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Old Oct 27, 2004, 08:06 AM
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Ottawa Intl, Canada
Joined Sep 2004
49 Posts
Electric Jet Design Contest: CF-100 build thread

With winter looming here in the "Great White North" (and no there's no snow here yet ) I've decided to finally get my CF-100 Canuck project going.

The Canuck for those of you that don't know was an all-weather interceptor built by Avro Canada in the early fifties. In fact taxi trials and first flight were in January, 1950. The last CF-100 went out of service in 1980.

A total of 692 were built and sold to both the Canadian and Belgian Air Forces. This was the plane that preceded the famous CF-105 Arrow. For those that have never seen it, it looked like this:



This is a particularly interesting plane for me since my father, who was in the air force in the late 50's and early 60's, flew in them. (He was also present on the day of the first Arrow flight - so guess what I'm building next? ) Through my childhood, he recalled many tales of "The Clunk", so it was a natural scratch build for me. Other reasons:

- It's unique. I haven't seen one anywhere. In fact just finding information and specs has proven challenging.
- It's a good candidate for scale modeling. The inlets and outlets are fairly large and the ducting is a simple straight pipe, so little scale adjustment is required.
- Good old Canadian pride (Just like every US flyer wanting an F-14 or F-16)

I plan to make a 1/13th scale electric version of the CF-100 MK-4 plane using twin Mini-480 fans, with Mega 2T motors and 2 pairs of 3S2P Lipos. I also want to built for retracts (SpringAir 600 series is the current plan), though the first version will probably use fixed gear. Wingspan will be around 49" and the length ~40". The goal is to keep the weight under 70oz's if possible, however, since the fan/motor/esc/battery combo will weigh about a pound each, this will be a definite challenge.

I didn't make the deadline for the build contest :-( but if there is any interest in this project, I'll continue to post pictures and plans as I go through the process. I may also ask for opinions when I run into some problems.

It isn't a well-known aircraft (part of the appeal), but I'm hoping it has a bit of a following. If you are interested in this project, please let me know.

Steve
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Old Oct 27, 2004, 08:48 AM
2thFxr
Doc Dyer's Avatar
Sevierville, Tennessee
Joined Jan 2002
779 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by s_gutz

I didn't make the deadline for the build contest :-(

Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by arbo
Ok. For those that PM'd or emailed me after the cutoff date. I'll reopen it. Re-send your entries. The end date of the contest will never end. But I will stop taking entries November 1st.
contact Arbo for your entry...hurry just a few days left

Bradley
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Old Oct 27, 2004, 08:55 AM
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Ottawa Intl, Canada
Joined Sep 2004
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Yep I just realized that there is still time, so I e-mailed Arbo. I just hope I can get it finished before the end of the contest :-)
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Old Oct 27, 2004, 11:58 AM
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David Winter's Avatar
Vancouver, British Columbia
Joined Mar 2004
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I have some good three views of the CF-100 from the Astra vacumformed kit. I've not seen any others. There's also a good CF-100 book on the market similar to the Arrow book.

I've tossed around the idea of an EDF50 or EDF40 Canuck for a while but became sidetracked by my Arrow project.

A CF-100 would be a good model to build too. simple enough straight wings, big intakes, lots of room up the middle for radio gear.

I'm keeping an eye on this thread.
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Old Oct 27, 2004, 02:28 PM
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Canada, ON, Kingston
Joined Aug 2000
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I have a good multi view with cross sections, (and a "gate guardian" within 20 min if you need photos.) Is there one at Rockcliffe?

Martin
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Old Oct 27, 2004, 03:32 PM
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David Winter's Avatar
Vancouver, British Columbia
Joined Mar 2004
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This is the Canuck book I have and it's a great resource;

http://www.canavbooks.com/Publications/AvroCF100/

Unfortunately out of print but you might find one in old book stores.
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Old Oct 27, 2004, 03:43 PM
Permanently Banned
San Jose Ca / RSA flyer
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There was a 2 part story of the "THE Arrow " on the true history channel on DTV about 2 months ago
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Old Oct 27, 2004, 04:31 PM
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Vancouver, British Columbia
Joined Mar 2004
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That's probably "The Arrow". A CBC made for TV movie. It took some liberties with the story although the majority is pretty close to factual. Contrary to what that movie would imply, the Arrow designers didn't invent the delta-wing (I think the Germans did that?). And I think the part about the coke-bottle in the wind tunnel is a bit of urban legend, but otherwise the movie does a good job to show that the aircraft design and construction method was a good 30 years before its time.

With design 30 years ahead of its time like that, would Canada be landing men on Mars now? It makes one wonder....
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Old Oct 27, 2004, 04:43 PM
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Lyon (France)
Joined Apr 2004
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I use to realise a Cannuck last winter. My plane was small (90 cm) and motorise by two wasa-55 ducted fan (permax 280bb) and Irate 2200 LiPo accu.

Unfortunatly, my plane only flew two times and was damage by a buggy launch.

You can find good 3 views of this plane here :http://www.airwar.ru/other/draw/cf100.html
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Old Oct 27, 2004, 04:55 PM
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United States, FL, Cape Coral
Joined Nov 2003
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Yanks

Now don't forget us Yanks, we were working hard and fast building the Mach 2.5 supersonic bomber, the B-58 Hustler in those days. We did it and it was called "area rule". I do not know if the coke bottle story is real or not. I did not fly the plane but I was there during the design phase. Fantastic. There was not a fighter in the sky that could catch us!

Hurricane Larry
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Old Oct 27, 2004, 05:25 PM
A-4 nut!!
skyhawk's Avatar
Vancouver B.C.
Joined Apr 2002
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Quote:
There was not a fighter in the sky that could catch us!
Except for the Iroquois powered Arrow!!
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Old Oct 27, 2004, 05:34 PM
ooooh yeah
Frenche's Avatar
Ballarat, Victoria, Australia
Joined May 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lslewis
There was not a fighter in the sky that could catch us!

Hurricane Larry
Besides the the Iroquois powered Arrow, the MiG-25 Foxbat could catch you and go by you at Mach 3

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Old Oct 27, 2004, 05:40 PM
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The Arrow was a Jet Rocket, 100,000 feet, it touched SPACE

The B-58 sure looked like the Vindicator bomber in the the movie with George C. Scott and Peter Sellers or was it in 'FAILSAFE" with Henry Fonda ?
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Old Oct 27, 2004, 05:46 PM
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Vancouver, British Columbia
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Larry, it wasn't just the speed of the aircraft (although the Arrow would have flown circles around a Hustler). A big part of it's lore was its manufacturing process. For example, the Arrow used composite materials before there was even a word for them. Going from paper drawing to flying aircraft with no mock up stage was unheard of. Well there were a couple of wooden mock ups but no metal ones which was not (and is not) the standard process done by other aircraft manufactures.

Yes, and lets not forget those engines. The B85 had Four General Electric J79-GE-1 turbojet engines rated at 10,500 st. or 16,000 st. 69.4 Kn with afterburners.

The Arrow, a smaller, lighter aircraft, had in the mk1 version Two Pratt & Whitney J-75 P-3 each producing about 18,500 lbs of thrust (same engines the US F-105 used).

However the upgrade would have had two Orenda Iroquois at 20,000 lbs. St., 25,000 lbs. So here are two engines, in a smaller, lighter aircraft that have the same combined thrust as all four of the J79's in a much larger heaver aircraft.

There are photos of a B47 with a single Iroquois engine strapped to the back. If flew faster with that single engine than it did with all four of its native engines.
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Old Oct 27, 2004, 06:29 PM
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Ottawa Intl, Canada
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Wow what a response! Sounds like there is a bit of interest after all. I was sure no one would remember the CF-100. Hopefully the Arrow bantering will calm down. I agree that the Arrow was a great plane, but in a sense it died before it could be proven. Like all Canadians, I'd like to believe that it was the greatest plane of it's time, but in trials it did have many recurring problems - such as landing gear folding on contact on at least 2 of the prototypes. Apparently the Iroquois engine fit up in 206 wasn't a smooth process either.

Just remember that the CF-100 was in it's own right a great plane that pioneered many design aspects of its own.

Eric.Payne Nice plane. I notice you had to enlarge the outlets slightly. I came to the same conclusion, though I plan to do some bench tests before I commit to the final design so I can see how small I can make them and still get the thrust. Thanks for the 3-view source, it confirms that my plan is relatively accurate.

David, I have found a few good books on-line from used books stores. Virtually everything on the Canuck is out of print now. Fortunately my father has many pictures and even a few technical bits on the plane. Good time to build a model before all knowledge is lost forever. Since we talked last I have put the plane in AutoCAD and I've started to build the wings and tail. I'll post some pictures as soon as I can.

Since I live in Ottawa I am fortunate enough to be 10 minutes from the Aviation Museum I have good access to planes and info. The museum actually has 3 CF-100's. Two are in storage, but accessible and one is on loan to another museum in southern Ontario. There are also a couple on pedistals not far from here (Trenton, Kingston and North Bay).

Once I get the plan solid and actually build a flying plane, I'll certainly be happy to share the CAD files with anyone who wants to build one. I just wanted to recreate the plane not try to profit from it. :-)
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