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Old Oct 16, 2004, 08:20 AM
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Bishopville S.C.
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Sounds like the epoxy set before you got the clamps on. Try adding a thin layer in the gap and hold it by hand. A few books or a pillow can be used to hold on side up. Let the other side rest on a table. Three degrees right when viewed from the rear.

Do you have a shim in the gap? If not, you may wind up with a lot of dihedreal. Put the front rods in the joiner and hold them in front of the wing. This is the correct amount of dihedral.
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Old Oct 16, 2004, 10:05 AM
AMF
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Chandler Williams, Arizona, United States
Joined Oct 2004
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Well Ron, like everything I've done up to this point, this step was also wrong. Early this morning I mixed up another batch of epoxy and put the wing back together. I first used alcohol and made sure everything was clean. This time it appears to have held together. But like I said, everything I do is wrong. I put the front rods in the joiner and held them in front of the wing and sure enough, my wing tips are higher than where the rods lay. So now I have alot of dihedreal. So what's that going to screw up?

I also have to fabricate another thrust mod insert because I built mine just the opposite of course. This is no big deal since I actually like making it.

I have messed up every step of the way (Murphy's law I guess). I've screwed up so bad that this is actually my second kit. Between the two kits I might actually create one plane that flies. My $35 plane cost me $70!

Well back out to the shop and see what else I can mess up.

Thanks for you help!
Tony
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Old Oct 16, 2004, 10:58 AM
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Princeton NJ
Joined Dec 2003
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As for the dihedral, dont sweat that. With the rods taped on and the wing rubberbanded to the plane it'd have to be wayyy out of whack to make a noticeable difference in the finished product. Besides, extra dihedral will make it more stable. Its less dihedral will make it tougher to fly.
The glue in the center joint - from an engineering perspective - is only to solidify the center rib. There is no force trying to open up the joint, the wings lift is pinching it shut. However, the wings strength is partly because of its curved shape. Ex: A flat piece of paper has no strength in bending, but curve the paper or roll it into a tube and its quite stiff. When you stress the wing to the point of failure, the squishy foam center rib stretches and allows the airfoil to flatten - like the sheet of paper.

BTW, the tape across the top? its useless to prevent wing folding. Tape works well in tension, but is useless in compression. It DOES help quite a bit in shear though, for those off-center mailbox strikes.

And the wood plug- couldnt you reverse it (front to back) to get it correct?
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Old Oct 16, 2004, 01:54 PM
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Chandler Williams, Arizona, United States
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Thanks Vanning for your comments. I believe I undestand a lot more now. The difference between the rods and the wing is not much and after I tape rods to the wing it will have a little force pulling it back down so in the long run it's probably pretty close.

As far as flipping the thrust mod plug goes, you can't really do that because one end is about 5/16 OD (the one entering the fuselage) and the other is about 3/8 OD that the motor mounts over. So if I flip it, it will be sloppy on the motor side. It only took me about 1/2 hour to make and probaly only about 15 minutes the second time.

I just finished soldering all the Deans connectors to the ESC and motor. At least this went very well. Next I'll be attaching the rods to the wing and finally mounting all the electronics as well as the battery tray I made.

After this, the manual says:

"After the balance point is determined, you are then able to connect the push pull rod to the servo.".

What do they mean by the "balance point"? And what do you balance against and for what purpose? This manual is very, very vague for us first time builders.

Thanks,
Tony
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Old Oct 16, 2004, 01:59 PM
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Chandler Williams, Arizona, United States
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Vanning, you're right. I can just turn the plug 180 degrees and now I have down/right thrust. I was thinking I had to flip it around. See how nieve I am?

Thanks,
Tony
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Old Oct 16, 2004, 04:05 PM
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Eugene, Oregon, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AMF
Vanning, you're right. I can just turn the plug 180 degrees and now I have down/right thrust. I was thinking I had to flip it around. See how nieve I am?

Thanks,
Tony
Tony,
Did we clear up the down and right??? It's looking toward the front of the plane from the rear.
boomer
www.boomerseflight.com
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Old Oct 16, 2004, 05:06 PM
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Chandler Williams, Arizona, United States
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Yes Boomer I did clear up the right/down. Since I hadn't drilled any holes all I had to do was rotate the plug so the down/right was looking from the rear.

I have everything on the fuselage assembled (motor/prop, speed controller, receiver, servos, upgraded LG and wheels and the battery mount loosely fitted) as well as the control horns in the rudder and elevator. The directions are now telling me that I am ready to attach the push pull rod to the servo, but ONLY after the balance point is determined. But I don't know what they mean by the "balance point". I don't know what it is, where it is, or what it has to do with anything. Any idea what they are talking about?

Thanks,
Tony
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Old Oct 16, 2004, 05:48 PM
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They mean the center of gravity. Make a mark 4-1/8" from the front of the wing. Mark it on the bottom of the wing so it is clearly visible. It gets checked often. Then put the wing on and try to balance the plane on this mark. Doing it without the battery on will make things easier, and you can use any pack you want then.
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Old Oct 16, 2004, 06:25 PM
AMF
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Chandler Williams, Arizona, United States
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Thanks Ron,

I don't know why they give me this instruction which is like two pages before they even talk about mounting the wing or talk about the the 4 1/8" measurement. I have the 400 which they say is about 3 3/4 inches for the starting point of the CG.

So basically I should just install all the electronics in the most convenient way I can. Then mount the wing and adjust everything so that I can balance on the CG I marked on the wing. Makes sense and is much easier than this manual.

Thanks again as usual,
Tony
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Old Oct 16, 2004, 06:44 PM
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Even with the 400 I keep mine at 4-1/8. It is easy to shift the pack up or back when needed. The added nose weight is supposed to counter the up thrust, which you have already done.
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Old Oct 16, 2004, 07:17 PM
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Here is a photo with a 400 that may help. The wing is 5-3/4 from the tip of the fuse. Two marks can just be seen on the wing One is 4-1/8" one 3-3/4". The yellow thing is the ESC, the switch is right in front of the wing. Rx is tucked between the servos, and held in with a zip tie. The battery holder had a piece of velcro covered foam glued on. This was later changed to a sawed off yardsick. Plenty of room to move the pack around.
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Old Oct 16, 2004, 07:22 PM
AMF
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Chandler Williams, Arizona, United States
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Thanks for the tip and pic Ron a big help. Now I'll return to the shop and finish her up. I think I've got things under control now thanks to everyone here.

Thanks again,
Tony
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Old Oct 16, 2004, 08:23 PM
Been There! Done That!
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Eugene, Oregon, United States
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4-1/8" no matter what motor you are using.
boomer
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Old Oct 17, 2004, 12:45 AM
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Chandler Williams, Arizona, United States
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Right as usual Boomer. I completed the entire assembly, stuck the battery to the battery tray, marked 4 1/8" under the wing on both sides and attached the wing. Then I held the two CG dots and the plane balanced perfectly. I didn't even have to adjust anything!

The only thing I didn't due was cut the servo rods simply because I would hate to make a mistake at this point (no hobby stores open on Sunday). But tomorrow a guy is going to setup a buddy box and teach me how to fly the thing and he'll know how to cut and bend these rods so I'll do it at that time.

Before I head out tomorrow I'll take the before picture because I'm not sure what the after will look like. The only modification I didn't do was the tail LG enforcement as recommended by Boomer. I can see this is something that I must do. But I believe everything else I have done. Still though, the epoxy in the center of the wing failed again so I taped it. Not sure why the epoxy won't hold here as it was still very wet when I attached the two sides.

Thanks for everything guys and I'll let you know what happens.

Later,
Tony
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Old Oct 17, 2004, 02:21 AM
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Carlsbad, CA
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Good Luck tomorrow. I soloed Friday night. I did have one training flight with Mike at Sureflight a week ago which helped tremedously. He got it trimmed for level flight and suggested I reduce the control surface throw by using the inner servo arm hole. Also to move the ESC further away from the Rx since the plane had a few hits - spaz attacks.

But last Friday I went to this field near the beach with no one around and flew the thing like I knew what I was doing. Burned one pack just doing figure 8's with a smooth full stall landing. The next pack I burned just taking off, going around the pattern and landing - maybe 10 times, had a couple of nose overs in the weeds but walked away from all of them ...

Based on my luck so far you should do fine. I noticed I could limit my over controlling by blipping the rudder or elevator vice trying to move the stick around at first. After a while I got better with the stick but I'm just a beginner.

Ray
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