Hello all,
With winter just about upon us, and the horrendous increases in both
gas and electricity that have just taken place, thoughts must now turn
to the best way of heat a workshop?
Mine will be a converted garage 17'x10' suitably insulated of course.
Would appreciate suggestions.
Regards
GeoffH
Norfolk - UK not VA

In article <l5pok0d32jpjs4cv4mb4k4i4imv9q3l3fo@4ax.com>,
GeoffH <halgatenospam@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hello all,
> With winter just about upon us, and the horrendous increases in both
> gas and electricity that have just taken place, thoughts must now turn
> to the best way of heat a workshop?
> Mine will be a converted garage 17'x10' suitably insulated of course.
> Would appreciate suggestions.
> Regards
> GeoffH
> Norfolk - UK not VA
Question. Do you want to heat for comfort or to prevent condensation and
rusting?

For comfort I have a small fan heater which I turn on sometimes if I am
feeling the cold but not often. Cost, not much.

To prevent condensation I use a dehumidifier. A subject much discussed on
this newsgroup and I have had no problem with rusting. Touch wood.
Spraying everything with a mixture of 2stroke oil and a little paraffin
can help.

Living as I do in the Outer Hebrides corrosion from the salt laden
atmosphere is a fact of life but my workshop, cavity blockwork, no
insulation presents no problem given the above.

One thing that you should make sure of is that you have sufficient
ventilation. Insulation without sufficient ventilation will cause you
problems.

The fan heater I use is not the most efficient way (in terms of cost) of
heating. If you yourself are cold in the workshop you could consider a
directional radiant heater. A good wool jumper and a boiler suit would be
a cheaper solution in the long term.

Hope this helps.

Donald, South Uist

Geoff,

One of my workshops is about 20' x 10' and is fully insulated (walls and
ceiling). I find heating is not a problem at all, I have six 5' fluorescent
lights plus the machine lamps and I find they are enough to heat the room.
On really cold days I use a fan heater for perhaps 20 minutes and after that
the lighting is enough to keep it warm.

My problem tends to be the other way round, I need to use air conditioners
during the summer to keep the place cool enough - or I have to switch the
lights off and work in the dark .

Mark

Essex - UK


"GeoffH" <halgatenospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:l5pok0d32jpjs4cv4mb4k4i4imv9q3l3fo@4ax.com...
> Hello all,
> With winter just about upon us, and the horrendous increases in both
> gas and electricity that have just taken place, thoughts must now turn
> to the best way of heat a workshop?
> Mine will be a converted garage 17'x10' suitably insulated of course.
> Would appreciate suggestions.
> Regards
> GeoffH
> Norfolk - UK not VA

GeoffH wrote:
> Hello all,
> With winter just about upon us, and the horrendous increases in both
> gas and electricity that have just taken place, thoughts must now turn
> to the best way of heat a workshop?
> Mine will be a converted garage 17'x10' suitably insulated of course.
> Would appreciate suggestions.
> Regards
> GeoffH
> Norfolk - UK not VA


If it is condensation, a 60w bulb in the cabinet of each machine can
warm the machine up just enough to keep them dry... I have a diesel
stove in my workshop, but with the possible ending of red diesel, I may
have to fit a wood burner instead. Just watch the use of any
flammables, plus having a stove fitted means the workshop is ventilated
via the stove flue. I also have a dehumidifier, and am always amazed by
how much it collects, they too put out a few watts of heat. Mine is on
a time switch, 4hrs on, 4hrs off.


Joules

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 09:44:08 GMT, Joules <jenesisjoules@tesco.net> wrote:

>GeoffH wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> With winter just about upon us, and the horrendous increases in both
>> gas and electricity that have just taken place, thoughts must now turn
>> to the best way of heat a workshop?
>> Mine will be a converted garage 17'x10' suitably insulated of course.
>> Would appreciate suggestions.
>> Regards
>> GeoffH
>> Norfolk - UK not VA
>
>
>If it is condensation, a 60w bulb in the cabinet of each machine can
>warm the machine up just enough to keep them dry... I have a diesel
>stove in my workshop, but with the possible ending of red diesel, I may
>have to fit a wood burner instead. Just watch the use of any
>flammables, plus having a stove fitted means the workshop is ventilated
>via the stove flue. I also have a dehumidifier, and am always amazed by
>how much it collects, they too put out a few watts of heat. Mine is on
>a time switch, 4hrs on, 4hrs off.
>
>
> Joules

Red diesel ending??
That's the same stuff as household heating oil, what will happen to those
people needing that?

I have a wood burner in my shop, it was originally designed for burning
sawdust but because of supply problems [ farmers grabbing it all ] I now
burn beech offcuts which a local factory deliver to me to save them having
to pay skip costs.

It's done me a favour in a way as it's less mess/ dust and free delivery is
a plus.

--
Regards,

John Stevenson
Nottingham, England.

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:44:47 +0100, Donald <scolmor@freeuk.com> wrote:

Hello Donald,

>Question. Do you want to heat for comfort or to prevent condensation and
>rusting?
Both really.

>For comfort I have a small fan heater which I turn on sometimes if I am
>feeling the cold but not often. Cost, not much.
Wasn't sure of the cost of using these, but taking heart from your
comments.

>To prevent condensation I use a dehumidifier.
Any particular type/model to look for?

>Spraying everything with a mixture of 2stroke oil and a little paraffin
>can help.
I've resorted to praying with chain wax while things are in storage
before use.

>Living as I do in the Outer Hebrides corrosion from the salt laden
>atmosphere is a fact of life but my workshop, cavity blockwork, no
>insulation presents no problem given the above.
Ouch.
Cannot think of a more unfriendly environment.
Interesting that you don't need insulation.
Must be something to do with the construction of your workshop.

>One thing that you should make sure of is that you have sufficient
>ventilation. Insulation without sufficient ventilation will cause you
>problems.
Good point.
I have read about ventilation but no mention how one achieves this.
I assume cross ventilation is needed, but where would you place them,
and what type of ventilation holes to use.

>The fan heater I use is not the most efficient way (in terms of cost) of
>heating. If you yourself are cold in the workshop you could consider a
>directional radiant heater. A good wool jumper and a boiler suit would be
>a cheaper solution in the long term.
Good suggestions.
I sure would not like to work in T-shirt only in winter :-)

>Hope this helps.
Yes indeed.
Thanks
GeoffH

Forgot to mention in my earlier post that i have seen some decent heaters
burning wood or oil made out of 3 or 4 lorry wheel rims welded up into a
heavy drum.
--
Regards,

John Stevenson
Nottingham, England.

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 20:14:46 +0100, "Mark Howard"
<howard10@clara.co.uk> wrote:

>One of my workshops is about 20' x 10' and is fully insulated (walls and
>ceiling).
This is what I will doing to my garage.

>I find heating is not a problem at all, I have six 5' fluorescent
>lights plus the machine lamps and I find they are enough to heat the room.
Would not have thought these would give out so much heat.
Very interesting indeed.

>On really cold days I use a fan heater for perhaps 20 minutes and after that
>the lighting is enough to keep it warm.
No this is what I wanted to hear.
Self heating :-)

>My problem tends to be the other way round, I need to use air conditioners
>during the summer to keep the place cool enough - or I have to switch the
>lights off and work in the dark .
What summer/s !
Sorry but could not resist this :-)
After 20 years in the UK I can only remember 1 hot one, and that was
last year. Marvelous.
What type of air conditioners do you use?
I was thinking of using those heating wires where necessary.
Thanks for your reply.
GeoffH

John Stevenson wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 09:44:08 GMT, Joules <jenesisjoules@tesco.net> wrote:
>
>
>>GeoffH wrote:
>>
>>>Hello all,
>>>With winter just about upon us, and the horrendous increases in both
>>>gas and electricity that have just taken place, thoughts must now turn
>>>to the best way of heat a workshop?
>>>Mine will be a converted garage 17'x10' suitably insulated of course.
>>>Would appreciate suggestions.
>>>Regards
>>>GeoffH
>>>Norfolk - UK not VA
>>
>>
>>If it is condensation, a 60w bulb in the cabinet of each machine can
>>warm the machine up just enough to keep them dry... I have a diesel
>>stove in my workshop, but with the possible ending of red diesel, I may
>>have to fit a wood burner instead. Just watch the use of any
>>flammables, plus having a stove fitted means the workshop is ventilated
>>via the stove flue. I also have a dehumidifier, and am always amazed by
>>how much it collects, they too put out a few watts of heat. Mine is on
>>a time switch, 4hrs on, 4hrs off.
>>
>>
>> Joules
>
>
> Red diesel ending??
> That's the same stuff as household heating oil, what will happen to those
> people needing that?
>
> I have a wood burner in my shop, it was originally designed for burning
> sawdust but because of supply problems [ farmers grabbing it all ] I now
> burn beech offcuts which a local factory deliver to me to save them having
> to pay skip costs.
>
> It's done me a favour in a way as it's less mess/ dust and free delivery is
> a plus.
>
> --
> Regards,
>
> John Stevenson
> Nottingham, England.

Yeah, the goverment in their wisedom, seem to think it is too much of a
good thing for people to have a low tax fuel... Much mention of it
finishing...in line with greener polices!!! I think the planning is
something like... look we can tax the bar***ds some more, and blame it
on global warming...

Joules 8-(

On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:18:43 GMT, Joules <jenesisjoules@tesco.net>
wrote:


>
>Yeah, the goverment in their wisedom, seem to think it is too much of a
>good thing for people to have a low tax fuel... Much mention of it
>finishing...in line with greener polices!!! I think the planning is
>something like... look we can tax the bar***ds some more, and blame it
>on global warming...
>
> Joules 8-(

I *don't* know the precise details of what may be planned, but I
thought it was more likely that red diesel would continue but the
categories of those allowed to use it would be reduced (eg pleasure
boaters)

This has more to do with coming into line with most other eu countries
than anything else, though no doubt the gov won't turn up their noses
at any extra revenue produced.

Cheers
Tim

In article <jmlqk09h1er8uorupjjvkmsipnhqh0kemc@4ax.com>,
GeoffH <halgatenospam@hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 19:44:47 +0100, Donald <scolmor@freeuk.com> wrote:

> Hello Donald,

> >Question. Do you want to heat for comfort or to prevent condensation and
> >rusting?
> Both really.

> >For comfort I have a small fan heater which I turn on sometimes if I am
> >feeling the cold but not often. Cost, not much.
> Wasn't sure of the cost of using these, but taking heart from your
> commen
> >To prevent condensation I use a dehumidifier.
> Any particular type/model to look for?
A cheap domestic model from the likes of Screwfix or B&Q
> >Spraying everything with a mixture of 2stroke oil and a little paraffin
> >can help.
> I've resorted to praying with chain wax while things are in storage
> before use.

> >Living as I do in the Outer Hebrides corrosion from the salt laden
> >atmosphere is a fact of life but my workshop, cavity blockwork, no
> >insulation presents no problem given the above.

Fully insulating your garage will be expensive and unless you are going to
spend most of your time in there you are unlikely to ever recover even a
relatively small percentage of the cost in terms of money saved in heating
bills.
Condensation will occur when an object such as your lath or other tools
has a temperature below that of the dew point of the air in your workshop.
Warm air holds a lot of moisture vapour whereas cold air holds very little
reducing to next to nothing at freezing temperatures. If you put a piece
of cheese in your fridge without an impermeable it will dry out into an
inedible block.
A low wattage bulb. close to and shining on your machinery, as suggested
by someone earlier is a good and cheap solution which may well do away
with any need for a dehumidifier. Real workshops don't have them.
One thing that real workshops did have was plenty of airspace and
ventilation.
There is, or used to be, a good informative British Standard on the
subject of ventilation. Try your library. Failing that you could ring up
the Building Research Establishment who, if they haven't been privatized
or done away with have, or did have, free digests which explain things in
fairly simple language.

Donald, South Uist

Tim Leech wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:18:43 GMT, Joules <jenesisjoules@tesco.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Yeah, the goverment in their wisedom, seem to think it is too much of a
>>good thing for people to have a low tax fuel... Much mention of it
>>finishing...in line with greener polices!!! I think the planning is
>>something like... look we can tax the bar***ds some more, and blame it
>>on global warming...
>>
>> Joules 8-(
>
>
> I *don't* know the precise details of what may be planned, but I
> thought it was more likely that red diesel would continue but the
> categories of those allowed to use it would be reduced (eg pleasure
> boaters)
>
> This has more to do with coming into line with most other eu countries
> than anything else, though no doubt the gov won't turn up their noses
> at any extra revenue produced.
>
> Cheers
> Tim
>
>

Point taken Tim, it was the boating circle's that had the rumours flying...

Joules

Geoff,

IIRC 5' fluorescents are about 60 or 65 watts each, so six of them push out
about 350 watts or there abouts - It doesn't sound a lot but when you add
another 200 - 300 watts with machine lamps etc. and you have the equivalent
of a small (albeit very small heater).

I use a couple of air conditioners I got from B&Q (they were about £180 each
I think) and overall, cost a lot more to run than the winter heating! The
problem is that the workshop is south facing and even with the insulation
and blinds it heats up to a few degrees below the outside ambient
temperature throughout the day. Add the few hundred watts of lighting and
the temperature creeps up above the outside ambient - with no shade this
often exceeds 30 degrees, which is a bit warm for working! (or it is when
you've been acclimatised to our summers!)

Regards

Mark


"GeoffH" <halgatenospam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:66mqk0thuru4htjc448jj7sddd5ivg9qs7@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 20:14:46 +0100, "Mark Howard"
> <howard10@clara.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >One of my workshops is about 20' x 10' and is fully insulated (walls and
> >ceiling).
> This is what I will doing to my garage.
>
> >I find heating is not a problem at all, I have six 5' fluorescent
> >lights plus the machine lamps and I find they are enough to heat the
room.
> Would not have thought these would give out so much heat.
> Very interesting indeed.
>
> >On really cold days I use a fan heater for perhaps 20 minutes and after
that
> >the lighting is enough to keep it warm.
> No this is what I wanted to hear.
> Self heating :-)
>
> >My problem tends to be the other way round, I need to use air
conditioners
> >during the summer to keep the place cool enough - or I have to switch
the
> >lights off and work in the dark .
> What summer/s !
> Sorry but could not resist this :-)
> After 20 years in the UK I can only remember 1 hot one, and that was
> last year. Marvelous.
> What type of air conditioners do you use?
> I was thinking of using those heating wires where necessary.
> Thanks for your reply.
> GeoffH

Interesting postings !
We shouldn't forget one source of water vapour in the workshop is
ourselves. A human normally exhales through the lungs around 300ml of
water per day. More significantly, we lose between 1 and 1.7 litres
per day through perspiration depending on the degree of activity. So
spending around 7 hours per day in a smallish workshop, would release
about 1.5 litres of water into the workshop atmosphere. That
condensing on cold metal surfaces is enough to cause corrosion even
without the contribution from water vapour in the "outside" air.
Personally though I've always assumed flatulence is the major source
of corrosive vapours.