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Old Aug 19, 2004, 07:11 PM
M78Ultra
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pondering tire treads

Let's say you have a V tread tire (like factory T/E Maxx)
Do you have more grip/traction with the point of the V facing the front of
the truck (point of the V contacting the ground first) or the two ends of
the V facing the front of the truck (V ends contacting ground first)?
I have been thinking too much about this and it's bugging me!
It would seem to me that the V point facing front would be the most logical
choice as it would have less resistance and push dirt to the outside of the
wheel as where the other way (with V ends facing front/contacting first)
would pull dirt in towards the center of the tire.
On the other hand...if you weren't on dirt and say doing some rock
climbing/rough terrain running, wouldn't it be logical to assume that the
tires would perform better with the V ends making contact first providing
better bite?
What do you guys think?


Old Aug 19, 2004, 07:11 PM
Dean
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Re: pondering tire treads

On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 21:03:11 GMT, "M78Ultra" <M78Ultra@REMOVEtriad.rr.com>
wrote:

>Let's say you have a V tread tire (like factory T/E Maxx)
>Do you have more grip/traction with the point of the V facing the front of
>the truck (point of the V contacting the ground first) or the two ends of
>the V facing the front of the truck (V ends contacting ground first)?
>I have been thinking too much about this and it's bugging me!
>It would seem to me that the V point facing front would be the most logical
>choice as it would have less resistance and push dirt to the outside of the
>wheel as where the other way (with V ends facing front/contacting first)
>would pull dirt in towards the center of the tire.
>On the other hand...if you weren't on dirt and say doing some rock
>climbing/rough terrain running, wouldn't it be logical to assume that the
>tires would perform better with the V ends making contact first providing
>better bite?
>What do you guys think?


well, stock they are usually set so that the v point touches first. But in
loose sand and the like I would think that reversing them to get a cupping
action would be beneficial. It may have an impact on side bite though.

-Dean

---
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email: dean (at) the above domain
Old Aug 19, 2004, 09:11 PM
Mark Stevens
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n/a Posts
Re: pondering tire treads


"M78Ultra" <M78Ultra@REMOVEtriad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:jA8Vc.179328$wH4.11646279@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> Let's say you have a V tread tire (like factory T/E Maxx)
> Do you have more grip/traction with the point of the V facing the front of
> the truck (point of the V contacting the ground first) or the two ends of
> the V facing the front of the truck (V ends contacting ground first)?
> I have been thinking too much about this and it's bugging me!
> It would seem to me that the V point facing front would be the most

logical
> choice as it would have less resistance and push dirt to the outside of

the
> wheel as where the other way (with V ends facing front/contacting first)
> would pull dirt in towards the center of the tire.
> On the other hand...if you weren't on dirt and say doing some rock
> climbing/rough terrain running, wouldn't it be logical to assume that the
> tires would perform better with the V ends making contact first providing
> better bite?
> What do you guys think?
>

A question I have often pondered on myself but if you look at most full size
vehicles with same tyre patterns ( and there are plenty including your
humble Farm Tractor), you will see that the pointed end of the V does indeed
make contact first, so surely that is your answer.

Regards......Mark.


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Old Aug 19, 2004, 09:11 PM
mike
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Re: pondering tire treads

I've heard (haven't tried it myself) that traction is improved if you
reverse the tyres. However they are oriented that way as a historical thing
on 1:1 vehicles. On 1:1 vehicles it is done that way not for traction but
because the tyres will "self clean" themselves of stuck on mud etc better.
Which probably doesn't really apply too much to RC.

As another observation, I've tried some pins on my T-Maxx and it actually
makes it *harder* to drive unless conditions are just right - very hard to
judge corner speed since the extra side grip tends to exacerbate the T's
tendancy to traction roll in corners.

Mike


"M78Ultra" <M78Ultra@REMOVEtriad.rr.com> wrote in message
news:jA8Vc.179328$wH4.11646279@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> Let's say you have a V tread tire (like factory T/E Maxx)
> Do you have more grip/traction with the point of the V facing the front of
> the truck (point of the V contacting the ground first) or the two ends of
> the V facing the front of the truck (V ends contacting ground first)?
> I have been thinking too much about this and it's bugging me!
> It would seem to me that the V point facing front would be the most

logical
> choice as it would have less resistance and push dirt to the outside of

the
> wheel as where the other way (with V ends facing front/contacting first)
> would pull dirt in towards the center of the tire.
> On the other hand...if you weren't on dirt and say doing some rock
> climbing/rough terrain running, wouldn't it be logical to assume that the
> tires would perform better with the V ends making contact first providing
> better bite?
> What do you guys think?
>
>



Old Aug 19, 2004, 11:11 PM
Mark Stevens
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: pondering tire treads


"mike netspace.net.au>" <transam@<REMOVETHISINCLUDINGBRACKETS> wrote in
message news:41254bb6$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> I've heard (haven't tried it myself) that traction is improved if you
> reverse the tyres. However they are oriented that way as a historical

thing
> on 1:1 vehicles. On 1:1 vehicles it is done that way not for traction but
> because the tyres will "self clean" themselves of stuck on mud etc better.
> Which probably doesn't really apply too much to RC.
>
> As another observation, I've tried some pins on my T-Maxx and it actually
> makes it *harder* to drive unless conditions are just right - very hard to
> judge corner speed since the extra side grip tends to exacerbate the T's
> tendancy to traction roll in corners.


Self clean as in the V groove making contact first directs the mud to the
outside of the tyres, I have looked at it logically and can see that in
reverse it will draw mud into the centre of the tyres....(This will cause
same effect as a car aquaplaning on a very wet road surface) At the end of
the day we are trying to improve upon or maintain best running
conditions....even on road tyres with a V pattern the point of the V makes
contact first and the rest of the V provides more grip, providing a wider
footprint & chanelling the water away (especially in wet conditions).

But I don't worry about these things....my tyres are slicks now and the car
does great doughnuts.................

Regards.......Mark


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Old Aug 20, 2004, 03:11 AM
Justin Mahn
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n/a Posts
Re: pondering tire treads

Go with the guy that said to put the v's 1st except in snow and sand. He
knew what he was talking about.

Regarding the self-cleaning properties in mud and the aquatread effect,
you're stinking nuts if you want to run your T-Maxx in those conditions.
For the truly insane who DO run in sand and snow, try paddle tires and a
huge amount of electronics protection.

Bowties and pins give extra traction, and racers that use them have stiffer
suspensions to counter the traction roll properties and to keep the truck
from bottoming out. Bowties are widely regarded as the cure for sliding in
the corners, when you need more speed.

After all is said and done, please don't give advice without also giving the
source of your information. Rumors and gossip are not a good foundation for
technical advice. I've own a T-Maxx, and it's had both the original
suspension and the wide-maxx proline suspension. When I ran the tires
backwards, I lost a good bit of cornering ability on bumpy, dry, slightly
dusty conditions. It might be something to consider if your truck is
looping out, or in other words, swapping ends while cornering.

A better solution would be to change the shock oil and/or spring strength to
better balance the truck's weight vs. traction. You should run your truck
with heavy enough oil to keep from bottoming about and springs that are
strong enough to keep the truck from traction rolling. Tune traction out of
the end that has too much, because a blanced truck is much better than one
that spins out in a hard corner.


Disclaimer:
This is my opinion learned from trial and error from MY OWN T-maxx. I'm not
a national level driver, but I have been racing RC's for more than 5 years.


--
Justin Mahn
remove Panties to e-mail


"mike netspace.net.au>" <transam@<REMOVETHISINCLUDINGBRACKETS> wrote in
message news:41254bb6$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> I've heard (haven't tried it myself) that traction is improved if you
> reverse the tyres. However they are oriented that way as a historical thin

g
> on 1:1 vehicles. On 1:1 vehicles it is done that way not for traction but
> because the tyres will "self clean" themselves of stuck on mud etc better.
> Which probably doesn't really apply too much to RC.
>
> As another observation, I've tried some pins on my T-Maxx and it actually
> makes it *harder* to drive unless conditions are just right - very hard to
> judge corner speed since the extra side grip tends to exacerbate the T's
> tendancy to traction roll in corners.
>
> Mike
>
>
> "M78Ultra" <M78Ultra@REMOVEtriad.rr.com> wrote in message
> news:jA8Vc.179328$wH4.11646279@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> > Let's say you have a V tread tire (like factory T/E Maxx)
> > Do you have more grip/traction with the point of the V facing the front

of
> > the truck (point of the V contacting the ground first) or the two ends

of
> > the V facing the front of the truck (V ends contacting ground first)?
> > I have been thinking too much about this and it's bugging me!
> > It would seem to me that the V point facing front would be the most

> logical
> > choice as it would have less resistance and push dirt to the outside of

> the
> > wheel as where the other way (with V ends facing front/contacting first)
> > would pull dirt in towards the center of the tire.
> > On the other hand...if you weren't on dirt and say doing some rock
> > climbing/rough terrain running, wouldn't it be logical to assume that

the
> > tires would perform better with the V ends making contact first

providing
> > better bite?
> > What do you guys think?
> >
> >

>
>



Old Aug 20, 2004, 09:11 PM
Mark Stevens
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: pondering tire treads


"Justin Mahn" <gabrilPanties@tcainternet.com> wrote in message
news:10ib8juf32qh5d0@corp.supernews.com...
> Go with the guy that said to put the v's 1st except in snow and sand. He
> knew what he was talking about.
>
> Regarding the self-cleaning properties in mud and the aquatread effect,
> you're stinking nuts if you want to run your T-Maxx in those conditions.
> For the truly insane who DO run in sand and snow, try paddle tires and a
> huge amount of electronics protection.
> After all is said and done, please don't give advice without also giving

the
> source of your information. Rumors and gossip are not a good foundation

for
> technical advice. I've own a T-Maxx, and it's had both the original
> suspension and the wide-maxx proline suspension. When I ran the tires
> backwards, I lost a good bit of cornering ability on bumpy, dry, slightly
> dusty conditions. It might be something to consider if your truck is
> looping out, or in other words, swapping ends while cornering.



I trust your last reply wasn't directed at me Justin, with 28 years in the
Hobby and 24 of those in R/C, I think I am pretty qualified to gve out
advice and have indeed helped several people out to get their machines
running. The only r/c models I haven't tried yet are submarines (but that is
on the cards...!!!)

There is no reason why you can't drive a Traxxas through mud, so long as all
the relevant precautions have been taken before doing so like making sure
all the radio gear is waterproofed etc (ie receiver and battery pack),
servos are pretty well sealed in any case and will withstand quite a bit of
soaking, if in doubt open them up afterwards and dry them out. Mud splashes
are nothing.....General thing here is make sure you don't drive the car into
something where it is going to submerge completely and when you have
finished at the end of the day, CLEAN IT...!!! This little bit of after care
will keep you running for years and is something I do religiously with all
my models. I have 3 models in regular use aged 20 years now and another 2
which will be 20 next year. (One of those is a 19 yr old rather large Scale
German Panzer V AUSF-G Tank which copes with mud no problems...doing scale
mud on the tank is very hard to do, easier to drive it through the real
stuff...!!! and that is on twin electric motors too...!!1)

In short, a properly prepared model will put up with most abuse, even in the
case of a Traxxas being driven through mud, just make sure the car is up to
it and then please do CLEAN IT...!!! at the end of the day......by cleaning
you will spot any problems (ie loose nuts and bolts etc) that have occured
during your running time.
It doesn't take a lot but will prolong the life of your model.

Regards.........Mark.


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Old Aug 21, 2004, 07:11 AM
Justin Mahn
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: pondering tire treads


"Mark Stevens" <nospam@anywhere.com> wrote in message
news:cg641g$c6d$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Justin Mahn" <gabrilPanties@tcainternet.com> wrote in message
> news:10ib8juf32qh5d0@corp.supernews.com...
> > Go with the guy that said to put the v's 1st except in snow and sand.

He
> > knew what he was talking about.
> >
> > Regarding the self-cleaning properties in mud and the aquatread effect,
> > you're stinking nuts if you want to run your T-Maxx in those conditions.
> > For the truly insane who DO run in sand and snow, try paddle tires and a
> > huge amount of electronics protection.
> > After all is said and done, please don't give advice without also giving

> the
> > source of your information. Rumors and gossip are not a good foundation

> for
> > technical advice. I've own a T-Maxx, and it's had both the original
> > suspension and the wide-maxx proline suspension. When I ran the tires
> > backwards, I lost a good bit of cornering ability on bumpy, dry,

slightly
> > dusty conditions. It might be something to consider if your truck is
> > looping out, or in other words, swapping ends while cornering.

>
>
> I trust your last reply wasn't directed at me Justin, with 28 years in the
> Hobby and 24 of those in R/C, I think I am pretty qualified to gve out
> advice and have indeed helped several people out to get their machines
> running. The only r/c models I haven't tried yet are submarines (but that

is
> on the cards...!!!)


I was counting Dean's post as knowledgeable, and refering to Mike netscape's
post as to what he's "heard". I left your post alone. I apologize if the
thread got out of order and it seamed as if I replied to you, instead of
Mike's. Although I still wonder why you thought it was necessary to provide
information about v-treads on asphalt.

Did you get my point about not taking advice seriously from random people
who "heard" this and that?



>
> There is no reason why you can't drive a Traxxas through mud, so long as

all
> the relevant precautions have been taken before doing so like making sure
> all the radio gear is waterproofed etc (ie receiver and battery pack),
> servos are pretty well sealed in any case and will withstand quite a bit

of
> soaking, if in doubt open them up afterwards and dry them out. Mud

splashes
> are nothing.....General thing here is make sure you don't drive the car

into
> something where it is going to submerge completely and when you have
> finished at the end of the day, CLEAN IT...!!! This little bit of after

care
> will keep you running for years and is something I do religiously with all
> my models. I have 3 models in regular use aged 20 years now and another 2
> which will be 20 next year. (One of those is a 19 yr old rather large

Scale
> German Panzer V AUSF-G Tank which copes with mud no problems...doing scale
> mud on the tank is very hard to do, easier to drive it through the real
> stuff...!!! and that is on twin electric motors too...!!1)


I still think that a person is freeking crazy to enjoy completely breaking
down their models, which consist of several hundred individual pieces.
After running my Maxx though the mud, it generally took me 2-3 days of
cleaning in my spare time before I was satisfied that the grit wouldn't wear
out my moving parts and electronics the next time I took it out. Of course
I have since moved away from T-Maxx and I now own an RC10GT, which needs
less maintainence because it's 2wd. It has a lighter chassis and can
perform well with much cheaper components. The fact that the model in
question is a Traxxas has nothing to do with my advice.


>
> In short, a properly prepared model will put up with most abuse, even in

the
> case of a Traxxas being driven through mud, just make sure the car is up

to
> it and then please do CLEAN IT...!!! at the end of the day......by

cleaning
> you will spot any problems (ie loose nuts and bolts etc) that have occured
> during your running time.
> It doesn't take a lot but will prolong the life of your model.



Very good advice.



--
Justin Mahn
remove Panties to e-mail


Old Aug 22, 2004, 01:11 AM
Mark Stevens
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: pondering tire treads


"Justin Mahn" <gabrilPanties@tcainternet.com> wrote in message
news:10ie9papks15b7d@corp.supernews.com...
Although I still wonder why you thought it was necessary to provide
information about v-treads on asphalt.
> Did you get my point about not taking advice seriously from random people
> who "heard" this and that?


Thanks for your reply Justin and yes I did get your points, but I am
experienced enough in the hobby by now to know better ( I fly mainly Heli's
and planes where setting up and maintenance is all too important) I do drive
cars too, I haven't had one my self for some years but my 15 yr old Nephew
is now in the hobby with a Nitro car.....He bought it 3rd or 4th Hand and I
have done a lot of work on the car, even modifying it to bring it up to
latest specs and it now goes like stink, he enjoys it and I am justifiably
proud of my work......It is a pleasure to see that car perform so well. It
is a Thunder Tiger DT10 Mark 1 (early model) but brought up to Mark 2 specs.
I had to cut a new chassis to allow for this ( and in order to use some of
the newer parts as the older versions were not available) but it works well.

This car now has a Subaru Impreza Bodyshell fitted ( when I cut the new
chassis I increased the wheelbase length at the front by 5mm to take HPI
bodyshells)
It also has a working scale tailpipe on the exhaust which keeps the inside
of the car very clean.

It has a GP10 engine fitted but still leaves a Savage on a .21 standing.

Which brings me nicely to my next point, mentioning V treads on
Asphalt..........with the point of the V making contact first there is less
drag on the tyres, other way round slows the car down due to increased grip
and friction......Look at LandRovers...very robust but not fast and you can
hear the hum on the tyres a mile off...!!!

The tyres on my Nephews car were knobblies but are now virtually slicks, The
Savage he races against has big V type tread patterns on the tyres.....By
the time the Savage picks up acceleration on it's .21 my Nephews car is
already a spec on the horizon...!!!
(I might haved cheated a little here coz I know quite a bit about tweaking
engines and the transmission on his car is not the normal one by any
means...!!!)
But, even so....a.10 engined car leaving a .21 engined car
standing....speaks for itself...!!!

Regards.............Mark


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Old Aug 22, 2004, 11:11 PM
mike
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: pondering tire treads

Justin,

What's wrong with reporting things which people have mentioned to you? I
specifically said that I hadn't tried it myself and that it had been
mentioned to me by someone else. What more qualification did my statement
need?

If someone mentions to me that he's tried something and it worked like a
treat or not at all, why should I not pass this on with the appropritate
qualification that I haven't tried it myself (which is exactly what I did in
this case).

Sheesh, and someone here recently was wondering why there are few and fewer
posts on this group ....

Mike



"Justin Mahn" <gabrilPanties@tcainternet.com> wrote in message
news:10ie9papks15b7d@corp.supernews.com...
>


> > > After all is said and done, please don't give advice without also

giving
> > the
> > > source of your information. Rumors and gossip are not a good

foundation
> > for
> > > technical advice.


> I was counting Dean's post as knowledgeable, and refering to Mike

netscape's
> post as to what he's "heard". I left your post alone. I apologize if the
> thread got out of order and it seamed as if I replied to you, instead of
> Mike's. Although I still wonder why you thought it was necessary to

provide
> information about v-treads on asphalt.
>
> Did you get my point about not taking advice seriously from random people
> who "heard" this and that?



Old Sep 16, 2004, 03:11 PM
Sny
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: pondering tire treads

Mark Stevens wrote:

>
> The tyres on my Nephews car were knobblies but are now virtually slicks,
> The Savage he races against has big V type tread patterns on the
> tyres.....By the time the Savage picks up acceleration on it's .21 my
> Nephews car is already a spec on the horizon...!!!
> (I might haved cheated a little here coz I know quite a bit about tweaking
> engines and the transmission on his car is not the normal one by any
> means...!!!)
> But, even so....a.10 engined car leaving a .21 engined car
> standing....speaks for itself...!!!


Very impressive. Please pass the salt.

--

QUIPd 1.02: (672 of 679)
-> The Harvard Law states: Under controlled conditions of light,
-> temperature, humidity, and nutrition, the organism will do as
-> it damn well pleases. -- Larry Wall

My photo albums: http://www.pbase.com/sny
Old Sep 18, 2004, 07:11 AM
Divrdan007
Guest
n/a Posts
Re: pondering tire treads

>Subject: Re: pondering tire treads
>From: Sny whaleshark@mouse-potato.com


>
>Mark Stevens wrote:
>
>>
>> The tyres on my Nephews car were knobblies but are now virtually slicks,
>> The Savage he races against has big V type tread patterns on the
>> tyres.....By the time the Savage picks up acceleration on it's .21 my
>> Nephews car is already a spec on the horizon...!!!
>> (I might haved cheated a little here coz I know quite a bit about tweaking
>> engines and the transmission on his car is not the normal one by any
>> means...!!!)
>> But, even so....a.10 engined car leaving a .21 engined car
>> standing....speaks for itself...!!!


>> Nephews car is already a spec on the horizon...!!!


What model/brand vehicle is it?

>> (I might haved cheated a little here coz I know quite a bit about tweaking
>> engines.................
>> and the transmission on his car is not the normal one by any
>> means...!!!)


What's different about the transmission??

>> But, even so....a.10 engined car leaving a .21 engined car
>> standing....speaks for itself...!!!


A .10 Engine??
What brand/model is that?


 


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