every time. It is by far the weakest gear I have seen on a GWS kit. Don't even think about landing in grass with out the mod.

Optional 3) I read about putting a little spar behind the struts in the top wing as some people were breaking their wing where the struts go in. It was easy to do, so I slipped in a little scrap carbon there. It carries about 1" beyond the struts on each side. I don't now it is needed, but it was easy. Also serves as a good aft CG marker.

I have found a good bit of throw on all surfaces makes the plane more fun to fly.

-Wayne
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 12:46 PM
Canadian Bacon
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Kingston, Canada
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You've probably got it fixed allready Wayne, but the differential on the Spektrum/ JR is reverse from Futaba. Go to + instead of -.Your right about the brace on the top wing. Mine broke on a flip over and had to put in the same brace. Later on you might want to ail. the top wing. I just cut the trailing edge the same width as the bottom ail., beveled the bottom to get down ail. Hot glue hinges and wire pushrods from bottom wing to top with 1/32 ply horns bedded into the trailing edge, Wire pushrods have Z bends in one end and right angle bend in the other with Dubro Quicklinks on the other. I'll see if I can find a pic. Makes it a lot more agile.

Gord.
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 12:50 PM
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Gustavus, OH
Joined Oct 2007
490 Posts
I've read a lot of this thread but I've still got a couple questions and would appreciate any help from those pilots experienced flying the TM400.

For the first flight of a first time biplane pilot, where should I put the CG for a safe flight?

I installed two carbon fiber rods in the upper wing, notching the upper cabanes for clearance. Should I still epoxy the cabanes to the upper wing?

What elevator/aileron throws would you recommend for the maiden flight? I have 12mm up/down from center on both right now.

I plan to fly off short grass. I think I'll increase wheels to 3". Sound good?
I still need to add a wire from the landing gear to the firewall.

One word of advice for anyone building this plane. Make SURE you securely epoxy, after sanding to rough things up, the lower wing securing nut to it's plastic holder. You would not believe how difficult it is to resecure the darn thing if it comes loose
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 01:07 PM
Zzzt! Buzz! Click!
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Joined Jan 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffh
For the first flight of a first time biplane pilot, where should I put the CG for a safe flight?
Cliff, see the picture in post 247. It should balance with your fingers right ahead of the rear cabane strut.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffh
I installed two carbon fiber rods in the upper wing, notching the upper cabanes for clearance. Should I still epoxy the cabanes to the upper wing?
I would. I don't think you want too much movement up there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffh
What elevator/aileron throws would you recommend for the maiden flight? I have 12mm up/down from center on both right now.
I've never done anything different than the factory throws (or whatever we decided on in the first 100 posts of this thread ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffh
I plan to fly off short grass. I think I'll increase wheels to 3". Sound good?
I think 3" is overkill. I use 2 1/4" wheels, and I can fly off short/dry grass. Anything taller and she's likely to either grab the grass with the prop, or just dig in the nose when she rotates. You can hand-launch this baby just fine.

Good luck!
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 01:25 PM
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Gustavus, OH
Joined Oct 2007
490 Posts
Okay thanks. The cg that folks recommend on different threads vary all over. Just in front of the rear cabane strut looks awful far back, but then i've never flown the plane.

I'll epoxy the upper cabane attachment points.

The manual lists a "range" for the throws. I was just wondering about nice safe throws for a maiden flight for a first time biplane pilot. I'm thinking about the middle of the range given.

With this lousy weather, I'll have lots of time to think about things before I get to fly again.

I'm really looking forward to the maiden flight!
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 01:46 PM
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USA, NH, Alstead
Joined Oct 2007
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I just built an flew a Pico Moth a couple of weeks ago. It is my second RC plane after a slow stick. It is a lovely little plane and flies great. How does the 400 TM compare in terms of slow speed and ability to fly in a small location? Also, how much does it usually wind up weighing? Thanks, Joe
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by u2builder
I just built an flew a Pico Moth a couple of weeks ago. It is my second RC plane after a slow stick. It is a lovely little plane and flies great. How does the 400 TM compare in terms of slow speed and ability to fly in a small location? Also, how much does it usually wind up weighing? Thanks, Joe
Hi Joe,

While the TM 400 will fly in about the same area as your Slow Stick, and if built light, will fly at about the same speed, it is a 4 channel aileron plane which in my opinion only... does not make for a good aileron trainer. For that, my recommendation is the GWS E-Starter, as it has the best of both worlds in having the ability to fly as a 3 or 4 channel plane.

Just my opinion...

Chuck
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 01:59 PM
Rotozuk's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cliffh
The manual lists a "range" for the throws. I was just wondering about nice safe throws for a maiden flight for a first time biplane pilot. I'm thinking about the middle of the range given.
With my limited time flying the plane, maybe 1 hour in total, I think the plane flies well with just about any throws you want. A little or a lot seems to fly it pretty much the same.

That CG point suggested should be right on the money. Keep in mind that the top wing is staggered forward so it gives the appearance of a rear CG location.

-Wayne
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 04:14 PM
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long island N.Y.
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I can't get my Tigermoth to slow down !
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 04:23 PM
Rotozuk's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cr@sh
I can't get my Tigermoth to slow down !
LOL

This is a pretty slow plane, even with full throttle.

Then again mine is pretty light, and it just got lighter. Probably fly it with some 1000 mah batteries for even more weight savings.


Anyhow, I'll take the bait.. What do you mean it wont slow down? How fast is it?, how much does it weigh? Where is your balance?

-Wayne
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Old Dec 04, 2007, 04:55 PM
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long island N.Y.
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Just kidding around !,Mine has this setup,Eflight 380 outrunner,CC10 esc,3s 900 or 1320.took flat carbon stock on top wing with wire and carbon struts to reinforce cause it does flex on inverted loops.I've built a long time ago and still fly's "GREAT".
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