|Oct 10, 2004, 05:27 PM|
|Oct 10, 2004, 07:09 PM|
Personally I feel every flyer at some time should build his own plane. I mean a plane of same general construction as they are flying. Only then do they really appreciate what is involved. Myself, been there, done it. And I have no desire to do it again. My free time is too valuable to me.
|Oct 10, 2004, 08:41 PM|
Joined Mar 2002
Ok, getting back to the main subject of the post.
I've been flying the Sirius and the Victor for a couple of years. I too experienced a wing failure (wing snapped in half near center) during a dive with the Sirius, but I think it was a hidden structure weakness that resulted from previous rough landings. Assuming the Sirius structure is sound, I find the Victor to be a much faster plane. Quality is better and parts are available on the Victor. The Victor is considered by the importer to be "competition grade." I think it means it's relatively lightweight. To me, the fuse is quite fragile. A rough landing could easily result in fuse creases and/or surface cracks. Nonetheless, I'm quite pleased with this plane, especially with the price.
The Victor importer, M.A.P. in New York, is about to offer another plane called the Vigor. It is said to be faster than the Victor (which has RG14 airfoil), ideally suited for 16-cells at 200+ amps draws, and able to meet 2005 contest rules. If it's faster than the Victor, I'm all ears. I heard it will be priced between $550-$600.
|Oct 11, 2004, 12:52 AM|
Joined Sep 2004
More on materials..
My 2 cents..
Here is an approximate list of the airframe materials used in my 2002
Verminator 02.(a higher performance model)
The numbers include waste. All materials were purchased retail except for Rohacell.
Prices in California Dollars.
Discount the fact that I purchased 120 Dollars worth of MGS for 2 airplanes.
FUSELAGE: .6m^2 1.8ozKevlar $13.20
.15m^2 .75 oz glass $ .38
IMS carbon tow $ .5
70g mgs epoxy $ 1.68
WING : 40g UMS tow (weissgerber) $ 14.
.8m^2 80g carbon cloth (Weissgerber) $ 32.
300g MGS epoxy(lots ofwaste) $ 7.5
kevlarhinge $ . 5
.7m^2 .75oz glass (inner layer) $ 1.8
3/4 sheet 1.5mm Rohacell(22$ per sheet purchased wholesale) $16.5
Balsa/Carbon Shearwebs,Ribs $6.
STAB Ingredients top secret altogether $4.
Small Stuff Paint(K&B) 40g, Thinner $4.
BAGGING SUPPLLIES: fresh tubular nylon bag for each wing/tail vacuum
(these could be reused several
times if time is no issue) 11m total $13.20
gloves,brushes, plastic foil,paper towels $ 6.
(no peel ply used)
I believe that 125 us dollars would buy you all the materials necessary
for a top notch model.
The single most expensive item is the carbon for the wing skin.
The option with IMS carbon wing skin would probably cost another
40 dollars.(available thru EMC-VEGA)
The UMS tow in the spar caps and usually the propeller isn't really
all that bad.
I know of people buying TORAY M46J @ 50 bucks a pound where the UMS
from Carbon- Vertrieb
costs about 40 Euros per quarter pound.(M46J is roughly equivalent
to UMS(Sigrafil) from CArbon-Vertrieb).
I don't really understand the pricing differences between European
and American suppliers,but generally
for most North American Hobby people buying carbon is probably cheapest
Anyway.. I'd be surprised if Surprise and Avionics manufacturers spend
more on materials more than I do.
|Oct 11, 2004, 06:11 AM|
Canada, NS, Lunenburg
Joined Oct 1999
Having read all the way through this thread, I don't see much point in splitting it or any sensible way to do the split. The original point was thoroughly answered on Page 1 and the discussion moved onto rolling your own which is certainly on topic and relevant.
|Oct 11, 2004, 06:22 AM|
In that case let me ask another question.
Who feels competent to actually design an F5B ship and then do a CAD file of same? Understands the moments the airfoils and the strength requirements?
|Oct 11, 2004, 07:24 AM|
There are enough ideas out there that you could probably get reasonably close by using foil software, and some planflorm ideas from aerodesign.de. Also you could find someone to work with you. The thing that impressed me about the f5b skunkworks in San Diego is that there were many people with many diffrent talents, if I remember correctly there were many engineers, one cad expert, one modeling expert/chemist, one motor battery expert, and several experienced people in the F5b fields. I have been fortunate that these men have been available to all of us and seem willing to offer help relatively often...
|Oct 11, 2004, 11:12 AM|
Germany - Stuttgart
Joined Aug 2004
David's idea is just realized for a pylon racer:
Should be possible also for F5B.
Or we should convince Marcus Koch to show us, how to make molds from a positive, as he promised some month ago:
|Oct 11, 2004, 09:54 PM|
Soo--- what you're saying is there IS NO such thing as an affordable F5B plane unless ya build it yourself!? Sounds about right-- if ya want something done right- ya have to do it yourself!! "
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