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Old Nov 07, 2004, 07:41 AM
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lookoutbelow's Avatar
New Whiteland In.
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Question
What's the best outrunner combo for GWS War Birds?

Hi everyone, Iím in the dark ages when it comes to brushless so help a dummy out. Iíd like to put an outrunner on my GWS Corsair but Iím not so sure it would work. I did see a guy at a fly- in this summer and he had a Me109 with an MJ outrunner in it and was running it on NiCadís! I didnít find out all the other details but he had another Me with an outrunner on 2s1p li-poly. I like the thought of no gear box. Has anyone out there done a system with an outrunner on a Corsair? What kind and size and prop would work? Thanks to everyone who makes this forum the best place to learn and to share our great hobby.

Roger
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Old Nov 07, 2004, 08:09 AM
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Arnold , Maryland, United States
Joined Nov 2002
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I flew my GWS P-51 on both the stock 300 motor, and an Astro, geared 010 BL, & 10x8 prop.
The performance with 8x1100 nimh was similar. ( both were scale like)

When I built my Switchback, I flew it with the same geared 010 BL, and the AXI 2212/34 BL, on 2S lipos. The AXI gave much better performance, using only 6-7 amps. Based on that motor swap, I'm guessing that the AXI, with a 10x7 slofly prop & 2 series lipos, should fly your Corsair very nicely.

If you went to 3 cells at 11-12 amps, I think you would have all the performance that a Corsair could use. Or any other, under 20 oz. warbird.
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Old Nov 07, 2004, 10:57 AM
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USA, MA, Framingham
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Check out the new Himaxx 2812-0850 that has been talked about in the power system forum. looks like it was made for that corsair.
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Old Nov 07, 2004, 11:11 AM
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the Swamp Fox's Avatar
Wadmalaw Island ,SC
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Hi Roger,

Been running outrunners in Alfa birds,(including a Corsair) for a while now. Axi 2212/20 on 3s1500 .

The "best" motor/batt combo for you will depend on your desired flight performance and budget.

Love the outrunners myself

Good luck !
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Old Nov 07, 2004, 11:41 AM
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perttime's Avatar
Tampere, Finland
Joined Nov 2004
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I'd say that tough part is deciding how you want to mount your chosen outrunner in a GWS plane. I put a Typhoon 15 in my Formosa. I put the GWS "stick" in the lower mounting hole (not sure what you have in the warbirds). My actual mount is a piece of plywood glued onto the square part scavenged from a damaged GWS gearbox. An AXI might offer a more elegant solution.

PM
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Old Nov 07, 2004, 11:49 AM
PGR
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I used to fly a GWS Formosa with an AXI 2212/34 in it powered by a TP1320-3S pack and I was completely satisfied with the performance. It's important to note that I was striving for "scale aerobatics" performance, though, and not trying to build a ballistic rocket ship. That rocket ship performance can be accomplished with the 2212/26 or 2212/20 but will typically require a battery pack with more capacity.

The problem with the GWS foamys is they're designed for stick-mount gearboxes with offset motors so mounting an outrunner can be problematic if you want to maintain anything close to the original thrust line (or if you want the prop shaft centered in the hole in the cowl). I found an elegant way to accomplish that using readily-available and inexpensive parts and posted the instructions HERE in this forum.

As much as I like my AXIs, I have finally admitted to myself that the Himax/Cobri style offset gearboxes really are the way to go with GWS foamys. I resisted admitting that for over a year because I like my electrics to be silent (or nearly so) but the indisputable fact remains that there is a higher thrust per amp ratio (read: efficiency) potential in geared systems. An added bonus is they are a "plug n' play" mod that doesn't require any further modifications.

Trust me, though: My AXIs aren't wasting away in the bottom of my flight box.

Pete
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Old Nov 07, 2004, 12:05 PM
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Wadmalaw Island ,SC
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Don't know about the "plug and play" thing...


I spent more time calculating gear ratios and prop sizes to get the power I needed. Then If you strip a gear or break a gear , you're grounded. I have 2 of the himax /gb combos and like them alot...but ...have been grounded as a result of GB problems.. NEVER happened with the AXIs
One even survived 2 full power plants with NO damage.

Asdmentioned the rpm/volt is lower on outrunners...it HAS to be as they're direct drive. I have one stick mounted axi 20 that migrates into different airframes... I use a alum mount that's a drop in fit for any stick mount app... I may go ahead and drop it in my GWS Corsair and shoot some vid
g'luck all!

Easy breezy mount
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Old Nov 07, 2004, 12:57 PM
PGR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the Swamp Fox
I use a alum mount that's a drop in fit for any stick mount app...
Not without moving the stick. That mount (and all others like it) will offset the prop shaft by nearly 3/4 inch. That 3/4 inch will prevent the use of most stock cowls and can have a major impact on the way a plane flies.

Occasionally, shifting the thrust line can be beneficial but on a properly designed plane, offsetting the thrust line by 3/4 inch in any direction will typically have an undesireable effect on at least some of the flight characteristics.

A case in point is the Formosa I mentioned. The AXI mount raised the thrust line by 1/4 inch. With the thrust line in the stock location, level inverted flight required some persistant down elevator input but after the mod (with the CG set to the same location), the plane flew exactly the same inverted as it did upright. Neither was completely "hands off" but both only required an occasional bump of the elevator which is about as good as it gets for a precision aerobat.

The plane also had less tendency to tuck during knife-edge slips after the mod.

In this case the effects that moving the thrust line had on my Formosa were welcomed but I've certainly experienced much less favorable results.

Pete
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Old Nov 07, 2004, 02:03 PM
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Wadmalaw Island ,SC
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Good info PGR,

Since my last post , I went ahead and slapped the AXI 20 in the GWS Corsair..

The thrustline is different like ya said... but the Cowl went on no prob .I use the top stick,so my thrustline is lower.Let ya know what happens..Doesn't look as nice .

I've used this setup in a flubber, ultrafly HAWK and now a gws Corsair... It's such a quick change out ,if it doesn't work out I'll switch back to the himax/Cobri box..

Provided I get her back in one piece.


Cleaning up my mess while a pack charges..

I'll let y'all know how it goes..

some pics...

1st Pic : The Vario needs more than my 1500's can offer for good performance,so I fly on a 9x6 E himax 2025/5300 6:1

here's a vid of the himax combo at the beach !!!!

http://www.southcarolinacoastalmagaz...aircoastal.wmv

2nd Pic : The quick and dirty AXI swap out...yes I need to vacuum
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Old Nov 07, 2004, 03:37 PM
PGR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the Swamp Fox
I'll let y'all know how it goes..
I'm genuinely interested. I was going to hazzard a guess how the offset would affect the flight characteristics but I have no experience whatsoever with the reverse gull-wing configuration.

If the wing was flatter, I'd say the plane will require more down elevator for level inverted flight and it will try to roll inverted during a knife-edge slip.

But to be honest, I don't even know if a Corsair will knife edge. I suppose it will but if I had to guess, I'd say it would be a 2-thumb ordeal.

Waiting patiently to hear.

Pete
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Old Nov 07, 2004, 03:49 PM
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Wadmalaw Island ,SC
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AXI Corsair report

Wait no more !

Just got back.

Conditions were the windiest that I've flown the F4U .

Prop wasn't balanced, but oh well ...hit the throttle.Sounded pretty mean resonating through the thin plastic cowl

Hopped off the ground in a few feet.

Instantly noticed more speed and climb than the 2025 on the same prop.

Didn't need any trim ,just had to shove the batt more forward to get the CG were I wanted. I did have to fight the wind a bit, and the landing was less than perfect,but we got her down on the mains at least.

Inverted passes were the same as before.

I don't really knife edge with the Corsair but it will hold one. I usually just lay some rudder in to smooth out nice ,slow ,scale rolls. I have Flubber for ridiculous aerobatics

Overall the Corsair was faster , nimble and lighter.

Duration was about 10 minutes of mostly WOT ...about the same as the himax.
good stuff
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Old Nov 07, 2004, 05:24 PM
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USA, IN, Carmel
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Swamp Fox turned me on to the AXi 2212-20 and I have been more than pleased every time I fly my GWS Corsair! It really eats up the sky. Outflies by far the other 2212 axi motors that my friends fly
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Old Nov 07, 2004, 07:12 PM
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Wow! Lots of good stuff here. My head hurts LOL. I'm not quite sure which way I'll go,outrunner or gearbox. I'm kind of leaning to the himax with the alum.gearbox and the 3 sets of gears. Would the 2025-5400 be the way to go? Or would a different himax be better? Thanks for all the help guys,

Roger
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Old Nov 07, 2004, 08:06 PM
PGR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lookoutbelow
Would the 2025-5400 be the way to go? Or would a different himax be better?
I brought home a GWS Spitfire in the box this weekend. My impetus was the Spitfire another flyer at my home field built. Simply put, it is the fastest and most maneuverable GWS foamy that I have ever seen fly and I've both owned and seen a bunch. I'm talking insanely fast and nutso maneuverable!

I built my last Formosa around an AXI 2212/34 and powered it with TP1320-3S packs but for one weekend, I flew it with a 2212/20 on TP2100-3S packs. It was fast but Mark's Spitfire is MUCH faster.

It's powered by a 2015-5400 in a Himax gearbox and a TP2100-3S battery pack. That part I know for sure because I've seen it for myself. He claims he's using the 4.3:1 gears and an APC 8x8 E prop but my calculations show that that combo would draw far more watts than the 2015 motor is rated for.

Regardless, it has the 2015 Himax in it and I can't imagine why anyone would want or need anything more. The extra weight would only make it less maneuverable.

Pete
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Old Nov 07, 2004, 08:14 PM
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Helena, MT
Joined Feb 2003
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Himax has some new outrunners that should perform in the same range as the AXIs at a bargin price and they come with a stick mount.
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