How dangerous / or toxic is CF dust?

[Orion_V]

I know its most likely not a good idea to be exposed to Cf dust on a regular basis but how toxic is it? Once in a while I'll just take my dremel and cut a small piece of CF from some stock I have to make certain odds and ends without going outside. I know I breath in at least a little of it even though I try to avoid it. . Probably should get one of those white nose / mouth masks. Is CF dust VERY dangerous?

[robert harik]

I think the main danger is the mechanical damage the fibers do to your lungs.

[vintage1]

Any particle that doesn't get sloughed off your skin or coughed out of your lungs stays and causes a problem.

If it has more thana pysical effect e.g. one of teh nastiest things that can happen to your lungs is a particlke of radioactive plutinium, thatgets embedded, and upsets cell reproduction and repair around it, and may cause a cancer.

Most of the data we have on indusrtail illnesses comes from people exposed over long periods - silicosis, asbestosis, farmers lung, etc.

The data on low exposure is far less certain and far more open to interpretation. Ther are those who hold that below a threshold, the body copes and no illness or chance of it happens. Or conversely that a single exposure could indeed make a huge difference if you are unlucky.

Todays blame and sue culture makes it necessary that overprecautions are taken by workers in industrial enviornments. Whether this is appropiate at home, is a moot point.

So a long answer that says 'we don;t really know' . At my age, I am partly more health conscious, and partly less - more because health statrs to deteriorate as you get older. less because there is less life to lose, and its not quite as precious as it was.

Hope this helps. YMMV always...

[olmod]

I know of one modeller who had to have quite a lump of meat carved out of a finger because of build up of fibres ,I was advised the safest way of working it is to ware 2 pairs of rubber glove and work it under water and when finished dont throw the water on your vegy patch to prevent it getting into the food chain, the fibres are microscopic and easily float and even pass through simple paper type filters once in the lungs can easily pass through the cell walls enter the blood stream to lodge who knows where,

[compositepro]

Originally Posted by olmod

I know of one modeller who had to have quite a lump of meat carved out of a finger because of build up of fibres ,I was advised the safest way of working it is to ware 2 pairs of rubber glove and work it under water and when finished dont throw the water on your vegy patch to prevent it getting into the food chain, the fibres are microscopic and easily float and even pass through simple paper type filters once in the lungs can easily pass through the cell walls enter the blood stream to lodge who knows where,

the biggest danger isnt the fibre, whilst irritating and a foreign body they are fairly neutral in terms of toxicicty, the danger of carbon fibre is the resin sytems used in the binding of the fibres

epoxies are carcinogenic and anything that is amine curing will give you varying problems from irritated skin to possible cancer more so if internally ingested

surplus to this a lot of chemicals used to remove epoxies or polyester resins if you manage to get them on your body are also pretty nasty

[Ham-fisted-oaff]

I was sanding down the glass on my Spitfire wing a few weeks ago and the dust really irritated my lungs, aready resembling a couple of prunes due to my 40-a-day habit.

Went to Ace and bought a 5-pack of disposable dustmasks for 5 bucks. End of problem.

[the-plumber]

Originally Posted by Ham-fisted-oaff

Went to Ace and bought a 5-pack of disposable dustmasks for 5 bucks. End of problem.

Almost totally worthless in terms of protection. Disposables don't fit well and even if you take pains to keep them snug the filter material is just about good enough to stop the particles >you can see<.

I figured fifty bucks or so should buy a decent filter mask, and it did :
$33 for the respirator and another $20 for a set of spare cartridges.

See the photo album "Dust Control" on my web site at home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber

[leccyflyer]

I saw some pictures on the net a while back which may be those that Oldmod may be referring to, of a modeller in NZ who developed a horrid cartilagenous growth as a response to a tiny fragment of CF lodged in one of his fingers. I have treated the stuff with the utmost respect since- cutting it on a damp paper towel and cleaning up immediately afterward. An organic solvent capable filter should provide the best protection as ventilation doesn't help, since you don't want to be blowing this stuff around the workshop.

Take care.

Brian

[the-plumber]

Originally Posted by leccyflyer

An organic solvent capable filter should provide the best protection as ventilation doesn't help, since you don't want to be blowing this stuff around the workshop.

True enough about the solvent-capable filter, but the addition of a whole-shop air filter system such as is depicted in "Dust Control" at home.mindspring.com/~the-plumber is equally valuable in capturing particles which evade the vacuum.

[redstar]

Hello folks,
I followed this post with great interest,as I worked a long time ago[about 25 years ago],0n the research and developement of BILL LEARS pusher prop drive air craft ,the LEAR FAN.
Carbon fibre [lots of it] both in cloth form and PRE/PREG was used. the air was always full of floating fibres and dust,few workers wore masks,other than those in the TRIM AND DRILL section where the parts were cut to finished size.I rarely wore one as it made the face sweat and allowed the fibres to. irritate my skin.[I did not work in the TRIM AND DRILL]
The fibres [we were told ]would not be injurious to our health,as they were of a different structure to those of ASBESTOS fibres.
The danger lay in the UNCURED material,i/e the resins,most of the hardeners and accellorants were supposedly carcinogenic.
In the fully cured state,the resin and the fibres were reputed to be totally inert. Indeed 25 years later I am running around with a large splinter of CARBON FIBRE from the wing mould lodged deep in my knuckle,consultant told me to leave it there as it was in the INERT state and would cause me no problems,nor has it after 25 years.
I found that the best approach to handling carbon fibre cloth,i/e long term,was to work with it bare armed,the reason being, if armlets and gloves are worn,the skin heats up allowing the fibres to irritate the pores.
As for the resins,I always wore gloves when mixing,taking special care where accellorators were concerned,both hands and eye protection was used.
Dont be afraid to use this material,[CARBON FIBRE],but rember to take all due care when using resins and when handling work in the UNCURED state.
All the best for now,
John.

[krash]

Yipes! Is fiberglass as bad? After I saw fiberglass, I can smell something funny in the air. Oops.

[Orion_V]

Thanks for the info John, and everyone else...I just thought this would be an important topic to discuss, considering the popularity of this material in our hobby.

Originally Posted by redstar

Hello folks,
I followed this post with great interest,as I worked a long time ago[about 25 years ago],0n the research and developement of BILL LEARS pusher prop drive air craft ,the LEAR FAN.
Carbon fibre [lots of it] both in cloth form and PRE/PREG was used. the air was always full of floating fibres and dust,few workers wore masks,other than those in the TRIM AND DRILL section where the parts were cut to finished size.I rarely wore one as it made the face sweat and allowed the fibres to. irritate my skin.[I did not work in the TRIM AND DRILL]
The fibres [we were told ]would not be injurious to our health,as they were of a different structure to those of ASBESTOS fibres.
The danger lay in the UNCURED material,i/e the resins,most of the hardeners and accellorants were supposedly carcinogenic.
In the fully cured state,the resin and the fibres were reputed to be totally inert. Indeed 25 years later I am running around with a large splinter of CARBON FIBRE from the wing mould lodged deep in my knuckle,consultant told me to leave it there as it was in the INERT state and would cause me no problems,nor has it after 25 years.
I found that the best approach to handling carbon fibre cloth,i/e long term,was to work with it bare armed,the reason being, if armlets and gloves are worn,the skin heats up allowing the fibres to irritate the pores.
As for the resins,I always wore gloves when mixing,taking special care where accellorators were concerned,both hands and eye protection was used.
Dont be afraid to use this material,[CARBON FIBRE],but rember to take all due care when using resins and when handling work in the UNCURED state.
All the best for now,
John.

[Apivat J]

Can anybody tell me what "carcinogenic" means? I had direct contact with epoxy and polyester resin quite a few times. I used to mix calcium powder with 30min epoxy with my bare hands. When you mix enough calcium powder you can roll the hardener and resin into two separate lump. Mixing the two together later gives you a nice putty.

For polyester resin, I was trying to layup a wing panel with a brush but ended up having the resin all over my bare hands. After a while I develop a kind of small yellowish lump in the lines on both my palms and at the joints of the fingers. They are painful when press against.

Has anyone got the similar kind of symptom? Any suggestion for the cure?

[Discharger]

"carcinogenic" means cancer causing. Regarding ther painful lumps on your hands, you should seek medical advice ASAP and modify your working methods when around this material.

[leccyflyer]

Apivat - you should definitely see a doctor, bearing in mind that medical advice that you might receive over the internet is of doubtful origin and cannot address your own particular circumstance.