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Old Oct 10, 2004, 05:27 PM
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soholingo's Avatar
Laurel, MD
Joined May 2001
12,675 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishstyx
I'm not sure how that's relevant to anything I said. Ughh, this is going nowhere and has become rheotrical. We're not even talking about the same thing. Best of luck with your efforts. I respect anyone puts in the kind of effort and resources needed to get it done. Hopefully, you'll share your progress.

... and now is official, we've totally hijacked eye_rc_soar's thread.
It wasn't directed directly at you Jason... But like lipos, like gp1100s, etc... you just have to do it for people to believe...
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Old Oct 10, 2004, 05:44 PM
Beware of squishy fishy
Fishstyx's Avatar
Carlisle, PA, United States
Joined May 2003
684 Posts
amen brother!!
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Old Oct 10, 2004, 05:50 PM
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soholingo's Avatar
Laurel, MD
Joined May 2001
12,675 Posts
By the way, I have asked Andy to split this thread into two threads. Don's original thread should be left alone....
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Old Oct 10, 2004, 07:09 PM
corrupted - 17x18 or more
eye_rc_soar's Avatar
College Park, Maryland, United States
Joined Nov 2003
506 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by soholingo
By the way, I have asked Andy to split this thread into two threads. Don's original thread should be left alone....
It doesn't bother me, because the affordable F5B plane for the US flyer may be because someone has created a set of molds that can be shared.

Personally I feel every flyer at some time should build his own plane. I mean a plane of same general construction as they are flying. Only then do they really appreciate what is involved. Myself, been there, done it. And I have no desire to do it again. My free time is too valuable to me.

don
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Old Oct 10, 2004, 08:41 PM
F5B, helis...too much
Fairfax, VA
Joined Mar 2002
370 Posts
Performance planes

Ok, getting back to the main subject of the post.

I've been flying the Sirius and the Victor for a couple of years. I too experienced a wing failure (wing snapped in half near center) during a dive with the Sirius, but I think it was a hidden structure weakness that resulted from previous rough landings. Assuming the Sirius structure is sound, I find the Victor to be a much faster plane. Quality is better and parts are available on the Victor. The Victor is considered by the importer to be "competition grade." I think it means it's relatively lightweight. To me, the fuse is quite fragile. A rough landing could easily result in fuse creases and/or surface cracks. Nonetheless, I'm quite pleased with this plane, especially with the price.

The Victor importer, M.A.P. in New York, is about to offer another plane called the Vigor. It is said to be faster than the Victor (which has RG14 airfoil), ideally suited for 16-cells at 200+ amps draws, and able to meet 2005 contest rules. If it's faster than the Victor, I'm all ears. I heard it will be priced between $550-$600.

tufnik
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Old Oct 10, 2004, 08:54 PM
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soholingo's Avatar
Laurel, MD
Joined May 2001
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At that price, they need to add a kevlar fuse. The fiberglase fuse that comes with the victor won't cut it...
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Old Oct 11, 2004, 12:52 AM
Registered User
California
Joined Sep 2004
12 Posts
More on materials..

My 2 cents..

Here is an approximate list of the airframe materials used in my 2002
Verminator 02.(a higher performance model)




The numbers include waste. All materials were purchased retail except for Rohacell.
Prices in California Dollars.
Discount the fact that I purchased 120 Dollars worth of MGS for 2 airplanes.

FUSELAGE: .6m^2 1.8ozKevlar $13.20

.15m^2 .75 oz glass $ .38
IMS carbon tow $ .5
70g mgs epoxy $ 1.68





WING : 40g UMS tow (weissgerber) $ 14.
.8m^2 80g carbon cloth (Weissgerber) $ 32.


300g MGS epoxy(lots ofwaste) $ 7.5
kevlarhinge $ . 5

.7m^2 .75oz glass (inner layer) $ 1.8

3/4 sheet 1.5mm Rohacell(22$ per sheet purchased wholesale) $16.5
Balsa/Carbon Shearwebs,Ribs $6.

STAB Ingredients top secret altogether $4.


Small Stuff Paint(K&B) 40g, Thinner $4.
Micro,Cabosil,wax $1.
-----------------------------------------
$ 103.06


BAGGING SUPPLLIES: fresh tubular nylon bag for each wing/tail vacuum
(these could be reused several
times if time is no issue) 11m total $13.20


gloves,brushes, plastic foil,paper towels $ 6.
(no peel ply used)


I believe that 125 us dollars would buy you all the materials necessary
for a top notch model.
The single most expensive item is the carbon for the wing skin.

The option with IMS carbon wing skin would probably cost another
40 dollars.(available thru EMC-VEGA)

The UMS tow in the spar caps and usually the propeller isn't really
all that bad.
I know of people buying TORAY M46J @ 50 bucks a pound where the UMS
from Carbon- Vertrieb
costs about 40 Euros per quarter pound.(M46J is roughly equivalent
to UMS(Sigrafil) from CArbon-Vertrieb).
I don't really understand the pricing differences between European
and American suppliers,but generally
for most North American Hobby people buying carbon is probably cheapest
thru Carbon-Vertrieb.

Anyway.. I'd be surprised if Surprise and Avionics manufacturers spend
more on materials more than I do.
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Old Oct 11, 2004, 06:11 AM
Registered User
Canada, NS, Lunenburg
Joined Oct 1999
3,863 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by soholingo
By the way, I have asked Andy to split this thread into two threads. Don's original thread should be left alone....
Andy passed this request on...

Having read all the way through this thread, I don't see much point in splitting it or any sensible way to do the split. The original point was thoroughly answered on Page 1 and the discussion moved onto rolling your own which is certainly on topic and relevant.
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Old Oct 11, 2004, 06:22 AM
Tragic case
davidleitch's Avatar
Sydney Australia
Joined Feb 2002
5,864 Posts
In that case let me ask another question.

Who feels competent to actually design an F5B ship and then do a CAD file of same? Understands the moments the airfoils and the strength requirements?
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Old Oct 11, 2004, 07:24 AM
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soholingo's Avatar
Laurel, MD
Joined May 2001
12,675 Posts
There are enough ideas out there that you could probably get reasonably close by using foil software, and some planflorm ideas from aerodesign.de. Also you could find someone to work with you. The thing that impressed me about the f5b skunkworks in San Diego is that there were many people with many diffrent talents, if I remember correctly there were many engineers, one cad expert, one modeling expert/chemist, one motor battery expert, and several experienced people in the F5b fields. I have been fortunate that these men have been available to all of us and seem willing to offer help relatively often...

j
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Old Oct 11, 2004, 11:12 AM
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Germany - Stuttgart
Joined Aug 2004
30 Posts
David's idea is just realized for a pylon racer:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...=270446&page=1

Should be possible also for F5B.
Or we should convince Marcus Koch to show us, how to make molds from a positive, as he promised some month ago:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224592

Juergen
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Old Oct 11, 2004, 07:33 PM
F5B, helis...too much
Fairfax, VA
Joined Mar 2002
370 Posts
Vigor

Jay,

I agree with you, the Victor needs kevlar. The more expensive Vigor DOES come with kevlar and carbon in the fuse.

tufnik
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Old Oct 11, 2004, 09:54 PM
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timmig's Avatar
Southern California
Joined Sep 2003
6,888 Posts
Soo--- what you're saying is there IS NO such thing as an affordable F5B plane unless ya build it yourself!? Sounds about right-- if ya want something done right- ya have to do it yourself!! "
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