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Old Aug 31, 2004, 07:59 PM
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Laguna Hills, CA
Joined Aug 2004
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Need Help Converting Sig Senior Kadet to Electric

I need help in choosing a brushless engine and lithium-poli batteries for my Sig Senior Kadet trainer. It weighs about 6.5 pounds & would probably fall under 60 category size.
Thanks,
Bob
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Old Sep 01, 2004, 03:24 AM
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vintage1's Avatar
East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
29,689 Posts
You probably need advice from your bank manager, more than this forum

Here are some links that may help
http://www.maxcim.com/technical.html
http://www.modelairtech.com/combos.html
http://www.modelmotors.cz/index.php?id=en&nc=produkty_vypis&kategorie=m_neod ym_ac&id_rady=axi_41&id_produktu=axi_4130_20&nazev _rady=Series%20AXI%2041&hmotnost_rady=(320%20-%20409%20g)
http://www.astroflight.com/e/env/000...oducts:af-691s
http://www.aveox.com
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Old Sep 01, 2004, 07:29 AM
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Gene Bond's Avatar
Indianapolis, IN
Joined Sep 2001
16,632 Posts
I'd sure like to hear how a Kadet Senior would do on the proven Endo/GD600, 3.8:1/12x8/8xGP3300 would do. As I recall, DeanInMilwaukee's Big-T is 8lbs and does well...

I keep thinking of trying this setup on another big plane, since it does so well (with just a 11x7 prop) on my 4lb Golberg Skylane... Either a Kadet Sr or a Telemaster...
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Old Sep 01, 2004, 12:53 PM
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East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
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I think you are pushing your luck on 300W on an 8lb model.

It all depends tho, can be done if it is slow enough.
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Old Sep 01, 2004, 03:03 PM
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Weatherford, Tx.
Joined Oct 2003
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There is a guy in the electric talk forum that flew his on only 28watts/lb. ! Seriously, I have one and it flys great on as little as a .25 glow, so I would think the Endo/GD600 would be perfect on 8 4/5 FAUP 1800 cells, 10 tooth pinion, and a 12x8 prop. Motocalc shows 31 amps and a static pitch speed of 50mph, with 45 ounces of static thrust. You should be able to fly around at half throttle and still just be above stall speed.
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Old Sep 02, 2004, 12:31 AM
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East Anglia, UK
Joined Sep 2002
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I think the real issue is what 'flies great' means

I totaly agree a decent low wing loading plane on an efficient motor can bumble around on less than 40W/lb - done it myself - but the difference to going to - say - 80W/lb is the difference between a slow steady climb and a 35-40 degree sort of climb.

I asumed the OP wanted .60 type power....if he is content with .25 type power the costs come TUMBLING down.

Although I would still be more into AXI than Endo territory personally
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Old Sep 02, 2004, 12:26 PM
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United States, WA, Snohomish
Joined Sep 2003
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How would a Speed 700 motor with a 2/1 belt drive using 12 - 14 cells do in the Kadet Senior?
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Old Sep 02, 2004, 03:06 PM
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East Anglia, UK
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Probably close to an endo. About 300W I'd guess. Maybe more. Worth a try if you have one.
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Old Sep 02, 2004, 03:39 PM
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United States, MA, Webster
Joined Feb 2003
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Bobandfrances:

This is a high dollar way to do it, but it certainly seems to work really well!

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=241985

If you go to:

www.espritmodel.com

There is a video of the airplane taking off from the grass! It's dated 7/31/04.

If you e-mail him, he will suggest the right size BL motor (probably an AXI) and the Lipo packs (most likely Thunder Power) that would work the best for YOUR application (no floats, no flying off the grass on floats, no glider on top ( holy moley Batman l)) .

Keep in mind that the combination of series connected LiPo packs will give you different pack voltages than NiCd's or NiMh's, ie: 7.4 v compared to 8.4, 11.1 v vs. 9.6 or 12.6 etc.so you might want to maximize your power system by matching the motor and packs to be happy with each other. ZB knows how to do that, and has done extensive experimenting with same. He also knows the SIG Kadet Senior and all it's attributes well.

Russ
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Old Sep 02, 2004, 04:27 PM
Visitor from Reality
United States, VA, Arlington
Joined Dec 1996
12,788 Posts
Okay, you've had the expensive routes.

Now the middle routes

Brushless - call Pete P at MEC. He's got a bunch of experience in dealing with sports glow conversions, plus makes one of the best 'boxes around for flexibility. He sells complete turnkey systems too. Slow models like this prefer a lot of slow moving prop - Pete's gearboxes can swing you all the prop you care to swing.

http://www.modelelectronicscorp.com/


Low dollar - go talk to Tom Hunt at MAT http://www.modelairtech.com/modelairtech.html

About his beltdrive with DeWalt drill motor - this is low tech, high quality, tough and about as cheap as it gets to haul "heavy metal" around.

How much power is needed for a Kadet Senior?

Not a lot. We had one in our club. Few volunteered to pick it up, so we never weighed it. The owner ran a BMW sedan, so had to make his wing two - piece. He reckoned that the metalwork alone in the joint weighed over a pound, then there was a fairly liberal amount of epoxy holding all the tubes in place ...

This thing had an Astro 40G up front with either a 20 or 24 cell pack for power. Even with that lot, we never used more than half throttle to do everything - everything being taking off, flying around and landing - wasn't about to loop it at those weights. But it wandered across the sky on a sniff of power even at that silly weight - if it was ten poundsm ++, it wouldn't have surprised me.

Lipos - go read up all you can on these beasties. If you're not into electrics to a knowledgeable level, you might just do some serious evaluation as to whether you might be happier with good old round cells - NiMh are as good as nicads these days too.

They don't catch fire, for one ...

That Cub in my avatar is Sig's 1/5th - does around 15 mins on 16 x GP3300 at 8lb 2oz AUW - not bad for non-incendiary cells at around $4.50 each ... . It's not that far removed in size / weight from the Kadet Senior either. MaxCim 13Y / 3:1 ratio, 15 x 8 APC-E, not many amps. Superb motor, worth every cent they cost, with speed control like it should be.

Sig make the best larger electric kits around, shame they keep drawing the glow conversion on their plans

Regards

Dereck
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Old Sep 02, 2004, 07:22 PM
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Laguna Hills, CA
Joined Aug 2004
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Thanks to everyone. I sent e-mails to the referred people & I'll let you know how it comes out.
Thanks again,
Bob
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Old Sep 03, 2004, 01:47 PM
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Quite interested in what you come up with because I am in the exact same position. I just don't want to fly glow anymore and I like my old Kadet... so converting it to something that would run on 8 or 10 or 16 or 20 cells would be great. (I have 8 and 10 cell packs).

Seanm
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Old Sep 03, 2004, 02:47 PM
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United States, PA, Beaver
Joined Sep 2001
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I Flew an old heavily modified Kadet SR for what seemed like years. Has an old K&B .65 in it. Haven't flown it in 2 years as I haven't touched a glow engine in that long
I was thinking about converting it, but after a closer look it is just too darned fuel soaked. It weighs in at a little over 10 pounds ( told ya it was heavily modified ) and floats in like it weighs 1/2 that much.
Will be starting on one this winter for electric... Haven't even considered the power system yet, but will be watching here for suggestions. I do want to stick w/ round cells for a plane this size.

I have one of the Dewalt drill motors on a TOm Hunt Drive. I love those belt drives. It is in a 10# old timer. I originally built it for glow, but switched at the last minute. Could have easily been built about 2 pounds lighter.
Using 16 cells for about 420 watts. Climb outs are a bit anemic, but cruise is about 1/2 throttle. I'm sure if you shaved some weight, the smaller ( less draggy) airframe of the Kadet should do jut fine w/ this low budget set up.
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Old Sep 03, 2004, 06:59 PM
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United States, MI, Temperance
Joined Sep 2002
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FWIW: I've collected most of the items I plan on using for a Telemaster .40 conversion. AXI 4120/18, UBEC, Castle PHX-60. Plan on a 5s lipo, but I'm not laying out for them until the rest is finished.
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