Aug 19, 2004, 06:11 PM M78Ultra M78Ultra Guest n/a Posts pondering tire treads Let's say you have a V tread tire (like factory T/E Maxx) Do you have more grip/traction with the point of the V facing the front of the truck (point of the V contacting the ground first) or the two ends of the V facing the front of the truck (V ends contacting ground first)? I have been thinking too much about this and it's bugging me! It would seem to me that the V point facing front would be the most logical choice as it would have less resistance and push dirt to the outside of the wheel as where the other way (with V ends facing front/contacting first) would pull dirt in towards the center of the tire. On the other hand...if you weren't on dirt and say doing some rock climbing/rough terrain running, wouldn't it be logical to assume that the tires would perform better with the V ends making contact first providing better bite? What do you guys think?
 Aug 19, 2004, 06:11 PM Dean Dean Guest n/a Posts Re: pondering tire treads On Thu, 19 Aug 2004 21:03:11 GMT, "M78Ultra" wrote: >Let's say you have a V tread tire (like factory T/E Maxx) >Do you have more grip/traction with the point of the V facing the front of >the truck (point of the V contacting the ground first) or the two ends of >the V facing the front of the truck (V ends contacting ground first)? >I have been thinking too much about this and it's bugging me! >It would seem to me that the V point facing front would be the most logical >choice as it would have less resistance and push dirt to the outside of the >wheel as where the other way (with V ends facing front/contacting first) >would pull dirt in towards the center of the tire. >On the other hand...if you weren't on dirt and say doing some rock >climbing/rough terrain running, wouldn't it be logical to assume that the >tires would perform better with the V ends making contact first providing >better bite? >What do you guys think? well, stock they are usually set so that the v point touches first. But in loose sand and the like I would think that reversing them to get a cupping action would be beneficial. It may have an impact on side bite though. -Dean --- Proud owner of: Associated RC10GT Team Losi XX "CR" Team Losi XXX KE http://ripperd.com email: dean (at) the above domain
 Aug 19, 2004, 08:11 PM Mark Stevens Mark Stevens Guest n/a Posts Re: pondering tire treads "M78Ultra" wrote in message news:jA8Vc.179328\$wH4.11646279@twister.southeast.r r.com... > Let's say you have a V tread tire (like factory T/E Maxx) > Do you have more grip/traction with the point of the V facing the front of > the truck (point of the V contacting the ground first) or the two ends of > the V facing the front of the truck (V ends contacting ground first)? > I have been thinking too much about this and it's bugging me! > It would seem to me that the V point facing front would be the most logical > choice as it would have less resistance and push dirt to the outside of the > wheel as where the other way (with V ends facing front/contacting first) > would pull dirt in towards the center of the tire. > On the other hand...if you weren't on dirt and say doing some rock > climbing/rough terrain running, wouldn't it be logical to assume that the > tires would perform better with the V ends making contact first providing > better bite? > What do you guys think? > A question I have often pondered on myself but if you look at most full size vehicles with same tyre patterns ( and there are plenty including your humble Farm Tractor), you will see that the pointed end of the V does indeed make contact first, so surely that is your answer. Regards......Mark. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.740 / Virus Database: 494 - Release Date: 16/08/2004
 Aug 19, 2004, 08:11 PM mike mike Guest n/a Posts Re: pondering tire treads I've heard (haven't tried it myself) that traction is improved if you reverse the tyres. However they are oriented that way as a historical thing on 1:1 vehicles. On 1:1 vehicles it is done that way not for traction but because the tyres will "self clean" themselves of stuck on mud etc better. Which probably doesn't really apply too much to RC. As another observation, I've tried some pins on my T-Maxx and it actually makes it *harder* to drive unless conditions are just right - very hard to judge corner speed since the extra side grip tends to exacerbate the T's tendancy to traction roll in corners. Mike "M78Ultra" wrote in message news:jA8Vc.179328\$wH4.11646279@twister.southeast.r r.com... > Let's say you have a V tread tire (like factory T/E Maxx) > Do you have more grip/traction with the point of the V facing the front of > the truck (point of the V contacting the ground first) or the two ends of > the V facing the front of the truck (V ends contacting ground first)? > I have been thinking too much about this and it's bugging me! > It would seem to me that the V point facing front would be the most logical > choice as it would have less resistance and push dirt to the outside of the > wheel as where the other way (with V ends facing front/contacting first) > would pull dirt in towards the center of the tire. > On the other hand...if you weren't on dirt and say doing some rock > climbing/rough terrain running, wouldn't it be logical to assume that the > tires would perform better with the V ends making contact first providing > better bite? > What do you guys think? > >
 Aug 19, 2004, 10:11 PM Mark Stevens Mark Stevens Guest n/a Posts Re: pondering tire treads "mike netspace.net.au>" wrote in message news:41254bb6\$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au... > I've heard (haven't tried it myself) that traction is improved if you > reverse the tyres. However they are oriented that way as a historical thing > on 1:1 vehicles. On 1:1 vehicles it is done that way not for traction but > because the tyres will "self clean" themselves of stuck on mud etc better. > Which probably doesn't really apply too much to RC. > > As another observation, I've tried some pins on my T-Maxx and it actually > makes it *harder* to drive unless conditions are just right - very hard to > judge corner speed since the extra side grip tends to exacerbate the T's > tendancy to traction roll in corners. Self clean as in the V groove making contact first directs the mud to the outside of the tyres, I have looked at it logically and can see that in reverse it will draw mud into the centre of the tyres....(This will cause same effect as a car aquaplaning on a very wet road surface) At the end of the day we are trying to improve upon or maintain best running conditions....even on road tyres with a V pattern the point of the V makes contact first and the rest of the V provides more grip, providing a wider footprint & chanelling the water away (especially in wet conditions). But I don't worry about these things....my tyres are slicks now and the car does great doughnuts................. Regards.......Mark --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004
 Aug 20, 2004, 02:11 AM Justin Mahn Justin Mahn Guest n/a Posts Re: pondering tire treads Go with the guy that said to put the v's 1st except in snow and sand. He knew what he was talking about. Regarding the self-cleaning properties in mud and the aquatread effect, you're stinking nuts if you want to run your T-Maxx in those conditions. For the truly insane who DO run in sand and snow, try paddle tires and a huge amount of electronics protection. Bowties and pins give extra traction, and racers that use them have stiffer suspensions to counter the traction roll properties and to keep the truck from bottoming out. Bowties are widely regarded as the cure for sliding in the corners, when you need more speed. After all is said and done, please don't give advice without also giving the source of your information. Rumors and gossip are not a good foundation for technical advice. I've own a T-Maxx, and it's had both the original suspension and the wide-maxx proline suspension. When I ran the tires backwards, I lost a good bit of cornering ability on bumpy, dry, slightly dusty conditions. It might be something to consider if your truck is looping out, or in other words, swapping ends while cornering. A better solution would be to change the shock oil and/or spring strength to better balance the truck's weight vs. traction. You should run your truck with heavy enough oil to keep from bottoming about and springs that are strong enough to keep the truck from traction rolling. Tune traction out of the end that has too much, because a blanced truck is much better than one that spins out in a hard corner. Disclaimer: This is my opinion learned from trial and error from MY OWN T-maxx. I'm not a national level driver, but I have been racing RC's for more than 5 years. -- Justin Mahn remove Panties to e-mail "mike netspace.net.au>" wrote in message news:41254bb6\$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au... > I've heard (haven't tried it myself) that traction is improved if you > reverse the tyres. However they are oriented that way as a historical thin g > on 1:1 vehicles. On 1:1 vehicles it is done that way not for traction but > because the tyres will "self clean" themselves of stuck on mud etc better. > Which probably doesn't really apply too much to RC. > > As another observation, I've tried some pins on my T-Maxx and it actually > makes it *harder* to drive unless conditions are just right - very hard to > judge corner speed since the extra side grip tends to exacerbate the T's > tendancy to traction roll in corners. > > Mike > > > "M78Ultra" wrote in message > news:jA8Vc.179328\$wH4.11646279@twister.southeast.r r.com... > > Let's say you have a V tread tire (like factory T/E Maxx) > > Do you have more grip/traction with the point of the V facing the front of > > the truck (point of the V contacting the ground first) or the two ends of > > the V facing the front of the truck (V ends contacting ground first)? > > I have been thinking too much about this and it's bugging me! > > It would seem to me that the V point facing front would be the most > logical > > choice as it would have less resistance and push dirt to the outside of > the > > wheel as where the other way (with V ends facing front/contacting first) > > would pull dirt in towards the center of the tire. > > On the other hand...if you weren't on dirt and say doing some rock > > climbing/rough terrain running, wouldn't it be logical to assume that the > > tires would perform better with the V ends making contact first providing > > better bite? > > What do you guys think? > > > > > >
 Aug 20, 2004, 08:11 PM Mark Stevens Mark Stevens Guest n/a Posts Re: pondering tire treads "Justin Mahn" wrote in message news:10ib8juf32qh5d0@corp.supernews.com... > Go with the guy that said to put the v's 1st except in snow and sand. He > knew what he was talking about. > > Regarding the self-cleaning properties in mud and the aquatread effect, > you're stinking nuts if you want to run your T-Maxx in those conditions. > For the truly insane who DO run in sand and snow, try paddle tires and a > huge amount of electronics protection. > After all is said and done, please don't give advice without also giving the > source of your information. Rumors and gossip are not a good foundation for > technical advice. I've own a T-Maxx, and it's had both the original > suspension and the wide-maxx proline suspension. When I ran the tires > backwards, I lost a good bit of cornering ability on bumpy, dry, slightly > dusty conditions. It might be something to consider if your truck is > looping out, or in other words, swapping ends while cornering. I trust your last reply wasn't directed at me Justin, with 28 years in the Hobby and 24 of those in R/C, I think I am pretty qualified to gve out advice and have indeed helped several people out to get their machines running. The only r/c models I haven't tried yet are submarines (but that is on the cards...!!!) There is no reason why you can't drive a Traxxas through mud, so long as all the relevant precautions have been taken before doing so like making sure all the radio gear is waterproofed etc (ie receiver and battery pack), servos are pretty well sealed in any case and will withstand quite a bit of soaking, if in doubt open them up afterwards and dry them out. Mud splashes are nothing.....General thing here is make sure you don't drive the car into something where it is going to submerge completely and when you have finished at the end of the day, CLEAN IT...!!! This little bit of after care will keep you running for years and is something I do religiously with all my models. I have 3 models in regular use aged 20 years now and another 2 which will be 20 next year. (One of those is a 19 yr old rather large Scale German Panzer V AUSF-G Tank which copes with mud no problems...doing scale mud on the tank is very hard to do, easier to drive it through the real stuff...!!! and that is on twin electric motors too...!!1) In short, a properly prepared model will put up with most abuse, even in the case of a Traxxas being driven through mud, just make sure the car is up to it and then please do CLEAN IT...!!! at the end of the day......by cleaning you will spot any problems (ie loose nuts and bolts etc) that have occured during your running time. It doesn't take a lot but will prolong the life of your model. Regards.........Mark. --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004
 Aug 21, 2004, 06:11 AM Justin Mahn Justin Mahn Guest n/a Posts Re: pondering tire treads "Mark Stevens" wrote in message news:cg641g\$c6d\$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk... > > "Justin Mahn" wrote in message > news:10ib8juf32qh5d0@corp.supernews.com... > > Go with the guy that said to put the v's 1st except in snow and sand. He > > knew what he was talking about. > > > > Regarding the self-cleaning properties in mud and the aquatread effect, > > you're stinking nuts if you want to run your T-Maxx in those conditions. > > For the truly insane who DO run in sand and snow, try paddle tires and a > > huge amount of electronics protection. > > After all is said and done, please don't give advice without also giving > the > > source of your information. Rumors and gossip are not a good foundation > for > > technical advice. I've own a T-Maxx, and it's had both the original > > suspension and the wide-maxx proline suspension. When I ran the tires > > backwards, I lost a good bit of cornering ability on bumpy, dry, slightly > > dusty conditions. It might be something to consider if your truck is > > looping out, or in other words, swapping ends while cornering. > > > I trust your last reply wasn't directed at me Justin, with 28 years in the > Hobby and 24 of those in R/C, I think I am pretty qualified to gve out > advice and have indeed helped several people out to get their machines > running. The only r/c models I haven't tried yet are submarines (but that is > on the cards...!!!) I was counting Dean's post as knowledgeable, and refering to Mike netscape's post as to what he's "heard". I left your post alone. I apologize if the thread got out of order and it seamed as if I replied to you, instead of Mike's. Although I still wonder why you thought it was necessary to provide information about v-treads on asphalt. Did you get my point about not taking advice seriously from random people who "heard" this and that? > > There is no reason why you can't drive a Traxxas through mud, so long as all > the relevant precautions have been taken before doing so like making sure > all the radio gear is waterproofed etc (ie receiver and battery pack), > servos are pretty well sealed in any case and will withstand quite a bit of > soaking, if in doubt open them up afterwards and dry them out. Mud splashes > are nothing.....General thing here is make sure you don't drive the car into > something where it is going to submerge completely and when you have > finished at the end of the day, CLEAN IT...!!! This little bit of after care > will keep you running for years and is something I do religiously with all > my models. I have 3 models in regular use aged 20 years now and another 2 > which will be 20 next year. (One of those is a 19 yr old rather large Scale > German Panzer V AUSF-G Tank which copes with mud no problems...doing scale > mud on the tank is very hard to do, easier to drive it through the real > stuff...!!! and that is on twin electric motors too...!!1) I still think that a person is freeking crazy to enjoy completely breaking down their models, which consist of several hundred individual pieces. After running my Maxx though the mud, it generally took me 2-3 days of cleaning in my spare time before I was satisfied that the grit wouldn't wear out my moving parts and electronics the next time I took it out. Of course I have since moved away from T-Maxx and I now own an RC10GT, which needs less maintainence because it's 2wd. It has a lighter chassis and can perform well with much cheaper components. The fact that the model in question is a Traxxas has nothing to do with my advice. > > In short, a properly prepared model will put up with most abuse, even in the > case of a Traxxas being driven through mud, just make sure the car is up to > it and then please do CLEAN IT...!!! at the end of the day......by cleaning > you will spot any problems (ie loose nuts and bolts etc) that have occured > during your running time. > It doesn't take a lot but will prolong the life of your model. Very good advice. -- Justin Mahn remove Panties to e-mail
 Aug 22, 2004, 12:11 AM Mark Stevens Mark Stevens Guest n/a Posts Re: pondering tire treads "Justin Mahn" wrote in message news:10ie9papks15b7d@corp.supernews.com... Although I still wonder why you thought it was necessary to provide information about v-treads on asphalt. > Did you get my point about not taking advice seriously from random people > who "heard" this and that? Thanks for your reply Justin and yes I did get your points, but I am experienced enough in the hobby by now to know better ( I fly mainly Heli's and planes where setting up and maintenance is all too important) I do drive cars too, I haven't had one my self for some years but my 15 yr old Nephew is now in the hobby with a Nitro car.....He bought it 3rd or 4th Hand and I have done a lot of work on the car, even modifying it to bring it up to latest specs and it now goes like stink, he enjoys it and I am justifiably proud of my work......It is a pleasure to see that car perform so well. It is a Thunder Tiger DT10 Mark 1 (early model) but brought up to Mark 2 specs. I had to cut a new chassis to allow for this ( and in order to use some of the newer parts as the older versions were not available) but it works well. This car now has a Subaru Impreza Bodyshell fitted ( when I cut the new chassis I increased the wheelbase length at the front by 5mm to take HPI bodyshells) It also has a working scale tailpipe on the exhaust which keeps the inside of the car very clean. It has a GP10 engine fitted but still leaves a Savage on a .21 standing. Which brings me nicely to my next point, mentioning V treads on Asphalt..........with the point of the V making contact first there is less drag on the tyres, other way round slows the car down due to increased grip and friction......Look at LandRovers...very robust but not fast and you can hear the hum on the tyres a mile off...!!! The tyres on my Nephews car were knobblies but are now virtually slicks, The Savage he races against has big V type tread patterns on the tyres.....By the time the Savage picks up acceleration on it's .21 my Nephews car is already a spec on the horizon...!!! (I might haved cheated a little here coz I know quite a bit about tweaking engines and the transmission on his car is not the normal one by any means...!!!) But, even so....a.10 engined car leaving a .21 engined car standing....speaks for itself...!!! Regards.............Mark --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.742 / Virus Database: 495 - Release Date: 19/08/2004
 Aug 22, 2004, 10:11 PM mike mike Guest n/a Posts Re: pondering tire treads Justin, What's wrong with reporting things which people have mentioned to you? I specifically said that I hadn't tried it myself and that it had been mentioned to me by someone else. What more qualification did my statement need? If someone mentions to me that he's tried something and it worked like a treat or not at all, why should I not pass this on with the appropritate qualification that I haven't tried it myself (which is exactly what I did in this case). Sheesh, and someone here recently was wondering why there are few and fewer posts on this group .... Mike "Justin Mahn" wrote in message news:10ie9papks15b7d@corp.supernews.com... > > > > After all is said and done, please don't give advice without also giving > > the > > > source of your information. Rumors and gossip are not a good foundation > > for > > > technical advice. > I was counting Dean's post as knowledgeable, and refering to Mike netscape's > post as to what he's "heard". I left your post alone. I apologize if the > thread got out of order and it seamed as if I replied to you, instead of > Mike's. Although I still wonder why you thought it was necessary to provide > information about v-treads on asphalt. > > Did you get my point about not taking advice seriously from random people > who "heard" this and that?
 Sep 16, 2004, 02:11 PM Sny Sny Guest n/a Posts Re: pondering tire treads Mark Stevens wrote: > > The tyres on my Nephews car were knobblies but are now virtually slicks, > The Savage he races against has big V type tread patterns on the > tyres.....By the time the Savage picks up acceleration on it's .21 my > Nephews car is already a spec on the horizon...!!! > (I might haved cheated a little here coz I know quite a bit about tweaking > engines and the transmission on his car is not the normal one by any > means...!!!) > But, even so....a.10 engined car leaving a .21 engined car > standing....speaks for itself...!!! Very impressive. Please pass the salt. -- QUIPd 1.02: (672 of 679) -> The Harvard Law states: Under controlled conditions of light, -> temperature, humidity, and nutrition, the organism will do as -> it damn well pleases. -- Larry Wall My photo albums: http://www.pbase.com/sny
 Sep 18, 2004, 06:11 AM Divrdan007 Divrdan007 Guest n/a Posts Re: pondering tire treads >Subject: Re: pondering tire treads >From: Sny whaleshark@mouse-potato.com > >Mark Stevens wrote: > >> >> The tyres on my Nephews car were knobblies but are now virtually slicks, >> The Savage he races against has big V type tread patterns on the >> tyres.....By the time the Savage picks up acceleration on it's .21 my >> Nephews car is already a spec on the horizon...!!! >> (I might haved cheated a little here coz I know quite a bit about tweaking >> engines and the transmission on his car is not the normal one by any >> means...!!!) >> But, even so....a.10 engined car leaving a .21 engined car >> standing....speaks for itself...!!! >> Nephews car is already a spec on the horizon...!!! What model/brand vehicle is it? >> (I might haved cheated a little here coz I know quite a bit about tweaking >> engines................. >> and the transmission on his car is not the normal one by any >> means...!!!) What's different about the transmission?? >> But, even so....a.10 engined car leaving a .21 engined car >> standing....speaks for itself...!!! A .10 Engine?? What brand/model is that?

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