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Old Oct 29, 2004, 02:27 PM
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It's not the ajendas of Dems vs Reps that trouble me at all. I thought Rep. Regan and Dem. Clinton were both great (not so sure about Bush Snr). Regards Bush Jnr. I'm just fatigued by the constant threat to personal security and that of my family that comes from a US president that has a bias for pre-empting war (and dragging us into it) and aparently not the first instinct or ability in the field of diplomacy with either friend or foe. "Walk softly and carry a big stick" requires an individual with a grasp of both concepts, Kerry is the sole canditate who offers both of these traits. By contrast Bush has shown himself fully polarised towards the stick with an unparalleld lack of presidential statesmanship (before and after 911) making friends uncomfortable, neutrals incensed and doubtless making enemies feel fully justified in their murderous intent. As a member of a friendly nation I am genuinely concerned by this, even at a distance. I sure as hell don't buy the argument that I or anyone else is safer with him around and at risk of offending those opposed to the idea, I will breathe a huge sigh of relief to see him go.
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Old Oct 29, 2004, 02:31 PM
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I can see where Kerry has the 'walk softly' part down.. as he tenderly treads around givng answers to most things.

As to him a the "big stick". I don't see anywhere in his past where he would have used the "big stick", and certainly, if you carry one, you better be willing to use it.

Paul
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Old Oct 29, 2004, 02:45 PM
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For sure I can't see any American president withdrawing from real and present danger. The problem is a president that actively goes looking for trouble. Do you really fancy a nucler spat with N Korea and with it a new cold war or otherwise with China?
No, I'd like to say 'thank you Mr war president, fine job of nailing the Taliban and Sadam, but now we need a peace time president to clear up the mess and re-build burnt bridges.
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Old Oct 29, 2004, 02:49 PM
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We won't need a peacetime president for quite some time. And next week you may get to see the first president that pulls away from real danger. I hope not, but it could happen.
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Old Oct 29, 2004, 03:16 PM
Build/Fly/Crash/Repeat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbo
We won't need a peacetime president for quite some time.
Quite true, because regardless of who wins the election the mess created by the current administration will take many years to resolve.

FlightPower,
Most Americans realize we are not an island and how the world views us is important, both to our everyday lives and our place in the world economy.
To think anything else shows a complete lack of understanding of how the world functions, especially today.

The fact that the current administration is hanging by a thread is the true indicator of just how unhappy American voters are. Half of the nations voters indicate they want a change - that should tell you a lot.

You're correct - burnt bridges need to be rebuilt. The Iraq mess needs direction and focus. Americans are not happy with the mess this administration has created.

That doesn't mean our fight against terrorism will diminish one bit. As you stated, no President is going to back down from that fight. Anyone who claims that has their head buried in partisan sand. Or somewhere else.
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Old Oct 29, 2004, 03:29 PM
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I'm curious, do the American people generally accept the argument that you are at war

or

is the general view that you are a people at peace who are under threat of unprovoked terrorist attack?

or

is it that the Bush administration is at war and a peacable American people are at heightened risk of being caught in the crossfire

From a disance it looks like number 3 and that's how it feels to most of 60 Million of us - i.e. Bush is a major part of the problem he claims to be the best guy to solve.

I am sure that a change in President (and Prime Minister for that matter) would have a dramatic effect on the attitudes of friends and foes alike towards us.
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Old Oct 29, 2004, 03:36 PM
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#1.
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Old Oct 29, 2004, 03:39 PM
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The bush supporters claim to believe that there is indeed a 'war'.

The majority of Kerry supporters take the more rational view.

But I don't know if you are familiar with the American usage of the word 'war'.

We have an ongoing 'war on drugs', (the socio-recreational kind, of course) for example. And we long ago surrendered to the enemy in Lyndon Johnson's 'war on poverty'.

I would suspect that Americans use the word in a much less discriminating manner than speakers of English in other countries.

I can point out an experience I had a few weeks ago...I was honored to be a guest at a reunion of WW2 veterans...a discussion of dubya's 'war on terra' came up. You should have seen those old guys tear bush a new one. Having lived through a REAL war and made the unimaginable sacrifices all true wars demand of the citizenry, they were absolutely enraged at bush, his policies, and most of all, his claims of being 'at war'.

I love those WW2 vets.
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Old Oct 29, 2004, 03:46 PM
Out of Time
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The world population of Muslim Extremists are at war, not only with America, but are at war with any part of the world that will not bend to their will.
George Bush had nothing to do with that; that "situation" has been developing for decades and is now coming to a head. That is, WWIII.

Now just like WWII, the West has to decide that we are going to win... period. That's why Bush is the right president, at the right place, at the right time.

Highflight

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlightPower
I'm curious, do the American people generally accept the argument that you are at war

or

is the general view that you are a people at peace who are under threat of unprovoked terrorist attack?

or

is it that the Bush administration is at war and a peacable American people are at heightened risk of being caught in the crossfire

From a disance it looks like number 3 and that's how it feels to most of 60 Million of us - i.e. Bush is a major part of the problem he claims to be the best guy to solve.

I am sure that a change in President (and Prime Minister for that matter) would have a dramatic effect on the attitudes of friends and foes alike towards us.
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Old Oct 29, 2004, 03:48 PM
Out of Time
United States, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badaltitude
The bush supporters claim to believe that there is indeed a 'war'.

The majority of Kerry supporters take the more rational view.

But I don't know if you are familiar with the American usage of the word 'war'.

We have an ongoing 'war on drugs', (the socio-recreational kind, of course) for example. And we long ago surrendered to the enemy in Lyndon Johnson's 'war on poverty'.

I would suspect that Americans use the word in a much less discriminating manner than speakers of English in other countries.

I can point out an experience I had a few weeks ago...I was honored to be a guest at a reunion of WW2 veterans...a discussion of dubya's 'war on terra' came up. You should have seen those old guys tear bush a new one. Having lived through a REAL war and made the unimaginable sacrifices all true wars demand of the citizenry, they were absolutely enraged at bush, his policies, and most of all, his claims of being 'at war'.

I love those WW2 vets.
It's interesting that your account of WWII vets seems to bear no relationship to what the MAJORITY of all military personnel in the US feel about Bush, American Freedoms, and the sacrifices that must be made to keep those freedoms.
Is Kerry's dad still alive?... was he one of those vets? Like father like son?

Highflight
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Old Oct 29, 2004, 03:51 PM
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Yeah Highflight....you believe we're 'at war'. THAT's why you bushies refuse to pay taxes to support your country in its hour of need.

BIZZARRO WORLD strikes again.
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Old Oct 29, 2004, 04:09 PM
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Hey, yeah! Who ever heard of tax cuts in a time of war? How unpatriotic! Might as well hand over the white house keys to Osama.
If we are at war, how come we don't invade Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia? Those places are FULL of Muslim Extremists.
GWB ain't got the guts? Is he APPEASING those countries? Is that it? If we ARE at war, he sure is going about it half-cocked. He just cannot commit.
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Old Oct 29, 2004, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easytiger
If we are at war, how come we don't invade Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia? Those places are FULL of Muslim Extremists.
Ask, and you shall receive...
Patience, my friend.

Highflight
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Old Oct 29, 2004, 04:33 PM
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PATIENCE? We ARE AT WAR! Strike NOW!
We CANNOT be giving these people arms(they buy a TON of arms from us) and cash(we buy a TON of oil from them) if we are AT WAR WITH THEM!
What kind of insanity is that? We are at war, but we are selling them fighter jets?
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Old Oct 29, 2004, 04:40 PM
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Let us not forget this interview: (records not public, but "you can see my records on my web site".. hmm)

Brokaw: Someone has analyzed the President's military aptitude tests and yours, and concluded that he has a higher IQ than you do.

Kerry: That's great. More power. I don't know how they've done it, because my record is not public. So I don't know where you're getting that from
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