The Purple one is 49 mhz, and the blue one is 27 mhz.

Jim

What I meant was what is the difference between these two new versions and the older black version?

Originally Posted by Bill Mixon

What I meant was what is the difference between these two new versions and the older black version?

We do not know yet. The color scheme makes them Special for QVC. That whole product differentiation thing.

The black ones have a larger variety of components. I got my black one at BJ's Wholesale Club. It was a early production unit with not-as-good motors, battery, tail construction, rotors and landing gear.

There are newer black ones that have better components. You have to inspect a black one to know what it's made of.

The QVC units should have a higher minimum. Once we find out what is in them we can expect them all to be the same.

We are pretty sure they will have the lastest battery. They will probably have better motors. The photos of the tail at QVC.com show they have the improved tail boom.

Later, Mitch

Impatient me, ordered a Black BR from QVC on Sat Oct 30 2004. Then came Tues Nov 4 and the better price with the fancy colors and the 49MHz option. So I ordered another one. I already have 1, so 1 more is enough. You see, I have a marriage to protect.

This means I have to send 1 back. Do I accept delivery and ship a return or do I refuse delivery? According to the lady at QVC chat, refuse is the better deal.

Mitchell Burko: To confirm. When a customer refuses delivery and QVC gets it back from the carrier, then QVC will refund the total cost. Include tax and shipping to the customer?
Monica N: That is correct.

If I accept it first, I have to pay to ship it back. Refuseing saves that cost.

Though you would all like to know that detail.

Later, Mitch

WOW, we are going to fill up this thread too!!! <G> Tons of great info.

Pgoelz, your explanation on IR is perfect. I've been using IR Raytek industrial guns for years in vaccum forming at our aerospace company. I've got cheaper consumer guns and more expensive ones. I usually try and see how many different temps I see between them. I have to say my $90 raytek consumer model is calibrated pretty close to our better guns at work. And when all else fails we use the temperature sensative tape. <G> Thanks much for sharing. I hope you will be able to support the BR in parts and things. I know I've got my fingers crossed that you can work it out!

Msburko, I always try for the easiest method plus I don't like to paint. <G> I double checked my BR last night at home for temps. I hovered and flew for close to 10 mins in my living room. In 4 mins I saw 93 degrees F on the motors. This was after checking each motor in a few places. Let is sit for 1 min and it dropped to 86. The balance of the flight I did almost at once where as the temp was 97 degrees. It never got above that. The stock Li-Po never went above 78 degrees. ALSO, your strap down method, I think, will over load the motors. While you are creating a worst synero due to constant load I'd think your temps will be much higher than the actual flying temp. The rotors see more load if they are held back vs. allowing the heli to actually fly with the lesser loads. While prototyping my 30 size e-heli we did amp/volt/watt tests. We flew around and recorded the variables then I put the heli on the ground and reved it up and added negative pitch to the disk to squish the heli onto the ground to see worst loading. The numbers were much higher vs. the flying loads the system saw when flying. We at times did see higher spikes when flying but they where momentary bursts. Not like the constant heat and load the ground test showed. SOO I think your BR is running cooler when flying and hovering vs. the table strap and run up method.

RATS, I should have shot the motors with the BR in a hover! <VBG> I didn't think of that!!! <heheheh>

However, I have no idea what the safe temp for these tiny motors is...
__________
Best regards,

Ron Osinski
aka - GMRO

was cutting some plastic off my BR with a hot Knife, and got the tail to close to the stove it melted it so I cut most of it off and glued my own on. Seems to work a little better.My wife was complaining to me on how the base of the light fixture looked dirty for all to see , its my shoplight I bring in from the garage. Doe's that make you feel better, Honey? I should of never let her see this picture, now I got to go and clean up my Hobby room

Initial flight performance of box stock BJ sourced BR after second full charge was about 3.5 min initial flight, 1min plus second flight after "recovery" and 45 sec. on 3rd flight after recovery. The 3plus min 1st flight after the second charge was better than the initial flight after the first full charge and the body felt cooler that after the first. I suspect the motors might be "breaking in" after all. This would jibe with m-20 & N-20 break-in in small mag actuator RFFS-100 type rc indoor models.

One of our flyers rec'd his BR from Sears and it has a "0704" sticker on it along with the Sears UPC sticker. The BJ models don't have anything extra stuck on the box. Maybe this is where the dates of mfr that have been on previous posts came from. Examination seems to be the best way to judge BR vintage, yes? In an indoor flying site, you sure can get these rascals up pretty high!

Can anyone tell me how to change the pitch? Mine likes to fly backwards even fully trimmed!

Brucie

Not too long at all. Concise and jam-packed with technical info. Gotta love it!

I might add that if you cannot move the sensor without the temperature changing, then you are probably not filling the measurement spot.

And finally, I/R temperature measurement has all sorts of gotchas. Consider it a rough estimate ONLY unless you take some of the basics into account.

That said, if your motor really is only 120 degrees F, that is not too hot. At least not on the exterior. I'd be more concerned about the brushes and comm, which are not accessible to measure.

BTW, did you ever come to a final conclusion regarding the .7 volts to the tail rotor?

Tell the truth I forgot about measuring it. But if I carefully apply fore and aft "elevator", the tail rotor does seem to start a little quicker in one direction vs. the other. Not sure if that is due to a voltage bias or stick resolution.

And when are you going to get the new model? You're still flying your hacked first generation version?

Heck, I'm happy with generation #1. With a Kokam 340 it flies great, no need to modify it further. I'm charging externally with a Wes Tech so the onboard charger isn't a issue. I don't mind the wires outside of the boom.... in fact, I think I prefer them. Easier to adjust/modify/repair.

Paul
www.pgoelz.com

Originally Posted by GMRO

Pgoelz, your explanation on IR is perfect. I've been using IR Raytek industrial guns for years in vaccum forming at our aerospace company. I've got cheaper consumer guns and more expensive ones. I usually try and see how many different temps I see between them. I have to say my $90 raytek consumer model is calibrated pretty close to our better guns at work.

Hissssssssss.... I was an Ircon rep so Raytek was the competition. I still have a little Ircon handheld that I bought on closeout.... nice little instrument, and you CAN set the emissivity. Has a spot about an inch in diameter, so a little too big for these small motors.

In 4 mins I saw 93 degrees F on the motors. This was after checking each motor in a few places. Let is sit for 1 min and it dropped to 86. The balance of the flight I did almost at once where as the temp was 97 degrees. It never got above that.

That does not sound right. My motors get to close to 50 degrees C by finger test (I almost say ouch) if I fly for three to five minutes. If yours are not exceeding 93 degrees F, that is WAY cooler. Are you sure you are not confusing F and C?

Paul

Hi Paul,

No It's F setting. My motors are not hot to the touch. While there is a slight temp, meaning from off not used the motor feels a certain way to when I fly it to 4 and 5 mins yes there is a difference in what it feels like. This is the small difference I am refering to. I've got some fish tanks too...in the 50 gallon ranges, so I'm pretty good at sensing temps. <G>

I've had Hackers run in the 150 to 160 range in larger e-helis and in the 370 brushless size motors hit about 115 to 120 if geared and powered correctly. I'd say that I can feel a difference between 97 to 120. My BR runs much cooler than my other motors in my e-heli fleet. Heck my humming bird with stock 350 can motor hits 132 F. THAT'S HOT TO THE TOUCH!

My BR began as a black one. I guess newer than the older 0704 vintage?

You are right to say that in all cases we are reading OUTSIDE temperatures so the inner com and brush temps are higher. My larger LI-PO's in the larger e-helis run at 119 to 125...outside temp if all is working correcty. I'm sure the inner connection tabs that are under the heatshrink wrap show much higher temps even though the outside is only 119 F in this case. BUT we can't get to those places... I don't like to see LI-PO temps higher than 128 due to that fact.

Thanks for the input!

___________
Best regards,

Ron Osinski
aka - GMRO

Well I got my BR in from QVC today. This is the Blue 27Mhz model. Out of the box I had to adjust the pitch on 2 of the top rotor blades but other than that I only curved the landing skids. First flight lasted about 3 mins or so of up and down as my apt is kinda small. I have to hold the stick for awhile to achieve forward & backward movement and it has a tendancy to rotate as well but that might be me. I can't get it perfectly trimmed but I imagine that changes with battery charge also. It does seem to have a very slight tendancy to move forward but not much at all. I'm not sure if it's trying to side slip or if it's just me getting used to it. I'm having trouble getting it to hover in place as it seems to either want to go up or down but that is only on the factory charge. So far my cat is not real sure about it and will not get under it when it's hovering. She loves the box it came in though. Packaging is just a white box over the syrofoam. All in all, I'm happy.

Steve-S

Oh yea, Wires are inside the tail boom. Throttle stick is non-ratcheted. Not sure what other improvements are visable w/o taking off the body.

i just ordered 2 bladerunners fron qvc and i have a couple of questions? since i'm new to this(electric not rc) i could use a little help were do you get the lipo batteries and connectors and what charger should i get? will the triton charger work?

Steve-S
When did you order the QVC model? That is quick for the blue model. I ordered mine on Tuesday morning and they have not shipped it as of yet. However I ordered the black one on QVC on Saturday and I should be getting that one in today.

I ordered it just after the first show on QVC ended on the 2nd. The upgraded shipping, from 11/15 to 11/5 approx, was only about $6 and since it was noticeably less than the non 'special price'. I wasn't really expecting it b4 tomorrow but I'm pleasantly surprised. I had a short flight on a full charge and it flew alot better (short because the NiMh 9V in the Tx needed to be charged). I also adjusted the pitch on the blades and can almost trim it stable. I've found that when I try to engage the tail rotor it will start to spin. Hmmmm. Still might be me on the sticks.

Steve-S