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Old Feb 01, 2010, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Frank_K View Post
Messerschmitt KR200 (anno 1955)
Correct, of course.
It's been a while since I've seen one in the streets.
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 02:30 PM
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Who is the young man and why have all those bars been painted on the tail of his plane? Oh, what plane is it?
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 02:51 PM
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Bulent,

Correct on:

#10895 Hutter H-17
#10898 is a Cirrus Moth and the man is Victor Woodason
His story here: https://commerce.mysecuresites.com/h.../woodason.html
#10902 A bird out of focus (the mysterious Witchita UFO/secret military a/c incident)!!!
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 03:10 PM
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#10907 Hans Wind in front of his Brewster B-239 numbered "BW-393" belonging to 3./LLv 24. Wind shot down 26 1/2 Soviet aircraft with this particular Brewster.

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Old Feb 01, 2010, 03:15 PM
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perttime,

How could you forget the postwar rival Heinkel Kabine "bubble-car"???



Also, Messerschmitt postwar made prefab housing and sewing machines along with the bubble cars. Here is a Bell-Messerschmitt sewing machine!!!

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Old Feb 01, 2010, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlondeValkyrie View Post
#10907 Hans Wind in front of his Brewster B-239 numbered "BW-393" belonging to 3./LLv 24. Wind shot down 26 1/2 Soviet aircraft with this particular Brewster.
Correct.
... more than 1/3 of his total "score" during the war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlondeValkyrie View Post
Heinkel Kabine "bubble-car"???
I don't think I've ever seen one live. But I've seen Messerschmitts on the road...
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 05:29 PM
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OHMSS,

Totally bizarre... but then again the XF4H-1 was originally to be called either Satan or Mithras and rejected!!! What was up with McDonnell and occult names like Banshee, Demon, and Voodoo???

Chuck A's comments are probably the most valid (?)... am curious what he would say about the occult name choices.

BV
I never heard anything about the names proposed for the F4. McDonnell had a contest among McDonnell employees to name the F4H and I was there when Mr Mac announced the winner. I remember the occasion because someone used aluminum angle on the plate to protect the nose when the girl tried to break a bottle of chamagne on the plane to cristen it. The bottle bounced without breaking. After several swings, someone hit the bottle with a hammer as she started a swing and champagne sprayed everwhere. Mr. Mac then commented that McDonnell designed good airplanes, not bottle breakers.
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 08:25 PM
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Speaking of postwar German cars, these preceded the Messerschmitt and Heinkel bubble cars:

VW trikes:





And the failed British Postwar 1946 Radclyffe Roadster Kdf Wagen copy. Only 2 were built in Germany:



More info at my site:
http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/HitlerKDF.htm
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 08:31 PM
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Chuck A,

Thanks for your remarks and experiences with McDonnell.

I was just curious about the shift to political correctness with the rejected occult names.

IIRC, that started at the end of WW2 with the XB-32 "Terminator"... but we didn't want to offend the Japanese, so the production B-32 was changed to "Dominator"!!!

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Old Feb 01, 2010, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
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OHMSS,

I fully agree on the YAH-1 FSE designation confusion and only added the other info to show the transition to XF4H-1. Most agree on that latter designation, but I have seen also F4H-1, F4H-1A, and F4H-1N!!!

Neither of the last two follow the standard US military a/c designation system, but some a/c historically are designation "anomalies" (like F-117). I suppose "A" in this case would be for Air Force and "N" for Navy

BV
Wow!, the waters are getting pretty muddied now!

Actually, under the 1922-1962 USN designation system ALL of the F4H designations above would be valid and logical! However, only one (F4H-1) was ever used to the best of my knowledge.

It is well to remember that even the exact meanings of X and Y in the Navy system are not necessarily the same as in the USAAC/USAAF/USAF system. Having said that, and in spite of the USN official stance that X is for experimental aircraft and Y is for Service test aircraft, in the period under consideration, they were simply not consistent with the usage of X and Y.

In this case there was no XF4H-1, as the two prototypes were initially ordered as YAH-1s and the contract subsequently changed to YF4H-1. By contrast the Crusader prototype was XF8U-1 rather than YF8U-1! Just happened that way I guess.

OK, suffix letters........
These were laid down in the system, and I'm quoting from Putnam's 'United States Navy Aircraft since 1911', but I'm sure that the information is available online at Aerofiles, etc

The available letters had more than one meaning, and suffix 'A' could mean...

Miscellaneous modification,
Armament on normally unarmed aeroplane,
Arrester gear on normally non-carrier aircraft,
Built for Army or obtained from Army,
Amphibious version, or
Land based version of carrier aircraft.

The 'N' suffix could mean........

Night Fighter, or
All Weather Operation.

So, in the case of the Phantom, since it was designed to be an all weather aircraft, the addition of the 'N' suffix would be superfluous as that would be saying it is an all weather version of an all weather fighter, OK?

The 'F' suffix can refer to.....

Flagship conversion, or
Special Power Plant.

And in the case of the Phantom the 'F' suffix is used to denote the 'interim' J79-GE-2.

ChuckA,

I'm sure you're right about production at McDonnell, and that the company considered perhaps the first 47 aircraft as prototypes, the USN being a bureaucracy, had to designate things as they did as two 'prototypes' and 45 'development and initial production' aircraft (I cannot imagine the US Government agreeing to buy an aircraft that would require 47 'prototypes' - but 2 'prototypes' and 45 pre-production aircraft, that's different!). I think perhaps with so many pre-production aircraft, the RLM versuch number system (V1 through V47) might have been a better idea.

Even the German system became muddied when individual airframes were allocated both experimental numbers (Ar 240 Vsomething) and pre-production identities as well (Arado Ar 240C-0).

Such is life!
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Last edited by OHMSS; Feb 01, 2010 at 10:42 PM.
Old Feb 01, 2010, 10:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlondeValkyrie View Post


Note: Not the old version
The new version:

Antilles Seaplanes G-21G Super Goose
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 10:50 PM
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Thomas B,

Correct on #10901 Antilles Seaplanes G-21G Super Goose
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Old Feb 01, 2010, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
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Hordern-Richmond Autoplane
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Old Feb 02, 2010, 12:40 AM
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OHMSS,

Correct on #10897 Hordern-Richmond Autoplane
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Old Feb 02, 2010, 12:42 AM
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#10900 Bird of Prey (Hawker Hunter in USAF livery) from Fatboy Slim's "Sunset" 2000 video:



http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.co...etaert/00.shtm

It's origin and what happened to it:
http://www.thunder-and-lightnings.co...vor.php?id=301

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