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Old Jul 15, 2012, 11:11 PM
"Free crash instruction"
Cr@sh's Avatar
long island N.Y.
Joined Jan 2004
1,698 Posts
My second one was a slope kit and gutted the first one for all the parts ,I'm lazy sometimes.......$31 bucks from BP hobby was not bad and arrived in 3 days. He he, I sold my micro Beast wanting and hoping "your" getting the AS3X with yours? It's not an indoor plane....unless your into pylon racing with the school having good insurance
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Old Jul 15, 2012, 11:51 PM
Must not buy more planes!
mclarkson's Avatar
USA, KS, Wichita
Joined Jul 2010
2,347 Posts
It definitely sounds like the behavior of a tail-heavy bipe: straight up / stall / straight down. Triple check you CG - it should be right on or slightly in front of the rearmost cabane strut as it enters the top wing.
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Old Jul 16, 2012, 04:15 PM
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kerwin50's Avatar
winston mo
Joined Oct 2006
7,539 Posts
You may have also had your elevator trimed up. What is your set up, such as what motor are you using.
I have a feeling this caught you off guard and panic may have killed your plane. Also it seems you didn't have enough throw in your surfaces. At 50 ft applying elevator should of brought you out of any situation tail heavy or what ever.
I know alot of guys are running this plane on 100 watts or so but I like power because power can get you out of trouble as fast as you get in it. A 200 watt motor is Ideal.
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 06:43 AM
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Crowfly's Avatar
Joined Oct 2004
1,149 Posts
Have radio problems become a thing of the past? No one has brought that up so far. I would range check while having someone "wiggle" things around to see if it does something wierd.
Fred
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 08:52 PM
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United States, WA, Bonney Lake
Joined Jun 2005
180 Posts
Phoam,
At least you took some pictures before the first maiden flight. What a beauty! Simple enough but a very elegant paint scheme. Best wishes on take two. My TM400 still sits in the box, waiting to be released...
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 12:07 PM
In thrust we trust
phoam's Avatar
Aguanga, Ca
Joined Mar 2010
1,260 Posts
Tom Frank - the Moth is 100% RTF now and I checked the balance with the 1300mAh fully inserted and all the way back (approx 2" aft), and the difference in the CG shift was less than 1/4". So I'm not so confident that a battery that slid back can be to blame, unfortunately.

Cr@sh - Gone are the days of the $31 Moth! Or are you maybe thinking the Pico?

Yeah, new Beast with the AS3X. And 7 fresh packs to wring it out. Get jealous.

kerwin50 - I had set up the controls throws maxed out on the servo arms and control horns in case I wanted all that deflection down the road; it's got generous tail surface travel. So much so that I tamed it down to 70% for the maiden.

The motor is a PowerUp 400 SloFly. It's no powerhouse but definitely adequate for a TM400.

Crowfly - The radio signal is solid. I'm using a DX7 and an AR500. I have signal from 70 paces out at multiple angles while range checking.

burntstringflier - Thanks for your compliment. Yeah something told me I should take pics before the maiden! Glad I heeded. And if it's any consolation, I have 8 or 9 GWS kits around here that need assembly.

I got the Moth all put back together last night, and aside from the wrinkled cowl it actually doesn't look too bad. I'm hoping for a different experience the next go around. Might not happen til Sunday, though.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 12:24 PM
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winston mo
Joined Oct 2006
7,539 Posts
Good luck, I'm sure once you get the bugs worked out you'll have a wonderful plane
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 06:29 PM
Registered User
Taiwan, 北市
Joined Dec 2010
1,215 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by phoam View Post
. So I'm not so confident that a battery that slid back can be to blame, unfortunately. ......
If so, it's better to check the angle of attack on the upper wing or even both wings again.

Chen
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 02:38 PM
In thrust we trust
phoam's Avatar
Aguanga, Ca
Joined Mar 2010
1,260 Posts
Chen, what should I look for? Having never seen another Tiger Moth to compare it to, I'm not sure I would even recognize an error if there is one. The two wings' angle of attack seem fairly parallel to one another. Not sure it's adjustable, however.

I just recently noticed that GWS calls for rather conservative control throws for the TM (5mm-15mm). Now I toned down the low rates to 50% on the ailerons and elevator to get surface throws reduced to 15mm.
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 07:43 PM
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Taiwan, 北市
Joined Dec 2010
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Phoam,

If the two wings' angle of attack are parallel to each other, how about extending the line of lower wing bottom to horizontal stab by applying a long ruler to see if they are parallel as well ? As you said that the CG was located correctly and it was climbing up vertically right after take off. It acted like the GWS Zero that came without lowering down the LE of its wing, but TM400 should not be the same as the Zero.

Yes, applying such low rate can be helpful. I'd use 10mm as the low rate if I had the same problem.
Just my two cents.

Chen
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 10:40 PM
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richard9999's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jan 2007
1,688 Posts
Phoam,

I learnt to fly on the TM400, but had to leave it behind when I returned to Oz from te UK (It is still there apparently). I now have a Hobbyking TM EPO as it was impossible to buy a TM400 here, and to be honest the TM EPO is much more scale, but not such a good slow flyer (too high a wing loading thanks to the scale details). They are of similar size however. I follow this thread because of my great affection for the TM400 .

I first flew my TM EPO with the recommended 1300 mAh pack and it was a little unstable. With a 1500 mAh pack it is much better. I read somewhere that you should never fly a bipe even slightly tail heavy, and it is always better to err on the nose heavy side. The behaviour of your plane very much suggests too tail heavy. So, If you have a 1500 mAh pack, try that, otherwise add a bit of nose weight for the re-maiden. Best of luck. They are great planes when trimmed out well.
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 02:32 AM
In thrust we trust
phoam's Avatar
Aguanga, Ca
Joined Mar 2010
1,260 Posts
Chen,

Yeah the bottom wing is nicely square to the fuse even after surgery and reconstruction.

Whenever I get around to build my Zeros I plan on just raising the h-stab instead of lowering the main wing as it will have the same angle of attack effect but is less intrusive to the model, if I remember correctly.

So do you fly GWS parkflyers these days? As a former GWS colleague, I am curious to know your favorites amongst all the kits.

Yesterday, Tower Hobbies suckered me into buying a few more GWS kits! So I suppose I have P-40 coming my way, and another Formosa I and another Corsair. I haven't even build the latter two yet that I have now. I seem to have amassed quite a GWS fleet lately and I look forward to building each of them.
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 02:43 AM
In thrust we trust
phoam's Avatar
Aguanga, Ca
Joined Mar 2010
1,260 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by richard9999 View Post
Phoam,

I learnt to fly on the TM400, but had to leave it behind when I returned to Oz from te UK (It is still there apparently). I now have a Hobbyking TM EPO as it was impossible to buy a TM400 here, and to be honest the TM EPO is much more scale, but not such a good slow flyer (too high a wing loading thanks to the scale details). They are of similar size however. I follow this thread because of my great affection for the TM400 .

I first flew my TM EPO with the recommended 1300 mAh pack and it was a little unstable. With a 1500 mAh pack it is much better. I read somewhere that you should never fly a bipe even slightly tail heavy, and it is always better to err on the nose heavy side. The behaviour of your plane very much suggests too tail heavy. So, If you have a 1500 mAh pack, try that, otherwise add a bit of nose weight for the re-maiden. Best of luck. They are great planes when trimmed out well.
Hey Richard,

I actually read through this whole thread earlier this year, compiling knowledge of this craft, and I remember it was one of your posts that inspired me to cut ailerons into the top wing.

I hear you on the nose weight! Even though the plane appears to ballance now, I agree that it may be safer to re-maiden with additional nose weight. Will tape a coin or two to the front of the inner cowl before the next attempt since I don't have any 1500s.

That's too bad about the availability of the 400 in the Oz, but the HK Moth looks to be a fine model as well. Curious what your AUW is.
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 11:24 AM
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richard9999's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jan 2007
1,688 Posts
The TM EPO weighs 540gm/19oz airframe only and 670gm/23.5oz with 1500 mAh battery, so its on the heavy side (this is in new condition with no repairs so far).

I was an early adopter of this kit as I love the TM dearly and just couldn't buy a GWS one here, or even easily from SE Asia - NOTE TO GWS. My first one had all sorts of problems - lower wing was banana shaped and also had different angles of attack from the left and right hand sides. Not surprisingly it had all sorts of random crashes. After 9 months sending pictures of the problems to HK Customer Support and arguing with them I finally got help from Scott (PhoenixRacing) of HK and they sent me a new one free of charge a few weeks ago, which is now perfectly straight and flies very well. So I could now recommend this aircraft for other TM lovers. See my upload in the HK Files section for this aircraft or the RCGroups thread if you are interested and wanted to build it so you could actually take it apart.

I will add the dual aileron mod to it after flying it stock a bit more. I use bigger wheels than stock.

After vowing I would never be an early adopter of an HK aircraft again, I have now been seduced (suckered?) by the new HK DH-88 Comet and it looks from its thread that I will be the first person to order the kit rather than the ARTF version with (heavy, 200gm) retracts. This plane suffers even more from a high wing loading (1100gm/38oz! with retracts and 2000 mAh LiPo for a 1120mm wing span), but is just so beautiful . It seems that only one person has so far landed this plane successfully gear down without cartwheeling it. By buying the kit, without heavy retracts, I am hoping to make it lighter and more flyable, either by fitting a fixed u/c raked forward with larger wheels or by fitting very light retracts for down gear take off and belly landing. It is about to be shipped so I will decide when it arrives.

More than a bit off topic, but all are DeHavillands of the 1930's!
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Old Jul 20, 2012, 11:48 AM
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richard9999's Avatar
Sydney, Australia
Joined Jan 2007
1,688 Posts
Just one more thought, the HK TM EPO comes with a scale spinner but I am waiting for a new, straight, prop adapter to arrive before I can fit it using a screw rather than the glue suggested (which failed on every nose over). In the meantime I am actually using a prop saver as it's the only straight fitting I have for the 10x5 prop I use.
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