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Old Sep 29, 2004, 11:34 AM
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Vicksburg, MI
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RC Vectron Flying Saucer

Does anybody think that it would be possible to make an RC version of the Vectron flying saucer? I think you could have 4 propellers that would all counter-rotate, thus canceling out the torque effect. The rear props would increase thrust a little for the craft to go forward, and the front thrust would increase for it to go backwards. Same thing for left and right flight, except side and side instead of front and back. And of course all would increase or decrease to go up and down. You would also have a gyro on aileron control and one on elevator for stability. So, what does averybody think?


-Daniel
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Old Sep 29, 2004, 11:38 AM
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Troms, Norway
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It's possible and I think gyros are necessary for it to be controllable! Three motors can be used if it has an onboard CCPM-mixer. It will require two gyros (roll and pitch) to be controllable and this is why the CCPM-mixer has to be onboard and not in the radio. It's easier with four rotors as a mixer isn't necessary except for yaw where a V-tail mixer might work.
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Old Sep 29, 2004, 12:01 PM
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Howzabout the Draganflyer.....

h**p://www.rctoys.com/draganflyer3.php

h**p://www.rctoys.com/draganflyerxpro.php
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Old Sep 29, 2004, 12:21 PM
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Thanks!

Lynxman, I should have thought of that.
I am fairly new to helicopters, so please help me here.
By what you said, here's how I understand it:
I could have 3 motors, in which each would be like a servo on
a 120 degree CCPM heli, mixed in the transmitter. Am I correct so far?
I can't figure out how the gyros fit in the picture, so I need some help here.
I will keep thinking and post again soon.


-Daniel
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Old Sep 29, 2004, 12:27 PM
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That's why you need a mixer onboard the heli instead of in the transmitter.That way you can connect the gyro's between the receiver and mixer, and the mixer to the three ESC's.
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Old Sep 29, 2004, 12:39 PM
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Yes as Sim-O has said the Draganflyer is an r/c platform with four individually controlled rotors, multiple gyros and a complex electronic mixing system to keep it fairly stable. Its v.pricey though but has a bit of a cult following.

The vectron operates completely differently. Rather than mounting the rotors on stationary arms they actually spin around the Vectrons hub. The rotors individually spin in the same direction causing the whole unit to turn at high speed in the opposite direction from the torque reaction. With the whole unit spinning there is gyroscopic stability and the rotors are in effect providing a full 360degree disk of thrust. Of course each rotor is never in the same position for more than a microsecond so to control cyclic there is an infra-red link to the users controller. This gives the vectron positional information so that it knows which way is forward/backwards/side to side from the users point of view.
This infra-red link has to be maintained or the vectron is uncontrollable.
Incidentally in the pic above the vectron is shown with lettering on its outer foam "tyre". This is actually 9 vertically mounted LED's - but when spinning they can be programmed to flash at the correct rate to form letters....its very effective and overall a fun toy. Cyclic is just like a heli cyclic.

So what I am saying is - what you are describing is something like the Draganflyer with stationary arms and complex gyro stabilisation. The vectron could be done with R/C I suppose although power/weight ratio is obviously a problem (it'd have to be much larger I suspect) and you would also need to maintain the infra-red link - which would be impossible over possible radio control distances.

Incidentally there is an r/c vectron but it operates differently with just one main rotor and a 1channel throttle control - like an airhogs heli I suppose. I've seen it stationary hovering and it is surprisingly stable but I can imagine the novelty wearing off very quickly .....hmmm it hovers when I press this trigger and......erm!!!!
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Old Sep 29, 2004, 12:50 PM
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Huh?

I get it now.
What I was thinking of was having something that looks like the vectron
but acts like the dragonfly or heli, either with 3 or 4 propellers. It would be contained within a ring and would not rotate or spin. Now, is this possible?



-Daniel
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Old Sep 29, 2004, 01:02 PM
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I think that 4 props are used so that you can cancel out torque. 2 blades spin clockwise, 2 spin counterclockwise. Yaw control is handled by speeding up one set and slowing down the other set.
The math to do all of this mixing is rather simple, but I am sure that getting apporpriate values for the constants would be a lot of work.
It would have to be a fairly big vectron, since the diameter of each of the 4 rotors would be rather large.
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Old Sep 29, 2004, 01:15 PM
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I was thinking maybe 18" diameter


-Daniel
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Old Sep 29, 2004, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel11
I get it now.
What I was thinking of was having something that looks like the vectron
but acts like the dragonfly or heli, either with 3 or 4 propellers. It would be contained within a ring and would not rotate or spin. Now, is this possible?



-Daniel
Yes.

DIY, no!!

The draganflyer's high price is partly due to the complex stabilisation system. There are 3 (count 'em) gyro's for roll & attitude aswell as yaw and without them it flips over in a nanosecond - its uncontrollable apparently. Theres also mixing of the 4 rotors and 4 lots of speed controllering (if thats a word) going on. So the electronics bit would be a bit tricky and not quite as simple as it first appears. It would seem that constant and instant adjustment and monitoring is required to keep it even remotely stable.

This is why the Vectron and Snelflight Hoverfly spin the rotor arms to provide what is effectively a regular helicopter rotor with 360 degree lift and therefore some form of inherent stability or at least a level of stability which is controllable by us human beings.

You could buy a draganflyer and then stick a foam disk around it.
The X-Pro (about $5000) can lift a bit of weight.
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Old Sep 29, 2004, 01:58 PM
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Going to move this to Multi rotor helis.

FB
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Old Sep 29, 2004, 03:34 PM
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Here is a DIY DraganFlyer thread from the other forum:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Buil...1487065/tm.htm
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Old Sep 29, 2004, 04:09 PM
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Vicksburg, MI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwok_Yu
Here is a DIY DraganFlyer thread from the other forum:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Buil...1487065/tm.htm

I don't have time to read the whole thing, but in the end, did his flying saucer actually fly?


-Daniel
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Old Sep 29, 2004, 04:56 PM
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The post is from someone who wants to know how to set up the mixing. This thread seems to have been going on forever. I read through it early on, but there is probably much more now. Don't know if he got it to work. But the expert that gives alot of info is "Spaceclam". Believe it or not he's real young, maybe only 14yrs old. Apparently he built one for a science project and he said's it flys.
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Old Oct 16, 2004, 06:54 AM
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There is a 4 rotor sauccer comming out this or next months. I will post some details when I get them, but the price is arround 100 euros. RC, nimh and optional lipo.
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