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Old Nov 15, 2004, 12:57 AM
Corn-holio
Jared_Zygote's Avatar
Provo Utah
Joined Mar 2004
904 Posts
Freek Darren thats a lot of projects! How big a hanger do you have!!!!?

Mini wing combat sounds so cool! I will be ready to maiden my little one Tuesday. I still think it might be too heavy but Darrens post about using a 3s2p pack in his gives me hope.

Maybe we could have one big unicorn as a drone and all the little guys try to take him down. That would be cool!
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Old Nov 15, 2004, 01:09 AM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,692 Posts
A Unicorn target would be a TOTAL blast. It'd be the Bizzaro World Bomber and little flighters swarming around.

I was really surprised how well mine still flew with that big 2s2p pack in it Jared. And isn't your wing a bigger one than mine?

BTW, my hanger is any space I can find in my Garage. I made two PVC pipe Airplane hangers, but I'm out of room. I may be getting rid of some old used planes someone could fix up and make nice. Maybe I'll bring some next Saturday for everyone to pick over. Most are kinda beat up, but would be a lot quicker to fix up than starting from scratch.

The best two may be a GWS Zero and Scorpio Pup. I can't see myself getting back to either of those anytime soon.

If no one wants them, There are three or four bound for the trash.

Darren
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Old Nov 15, 2004, 01:26 AM
Corn-holio
Jared_Zygote's Avatar
Provo Utah
Joined Mar 2004
904 Posts
I spent all day yesterday cleaning out the garage and building some shelves so I could put the foodstorage all over the walls so I could have more space around my airplane workespace. Its great!! Of coarse now its cold out there....

well, see ya tuesday
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Old Nov 15, 2004, 09:43 AM
Lee
PERFECT LANDING !!!
Lee's Avatar
USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
9,309 Posts
Jared - Both of my 28" flying wings are between 10-11 oz and they have less wing area than you do on the 36" wing. I don't think you will have any problem. It won't be balistic but I think it will fly well. I've got a 36" half made also and I'm going to start with a J250 and upgrade if I need to. I don't have a micro brushless speed control or a small brushless motor yet so I've still got to look around a little to decide what to do next.

Sorry about your motor Todd. I liked the way the gryphon flew with it. Is the plane OK ???

I'll get some foam ordered. It probably won't be here until after thanksgiving, but we can always hope.

Lee
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Old Nov 15, 2004, 12:47 PM
More Combat Please!
Wind_of_Change's Avatar
Utah
Joined Dec 2003
7,925 Posts
Darren,

My glowires are teal and yellow. I have orange, purple, and green as well that I used to fly on my now defunct slow stick. I stopped flying at night because I couldn't find anybody to fly with me, and I'm more of a social flyer. The best colors are the lighter ones. The dark red, dark purple, and dark blue don't show up very well. White is also bland, and doesn't show up well. Yellow, Teal, light green, orange. . . those are the best for visibility. The others look cool too, but should be mixed in with bright ones if you want to use them.

You're welcome to borrow my other set if you wanna try it out before buying, or if anybody else wants to try night flying when you and I go out.

Lee,

I think the Gryphon's okay. I ordered the Razor 400, but will have to take some time to figure out how to make it work on the plane. I'm going to redo the plane entirely, recover it, so it'll be a bit of a project. It's at the top of my list, so I'll probably have it up again in 2 weeks.
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Old Nov 15, 2004, 03:26 PM
Lee
PERFECT LANDING !!!
Lee's Avatar
USA, UT, Orem
Joined Jul 2004
9,309 Posts
I ordered the EPP foam and it will ship tomorrow. I think it took 7 days to get here last time.

The formica mount I have been using on my 28" Wild Wing adapts well to any flat or round motor. The CD motor would require new engineering. The formica mount is strong and light and ties the whole plane together plus increases the size of the battery and radio compartments. I hope to get a brushless motor that will adapt well to this configuration. I'm still planning on the J250 being the main motor I use with my boys but I can do both due to the low cost of this plane and the J250 motor.

If everyone is flying 13-14 oz planes, combat will do less damage. Even loss of props will decrease because the small props are so flexible. The big problem might be making contact because they are so manuverable. I definitely have had more fun flying the smaller planes.

How many of you have had radio interference at any of the sites we have flown at ??? I have a micro transmitter with a built in 10A speed control that has an occassional hard glitch. The manufacturer thinks it might be from the motor and is encouraging a diode and more capacitors to see if that will resolve the problem. Are any of you having problems too !!!

Lee
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Old Nov 15, 2004, 06:01 PM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,692 Posts
Hi Lee,

I've been flying my little wing with a cheapo Hitec Feather with the J250 and it's been fine. I took it out so far I could barely see it, still rock solid signal.

I do have one filter cap on my motors, but no diodes.

I will try to have my 010 upgrade done for tomorrow afternoon. But to be honest, my wing flies great with the little J250. Unless there is a huge difference, I may take my fragile Astro back off and put it somewhere less vulnerable to damage.... my Slow Stick for example.

We'll see how it goes.
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Old Nov 15, 2004, 06:17 PM
just wing it
Flappy's Avatar
Foresthill, California
Joined Jul 2004
698 Posts
Razor 400

I was out of town yesterday. Whew, this thread can move!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind
I ordered the Razor 400, but will have to take some time to figure out how to make it work on the plane.
I see you work quickly. (There's a man who know's a good thing when he sees it!)

I've got a couple different L brackets at home. I'll put them on the scale tonite and report back.

The Razor 400 is 3700 Kv - quite a bit hotter than the Astro 14T at 2300 Kv, which is probably closer to the cdrom motor. You'll have to be alot more careful with this hot wind motor, small changes in prop size (or voltage), can make a HUGE difference. You'll definately want to use a smaller prop on the Razor. And it also helps to have a WattMeter handy!

Here's some food for thought:
P-Calc @ RZ400
Code:
                              Static   In-Flight
                     Static   Thrust   Thrust    PitchSpeed
Lipoly   APC Prop    Amps     (oz)     (oz)      (mph)
11.25V   4.2 x 2     12       16       13        62
11.25V   4.2 x 4     18       24       10        109
7.5V     4.2 x 2     6.5      8        7         45
7.5V     4.2 x 4     10       13       5         81
7.5V     4.5 x 3.5   11       13       7         67
7.5V     4.5 x 4.1   12       15       6         78
7.5V     4.7 x 4.2   13       16       7         76
7.5V     5.5 x 2     12       13       14        37
Note: For the best climb rate, use a low pitch prop @ high voltage.
But be careful with high voltage on that hot motor!

Believe it or not, there was a guy on the forum running his Razor 400 up to 18 amps in very short bursts (1 min). He had it on a Unicorn and was mainly just thermaling, but used the Razor 400 to get up to altitude and then just cut the power and glide. I think it's rated at 10 amps continuous. The heat dissipation is really the main factor. So he was able to run short bursts, then let it cool down. With a heat sink, you should be able to run at higher currents.
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Old Nov 15, 2004, 06:51 PM
More Combat Please!
Wind_of_Change's Avatar
Utah
Joined Dec 2003
7,925 Posts
Flappy,

Thanks for all that good info! I've got a 10 amp ESC in there, and I knew the Razor was rated at 10 amps continuous, so I'm going to try and peg it just over that at 12 amps WOT and see how it does. I have a variety of props to try. I've got the Tanic 2S 1550 and the Tanic 3S 1050. If I have to set up different configurations in my radio for that, no problem. I've got 36 plane models to fill up, so I can have one model for each battery setup. I figured I'd have the 2S for longer flights at slower speeds, and the 3S when I want to go ballistic. I wish I'd have ordered a different 3S though because I forgot the tanics all have those taps on them, which makes the battery almost as wide as a 4S pack. Grr. Oh well, I'm redoing the whole plane anyway, I'll make it work. I also have one of the 400 speed motor heat sinks sitting in my case that I can use if the motor's too hot.

I could just configure my Gryphon with a J250. . . but what would be the fun in that if I can waste another $160 to make it go faster!?

Todd
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Old Nov 15, 2004, 09:00 PM
just wing it
Flappy's Avatar
Foresthill, California
Joined Jul 2004
698 Posts
Brackets

Here's the brackets I have. The one in the middle is the steel one from CombatWings, and the big one is the Aluminium one from EdgeRC The one on the left is an aluminium one from corndoghobbies, which used to make the terni, but I fear they're no longer in business.

From left to right they weigh 11, 17, 20 grams
For the gryphon, I'd like to get the little one in aluminium!
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Old Nov 15, 2004, 09:05 PM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,692 Posts
The S400 heat sinks will be too big Todd.

I have some clam-shell type Himax heatsinks that should fit if you need one.

One thing to watch is the ESC. Controlling amp draw with throttle is no help to the ESC at all. In fact, ESC's usually are hottest when running below full throttle. Throttle manangement is helpful to batteries and brushed motors. BL motors see less help from partial throttle settings also... though they do see some benefit usually.

I had a spreadsheet with actual data on the RZ400 Direct Drive I'll see if I can find for you. Sims are helpful, but sometimes erratic. Looking at that chart, I wouldn't touch 3s with a 10 amp ESC and an RZ400 though. Even a 4x2 is tiny -- and it's clearly pushing everything.

There are lots of cases of RZ motors demagging over 120W. They really are 110W motors. You will have good cooling sitting on your wing though.

Good luck!
Darren
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Old Nov 15, 2004, 09:20 PM
just wing it
Flappy's Avatar
Foresthill, California
Joined Jul 2004
698 Posts
What about the tube?

Wind,
I kinda like your idea about hacking the tube and leaving the aerodynamic lead up to the front of the motor. I'm not sure exactly how much bigger the Razor is than the tube.

Here was my solution for the unicorn!

Of course cutting 3 inches out of the middle of the Uni doesn't really affect the flying performance. On the Gryphon that might not be the case.
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Last edited by Flappy; Nov 15, 2004 at 09:22 PM.
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Old Nov 15, 2004, 10:43 PM
Flying Free
erashby's Avatar
Utah
Joined Aug 2001
1,938 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind_of_Change
I went ahead and ordered the Razor for my Gryphon. And I'm going to cover it with ultracote so it looks nicer. I'm up for some Mini-Wing combat!! That would be frenzied mayhem!
You are going to like the Razor. It is a tight, little, efficient motor. I fly my MSW with it, but there is just something neat about flying a $.50 motor(Okay, now you pay $2-3 for them, but I bought mine when they were yet undiscovered.) I have not yet burnt one out, but my first one is getting weak. I guess I am just cheap. Also, my older 6C Etech 1200s don't put out enough power to satisfy the Razor. I should pry my wallet open and buy some 10C lipos, but part of the fun for me is to see what I can do with little cash.

I covered my MSW with Solite instead of Ultracote to save some weight. I think the Solite is atleast as durable as the colored packing tape that I originally used, and I found it quite easy to apply and much better looking than tape.
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Old Nov 15, 2004, 10:46 PM
Crash happens! :)
Utah
Joined Jun 2002
2,186 Posts
.....
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Old Nov 15, 2004, 11:04 PM
Tight is Right
Darren Hintze's Avatar
Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
7,692 Posts
The 2015's are a bit heavy and the 4100Kv is very hot for DD. Amp draws will be even higher than on the RZ400... and I think the 4100Kv motor really doesn't like more than 10-11A.

Certainly not ideal but it might work with a very small prop and 6 nimh cells or 2s lipos.

The other thing about the Himax motors DD is the shaft is rather weak. If you go with a tiny prop on a pusher, it's better than tractor, but still vulnerable to snapping the shaft or shattering the magnet.
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