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Old Oct 05, 2004, 05:42 PM
Why aren't you out flyin?
colbyweb's Avatar
Overland Park, Kansas, United States
Joined Mar 2004
2,046 Posts
DPF - Agwagon parkflyer build thread

This thread is an offshoot of the DPF – Disposable Park Flyers Thread found here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...9&page=1&pp=15
The purpose of that thread is to promote the use of DPF's (Disposable Park Flyers) and to develop and share DPF designs. One of the designs that came from that thread is the DPF Agwagon which we will be presenting here. This plane has not flown yet, as the prototype is still under construction. I'm going to begin the build thread anyway, since I have the fuselage completed. This plane is a full fuse design using a foam “core” sandwiched between 2 sheets of bluecor or depron. This method constructs a very strong and light weight structure that is both cheap and easy to build. To build this plane as intended you will need a foam cutter. It could be built without one though, using a sheet or 2 of bluecor as the core cut out with an exacto knife. I will show you an easy way to make pockets for all the radio and motor parts so that everything can be concealed inside the fuselage like a normal built up model. Except the servos which we put outside for simplicity but they could be put inside as well. This model has been designed with the beginner in mind, in fact it will be used as a high school class project which I will be leading over the next few weeks. Innovation will be encouraged throughout this build, if you have other ideas, feel free to use them. My own techniques developed over 25 years of working with foam are used in this plan and they are all tried and true methods aimed at beginners. I will be building the prototype with a white “beadboard” foam core but blue or pink foam could be used as well and will be stronger, but heavier. I've built quite a few of these using white foam and it works well and it quite crash resistant. To participate in this project you will need access to some foam block for the core such as white beadboard or blue foam. 1 1/2” thickness is preferred but anything between 1 and 2 inches should suffice. You need Dow Bluecor (fanfold, FFF, etc) for the fuselage skins, wings and empenage. Depron could be substituted here and 3mm depron makes the best fuselage skins with 6mm being best for the other parts. The landing gear uses 3/16” music wire and wheels of your choice. You will also need bamboo skewers. Skewers are available in different thicknesses and I suggest using the thinest ones you can find. In addition you will need a hardwood motor mount stick, paper clips, electrical tape, packing tape, some 1/32” plywood or thin plastic (coffee can lids are great) and some assorted adhesives. For adhesives you will need a spray contact cement such as Elmer's Craft Bond which cn be found at Walmart in the crafts section, low temp hot glue and optrionally polyurethane glue such as Gorilla Glue or Elmer's Ultimate Glue. The model is designed for the GWS 350C motor with C gearing and a 9x7 prop using lipo batteries, and micro radio equipment. The battery compartment should accomidate nicads or nimh's also but I do not have any to test with. Brushless motors can also be used and the prototype will most likely have an AXI 2208/34 as I need new gear parts for my GWS motor. You will also need a small piece of 1/4" plywood for the landing gear mount.
I think I've covered everything we need to get started so the next post will start the build.
-Rick
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Old Oct 05, 2004, 06:29 PM
Why aren't you out flyin?
colbyweb's Avatar
Overland Park, Kansas, United States
Joined Mar 2004
2,046 Posts
Here are the plans. Having said that; while building I have found several things that need to be corrected on these plans. Nevertheless these can be used as is so I am posting them. I would urge you to wait until I change them before you download and print them. I intend to make the changes this evening.
-Rick
The last file listed, Agwagon_parkflyer_Model_ALL.pdf is the tiled version


Edit: Updated plans are posted below in post #10.
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Old Oct 05, 2004, 06:45 PM
Why aren't you out flyin?
colbyweb's Avatar
Overland Park, Kansas, United States
Joined Mar 2004
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First off, you really need some kind of tabletop foam cutter with a vertical hot wire setup like a scroll saw. There are many threads here about how to setup hot wire foam cutters and I do not plan to do a full how on it unless I have to. My tabletop cutter is a small hot wire bow screwed to the side of the work table. It is powered by an automotive battery charger that is plugged into an ordinary household light dimmer switch. The dimmer switch provides adjustable output for the battery charger which is really a must if you want to do precise cutting. You could get by without an adjustable output but it's tough to get the current right without it. Other power sources are old model train controllers (can be bought on ebay for a few dollars), a device called a variac which is expensive and hard to find, and automotive light dimmer switches. I'm sure there are others. It is possible to use ni-cad batteries as a power source and the curent can be adjusted by adding or removing cells. It is also possible to adjust current by varying the length of the cutting wire. This last method works pretty well up to a point and I have used it myself. For cutting wire I have used nichrome, guitar strings, stainless steel MIG welding wire and stainless steel fishing leaders. The stainless steel MIG welding wire really works great and I've never had a piece break. Most welding shops will give you a few feet if you ask them. Stainless steel fishing leader can be had at walmart among other places. All that we need for this project is a short cutting wire (10" or 12" long) stretched accross a bow and mounted vertically in a stationary manner. This cutter will be used as you would use a scroll saw. We will also be making 2 cuts that will require a handheld cutting bow so if your vertical cutter is a bow mounted to the table like mine, you can unscrew it and use that to make the other 2 cuts. We will not be making cut wings on this model so a larg cutting bow is not needed. Here's a couple of pics of my cutting bow, the pics are probably enough to make them from.
-Rick
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Old Oct 05, 2004, 06:50 PM
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Gainesville, Florida, United States
Joined Sep 2001
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"Stainless steel fishing leader can be had at walmart among other places."

FWIW, and not to get your thread off track, the stainless leader from Wal-Mart has worked extremely well for me. Smooth cuts (although my hands aren't steady enough to get it perfectly on the lines), and it lasts for a long time. I've done at least 20 cuts with the same 17" long piece. The trick is to use one that's long enough so it doesn't run too hot. If you run the wire too hot it will burn up and not last. If it's too cold, it will bind in the foam. You ideally want to be able to move the foam at 2-3" a second, and the cut faces will have spider-web-ish strands of melted foam on them.

This Agwagon looks like a neat build. I'm not sure I understand your fuse construction, though - a piece of white foam, with Depron on each side? How thick is the Depron? In my experience with the white foam it's flexible, but crumbly and not too rigid.
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Old Oct 05, 2004, 06:55 PM
Why aren't you out flyin?
colbyweb's Avatar
Overland Park, Kansas, United States
Joined Mar 2004
2,046 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by stjobs
"Stainless steel fishing leader can be had at walmart among other places."

FWIW, and not to get your thread off track, the stainless leader from Wal-Mart has worked extremely well for me. Smooth cuts (although my hands aren't steady enough to get it perfectly on the lines), and it lasts for a long time. I've done at least 20 cuts with the same 17" long piece. The trick is to use one that's long enough so it doesn't run too hot. If you run the wire too hot it will burn up and not last. If it's too cold, it will bind in the foam. You ideally want to be able to move the foam at 2-3" a second, and the cut faces will have spider-web-ish strands of melted foam on them.

This Agwagon looks like a neat build. I'm not sure I understand your fuse construction, though - a piece of white foam, with Depron on each side? How thick is the Depron? In my experience with the white foam it's flexible, but crumbly and not too rigid.
If you use the controller setup like I use you can adjust the current for any size of wire. I have a 12" piece that I use a lot, and I have also had very good luck with it, I just can't get longer pieces locally.
You'll understand the build method much better here shortly, I'm woring on the next post now. You're right about white foam, but it works well as a filler. Also I noted that you may use another type of foam if you wish.
-Rick
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Old Oct 05, 2004, 07:07 PM
Why aren't you out flyin?
colbyweb's Avatar
Overland Park, Kansas, United States
Joined Mar 2004
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Ok, are we ready to get started? First print out the plans. The plans do not include any building instructions, you will need this thread to build it. The plans are just templates for the foam parts. Personally I only cut out one template, then use that template to make the sides which I usually cut out by habd with an exacto knife.
If you would like to save your plans, here's a handy way to transfer them to the template. Use an awl or other sharp pointed object to punch holes through the plans at all the corners and at several points along the curves. You need to put a scrap piece of foam behind the plans when making thse holes. The lay the plans over the template material and using a sharpie pen put a mark inside each hole. Then remove the plans and connect the dots on the template.
For template material I use a card stock that my wife gets for me at work (she is a school teacher). I have no idea where you can buy this stuff from but various other things will work. I have used posterboard from walmart with good success as well as manilla folder material. Any stiff, smooth cardboard will work.
Once the templates are cut out, start with the fuse template that has the lightening holes in it. This will be the template for the fuselage "core". You will need a foam block 35" x 8" or bigger. Lay the template out on the block and tack it down with thumbtacks as shown in the pictures. Then simply cut it out with the vertical foam cutter. You could attach the template with contact cement or pins as well. You will notice in the pics that I decided the lightening holes were not neccessary with the white foam so I left them out. If using blue or pink foam you should cut out the lightening holes.
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Old Oct 05, 2004, 07:14 PM
Why aren't you out flyin?
colbyweb's Avatar
Overland Park, Kansas, United States
Joined Mar 2004
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Next we need to taper the fuselage. It is possible to make a tapered template, attach it to the top or bottom of the fuse and run it through the vertical cutter. This doesn't always work out very well though, it's easy to let the angles get off while cutting so I don't recommend it. What I do is make a mark in the center of the rear part of the fuse core tht wil be used a referrence mark. You need some kind of rails to use as a cutting guide, I have some scrap aluminum channel that I use. I used to use some pieces of angle iron but my wife decided I had a better use for it I have used boards for this, but make sure they are smooth. Lay the block between the rails as shown in the pics, and block up the tail end so that the center mark you made earlier is level with the top of the rails. Then weight down the front end ans shown and using the hand held bow start from the front end and make a cut straight back to the tail. Leave the scrap in place and flip it over and do the same thing. Do not worry if your cuts are not perfect, you can sand them smoother if needed but the fanfold sheeting that goes over it hides most mistakes.
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Old Oct 05, 2004, 07:17 PM
Why aren't you out flyin?
colbyweb's Avatar
Overland Park, Kansas, United States
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I had a picture of the cutting process of the taper but it has disapeared. I think you get the idea from what I posted though.
-Rick
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Old Oct 05, 2004, 07:21 PM
Why aren't you out flyin?
colbyweb's Avatar
Overland Park, Kansas, United States
Joined Mar 2004
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I will not be able to post any more build pics until tomorrow morning because I am out of time but I will be monitoring the thread if anyone has questions. Notice that the fuse core in the above pics has cavities for all of our equipment. We will sheet both sides and then use the core template to mark and cutout the areas for the battery, reciever and servos. The motor stick will slide right into the slot in the nose after glueing some scrap foam to the sides of the stick. The servos will slip right into the servo holes and the wires will run through the channels to the receiver. There are also channels cut for the motor and battery wires. A pocket is also cut out for the landing gear block.
-Rick
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Old Oct 05, 2004, 11:17 PM
Why aren't you out flyin?
colbyweb's Avatar
Overland Park, Kansas, United States
Joined Mar 2004
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Final plans

Ok, these will (hopefully) be the final version of the plans. I'm waiting on Gene Bond to tile them for me, but here are the cad file and full size pdf
-Rick
All of the plans are now in one zipfile. Gene Bond graciously converted the original Autocad 2004 file to a Turbocad compatible version.
The zipfile contains the CAD file, a full size PDF and a tiled PDF. Enjoy1
Last update 10/11-04
.
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Old Oct 05, 2004, 11:22 PM
No time to fly
BrMiHi08's Avatar
USA, MO, Independence
Joined Nov 2003
360 Posts
Not to be mean in any way, but I am not a big fan of your building style, would you happen to have a three view at all? I may try either this or a home design of an agcat mixed with an agwagon.
Thanks,
Brian
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Old Oct 05, 2004, 11:25 PM
Why aren't you out flyin?
colbyweb's Avatar
Overland Park, Kansas, United States
Joined Mar 2004
2,046 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrMiHi08
Not to be mean in any way, but I am not a big fan of your building style, would you happen to have a three view at all? I may try either this or a home design of an agcat mixed with an agwagon.
Thanks,
Brian
Sorry, I couldn't find any 3 views. I hunted through google for pics and worked from them.
-Rick
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Old Oct 05, 2004, 11:44 PM
I crash, therefore I FLY!
mad mike's Avatar
Spring Hill, FL
Joined Feb 2003
1,489 Posts
Well now. I had no problem opening the Agwagon_2000_compat file, but was unable to open the other cad files with Turbo Cad LE, or with Tile Print.

What is different about *that* file that lets me open it with Turbo Cad? Any chance the latest version could be posted, in the same format as the 2000_compat file?

I could just wait for Gene to tile the pdf version, but I like cad files (that can be opened with Turbo Cad LE,) because I can also use Tile Print with them. Once built and flown, then I have the option of using Tile Print to make an enlarged version if I want to.

I was able to open the newest version in the pdf format, but of course, can't print it on my rather standard printer. I moved it to Tile Print, but the resolution isn't very good when done that way.

Mike S.
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Old Oct 06, 2004, 12:16 AM
Why aren't you out flyin?
colbyweb's Avatar
Overland Park, Kansas, United States
Joined Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mad mike
Well now. I had no problem opening the Agwagon_2000_compat file, but was unable to open the other cad files with Turbo Cad LE, or with Tile Print.

What is different about *that* file that lets me open it with Turbo Cad? Any chance the latest version could be posted, in the same format as the 2000_compat file?

I could just wait for Gene to tile the pdf version, but I like cad files (that can be opened with Turbo Cad LE,) because I can also use Tile Print with them. Once built and flown, then I have the option of using Tile Print to make an enlarged version if I want to.

I was able to open the newest version in the pdf format, but of course, can't print it on my rather standard printer. I moved it to Tile Print, but the resolution isn't very good when done that way.

Mike S.
Sorry Mike, I'm really having trouble with the compatiblity issues. I have Turbocad LE as well and so far I have not been able to save it in a format that TCLE will open. I was able to copy and paste it into turbocad le but the scale doesn't come out right. I'm still working on it, as soon as I get it I'l be happy to share with you.
-Rick
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Old Oct 06, 2004, 12:29 AM
Why aren't you out flyin?
colbyweb's Avatar
Overland Park, Kansas, United States
Joined Mar 2004
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Try this Mike, I pasted into turbocad and resized it until things measured correctly. So this is a native turbocad file.
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