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Old Oct 29, 2004, 04:36 PM
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Tony Oliver's Avatar
North-East England
Joined Mar 2002
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Keil Kraft Senator

I've just seen a new post on the UK British Model Flying Association forum about an international competition using this venerable rubber model.

Anyone interested should have a look at http://www.bmfa.org/dcforum/DCForumID6/47.html

Free download of the plan is available.

I have one of these and it's a fun model - easy to build and fly, and a bit different from the normal.

Tony
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Old Oct 29, 2004, 10:03 PM
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Capt Crash's Avatar
Nuevo Mexico
Joined Jul 2004
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Cool stuff, Tonyo. I built a few of the Keil Kraft ships; awesome designs that are still hot flyers. Loved the Ace, the Playboy, and the Competitor. I still have a Competitor in box, awaiting time and space. Gorgeous designs...

Are KK kits still available in the UK?
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Old Oct 30, 2004, 08:32 PM
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Keremeos, BC Canada
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... and Veron? In one of my pilgrimages over ther, I actually saw the Veron factory, but didn't have time to visit. Instead, I bought a Veron Tiger Moth and a Matador (I THINK they were both Veron), and enjoyed both kits immensely. The TM was just barely into trimming when some guy simply HAD to have it, but the Matador gave me many, many hours of trouble-free freeflight flying.

These kits make youi shiver when you open them up, partly because of their history and longevity, partly because the "balsa" in there makes you think that the thing will never fly! The Matador was virtually unbreakable, either during construction or during bad days at the field. I ain't sure how they made them work so well; I think it had to do with the larger size of these models.

Nothing out there like those kits today that I have seen.

Gonna try a Senator this winter, just because.
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Old Oct 31, 2004, 08:57 AM
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The Matador was a Mercury kit. As you say - the wood was selected to make it last. All these things were practical flying models with a high chance of surviving the first trimming flights. I still do my trimming flights over long grass - even the thermal soarers! The basic rules were always given in each kit and are still relevant today. Going back to building them is very satisfying and, above all, is low-tech fun. Don't forget to fit a d/t!
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Old Oct 31, 2004, 09:41 AM
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I have a head start on building one. Here is the prop from the one I had 25 or 30 years ago!
It was a really nice flying model. I don't recall what caused it's demise, but the broken prop hook might be a clue.
Pat MacKenzie
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Old Oct 31, 2004, 09:57 AM
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Unmistakeable noseblock! That looks like the free-wheel system around the winding ring?

Brings tears to your eyes thinking of the damage the bunched up rubber did to the framework.
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Old Oct 31, 2004, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyo
Unmistakeable noseblock! That looks like the free-wheel system around the winding ring?
The same mechanism is shown on the plans. Worked well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyo
Brings tears to your eyes thinking of the damage the bunched up rubber did to the framework.
I should dig around and see if I can find any of the other bits that might have survived (packrat). If I do build another one, I will definitely make sure I can fit the old prop.
I built one Mercury kit which IIRC was the Mentor. I did a google search and couldn't find any pictures, so I am not 100% sure.
Pat MacKenzie
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Old Oct 31, 2004, 02:37 PM
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KK Senator

Jim Moseley has sent the 'Rules' for the comp and it's available:-
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Old Nov 01, 2004, 08:35 AM
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Ajax, Ontario, Canada
Joined Oct 2004
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Capt.Crash and TLyttle:- KeilKraft and Veron kits are no longer in production; however Phil Smith (Veron designer) still has all the plans available for sale.

P.Mackenzie: the 'Mentor' was indeed a Mercury kit, long out of production - neat diamond fuselage model with sparless surfaces and SBF; still quite popular in UK.

??Where exactly are you in downtown Toronto, and where do you fly???
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Old Nov 01, 2004, 08:46 AM
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Senator

If anyone is unfamiliar with the KK Senator .. it looks like this
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Old Nov 01, 2004, 10:50 AM
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Nuevo Mexico
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Wow, it's a thing of beauty... Sad to hear that the kits are no longer available. I bought a few while in the UK about 15 years ago. I like the beautiful plan work and instructions. My KK kits seem to have very high quality balsa. I guess all good things do come to an end...
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Old Nov 01, 2004, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Applehoney
P.Mackenzie: the 'Mentor' was indeed a Mercury kit, long out of production - neat diamond fuselage model with sparless surfaces and SBF; still quite popular in UK.
I managed to find the Mentor plans. I remember it had a really flat glide, and I think a very nice decal in the shape of a bird's wing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Applehoney
??Where exactly are you in downtown Toronto, and where do you fly???
Actually I am in Don Mills, but the Ezone only gave me a choice of Downtown or Buttonville. I used to fly FF in the old "CBC" vacant lot at the Parkway and Wynford drive. Completely full of office buildings for a long time now. Coincidentally, I have not flown FF in a long time either. I flew mainly Rubber and gliders, probably because they were cheapest. Best I ever did at a contest was 1st in Open Rubber at the Can. Nats in 81. Still have the model I used.
I have been flying electric R/C for at least 15 years. I am very active in C/L F2D Combat and Stunt.
I think If I build a new Mentor I would probably trim it in the playing fields at Sunnybrook Park. Tight but close to home. I would have to find someplace bigger to fly in the postal contest.
Pat MacKenzie
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Old Nov 14, 2004, 10:40 PM
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Here's the full 'skinny' on the Postal - saves going to the website link:-

KeilKraft “SENATOR” Global Postal Challenge

January 1st – December 31st 2005

First kitted by KeilKraft in 1950, the ‘Senator’ has become recognised as an excellent design that combines simple robust structure with outstanding performance. Very popular in British ‘Vintage’ events, it also can do well in North American ‘Category III’ classes – Nostalgia Rubber, Moffett and Mulvihill, etc. for which 120 second maximums are a formality and it can be taken well past 180 seconds with little extra effort.

There is no entry fee. The winner will receive a minimum prize of US$80.00, or the equivalent in any other currency – the final sum will reflect exchange rates at the close of the event but presently equates to approximately C$100, £45.00, A$110.00, NZ$120.00, etc. Further enhancement of this sum and/or provision of further prizes is dependent upon any donations received. The lengthy timescale of this Postal is to permit any modeller an opportunity to participate, no matter where in the world they might be located.

Models are to conform to the standard Senator kit plan; the structure may be amended only for the purposes of D/T installation – whether tipping stabiliser (LE down), tipping wing or hinged rear fuselage – and the undercarriage leg may be removable for storage/carrying purposes. Glazing of the ‘cabin’ is optional. Any freewheel propellor up to a maximum of 13” diameter may be used and there are no restrictions on rubber motor size/weight.

Three flights shall be made to a 120 second maximum. If three Maximums are achieved, then successive flights may be made with the maximum increasing by 60 seconds on each occasion, until the target time is not realised e.g. 120. 120. 120. 180. 240. 211 = Total Score 991 seconds
All flights to be pre-nominated to a timekeeper; the initial three should be made on the same day but successive flyoff flights may be made at the flyer’s discretion, similarly timed.

A plan may be viewed at http://members.rogers.com/hunter8477/ with a download also available, or contact me in the event of difficulties, or with any questions that you might have..
Entries/scores may be forwarded to me at any time and I will endeavour to keep particpants informed with regular interim updates as well as a final report and result sheet, which will be further publicised as widely as possible. Accompanying anecdotes and photographs would be very welcome and are encouraged.

I hope that you will give this event your support and also encourage others to participate. The ‘Senator’ is a viceless airplane, easy to build and to fly with very satisfying performance; my only advice is to keep the structure aft of the CG as light as possible to reduce the need for any nose ballast to a minimum.

Happy Flying!

Jim Moseley 19 Banner Crescent, Ajax, Ontario L1S 3S8, Canada

jjmoseley@look.ca (905) 683-3014
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