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Old Sep 12, 2002, 03:41 PM
Registered User
Idaho
Joined May 2002
1,067 Posts
Fourleaf,

I certainly agree about the quality issue, and there is no question that brushless is to be preferred over can motors. The dilemma is always about cost. Most of us see planes in the same light as potato chips - one calls for another - Each plane we build needs radio gear, motor and esc. With four or five planes in the hanger expense starts to mount, and that is why the $50.00 motor/gearbox looks attractive. Again, there are some of us more than willing to come up with whatever money is necessary to play the game, BUT that isn't the majority of the people in the hobby. The winner in the brushless wars will be the manufacturer that can get the motor/esc package close to the price of the cans. If the cost of a brushless is close, I'd be an idiot not to opt out for the higher quality system. Right now, the cost is almost double that of can motors and so I'm faced with having fewer but higher quality plane components, or, working with the less expensive (lower quality) motors in order to have more planes. Pleeeeze help me with my problem! I'll be watching to see what you come up with.

JT
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Old Sep 12, 2002, 03:54 PM
A Clinger
rclark's Avatar
Butte, MT
Joined Sep 2001
7,075 Posts
The big reason I went brushless was the 370 motor life (I was getting 20-30 flights per motor) using the 8 cell NiCd. I've since put 120 flights (5-6 370 motors already) on the AC1215/16 so the brushless is starting to 'pay' for itself -- in the long term. The bonus is more power for the same run time WOT... back off an get more run time..... You can't beat that! I fly 4-6 days a week with 6 - 8 flights a day on it. Thats 24-48 flights a week..... 1 to 2 motors used per week? Brushless is the way to go..... In my case... Your mileage of course will vary.....

Do wish the price was lower....... .
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Old Sep 12, 2002, 03:59 PM
DNA
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NE Ohio
Joined Jun 2001
3,311 Posts
Looee,

I'm with you on the cheap 280 motors. I was really impressed
with the way my 9oz plane flew on a dd 280 that I've been using
them in most of my small planes now. I've heard tell of folks
bending the shafts on their $100+ brushless and having to send
them in for costly repairs. I don't care if I break or dent or bend
the shaft on the 280, I just pop in another $1.75 motor and
continue flying. On just 6/720 nimhs, I get 15 minutes of
flying time and double that on a pair of 17670 li-ions. I haven't
tried 10 cells on a 280 yet that is referenced on the ifo site,
but then I don't really need to go vertical.
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Old Sep 12, 2002, 04:06 PM
Senior Member
Des Moines Municipal, Iowa, United States
Joined May 2002
401 Posts
DNA - good point. That is one reason that I am setting my motors up in a "modular" fashion, meant to be taken apart by the owner if needed. Bend a shaft - remove it and straighten it, or, order another shaft/bearing housing and swap it out yourself.

Besides that, OutrunnerZ parkflyer motors wont cost $100+.
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Old Sep 12, 2002, 04:14 PM
Registered User
Idaho
Joined May 2002
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fourleaf,

OK, you've stuck your foot in it. Just how much less than $100.00 will the OutrunnerZ Parkflyer motor cost? What about the ESC to go with it?

JT
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Old Sep 12, 2002, 06:54 PM
Senior Member
Des Moines Municipal, Iowa, United States
Joined May 2002
401 Posts
I have learned the hard way already! I wont be releasing any detailed info until I am CERTAIN I can deliver. I also expect to have a couple versions that will vary in price as well as performance. I am targeting "value", not "cheap". Whatever price you pay for an OutrunnerZ will be an excellent value for your hard earned money, that I guarantee. And it will be noticably less than $100.

I dont know if I will even offer controllers - I wont be making those, so cant control them, and hesitate to get in the business of re-selling. I also dont want to make only package deals (as some companies do) as "forcing" someone to buy a controller with their motor doesnt appeal to me. You should be able to buy the controller that YOU want, or use one that you may already have, IMO.

As soon as I have motors ready, I will see if I can entice some controller companies to make product targeted for 3-5A (my smallest brushless will be at home in the range of 1.5-5A). For 8A controllers and above, there are several options already, starting as low as $49.99 for the 8A MGM-Compro. The Castle Creations brushless controllers are excellent choices, and are my favorites so far...
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Old Sep 12, 2002, 08:50 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
The Netherlands, GE, Nijmegen
Joined Feb 2001
10,859 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by keven64
Ron,

http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach...92/speedybl.htm

As mentioned above, I have two MiniAC1215/16 motors, and would love to do a twin with these !

Any idea as to whether or not one of the controllers in the above link will work both motors at once ?

Keven.
Hi Keven, finished reading all the lrk info ? And now you're flogging the search engine? LRK certainly isn't a dead horse

The English version of the diy Speedy BL ESC:
http://jaichi.virtualave.net/electr-e.htm

The DIY Speedy-BL ESC gets very good notes in Germany, very versatile, lots of setup parameters to play with . I have not read anything about using this ESC to drive two brushless motors. I don't have to tell you that some twin setups work and some don't.

You can order the controller from:
http://www.megra-elektronik.de/
A builders report:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lrk-torquemax/message/572
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lrk-torquemax/message/648

Met vriendelijke groet Ron van Sommeren
ē lrk homebuilt outrunner e-motor discussion group.
ē E-fly-in & lrk meet, June 22nd, 2003, Nijmegen, the Netherlands.
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Old Sep 13, 2002, 12:36 AM
Registered User
Houston Texas
Joined Mar 2001
743 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by fill
I know many of the major manufactures read this board, so that is why Iím starting this tread, hopefully to get their attention on the product we desire in this hobby.
Fourleaf,

I would like to start out by saying I did not post this thread in order to directly bring competition to your motor, this thread was started way before I knew of your work. Iím still looking forward to your motors, and please keep up the good work, for humanity, and the betterment of society. Less ISP motors filling landfills, means more tree for a better earth. So please continue doing your part to save this world.

DNA,
I canít agree with you more on the cheaply available 280 motors, I too used these motors till I replaced it with a Brushless 010. The main problem I had with the 280ís, my lack of throttle management. For some reason, my speed 280 motors would only give me about 5 minutes of flight time, before I felt it was necessary to land due to over heating the motors. Now with my 010, soon as one battery pack is dead, I slap another on for continuous full throttle fun.


For the others who canít justify the cost of a brushless, I would like others state how many ISP motors they have smoked.

Iím currently working on burning up my 5th ISP motor.
Now I save my ISP hours for special events or flying at the park with buddies, of course for the betterment of society.

Philip
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Old Sep 13, 2002, 06:58 AM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
The Netherlands, GE, Nijmegen
Joined Feb 2001
10,859 Posts



Tapemeasure is in centimeters, not inches.
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Old Sep 13, 2002, 10:10 AM
Senior Member
Des Moines Municipal, Iowa, United States
Joined May 2002
401 Posts
fill - no prob, I noticed the date of the original posts anyway.

Ron - the amount of info coming from the LRK site NEVER ceases to amaze me! Thanks! I didnt even know there was a Speedy BL rated for 10A. I am going to have to order a few kits and see how those work out...
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Old Sep 13, 2002, 03:07 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
The Netherlands, GE, Nijmegen
Joined Feb 2001
10,859 Posts
@Jim/fourleaf,

The German version of the diy Speedy BL ESC site has more information, in a neat table. It's mostly tech-speak, should not be difficult to read.
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/...2/speedybl.htm
--> "Technisches/Features"

Both 'developments', Speedy -BL and lrk, happened more or less at the same time but had nothing to do with each other. As it happens, the Speedy BL is a very good controller for all brushless motors, including the lrk type outrunners.

Information on the workings of this controller:
http://www.aerodesign.de/peter/2001/...DY-BL_eng.html

The attached picture was taken at my clubs E-fly-in & lrk-meet this year. More pictures of this meeting here and here. This collection of homebuilt lrk-motors was made by Detlev Koch and his partner in crime Frank Schwaab.

Met vriendelijke groet Ron
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Old Sep 13, 2002, 03:30 PM
homo ludens modellisticus
Ron van Sommeren's Avatar
The Netherlands, GE, Nijmegen
Joined Feb 2001
10,859 Posts
And here's a lovely homebuilt gem I saw at our E-fly-in/lrk-meet.
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Old Sep 13, 2002, 04:10 PM
Live to ride... and fly!
Tres Wright's Avatar
Forney, TX
Joined Mar 2002
15,165 Posts
==For the others who canít justify the cost of a brushless, I would like others state how many ISP motors they have smoked. ==

I've killed a couple of standard IPS motors and 4 or 5 EDF motors. I push the EDF motors really hard in hybrid combinations, it's the best way to get brushless performance out of cheap motors on li-on cells. The motors aren't cheap when they need to be replaced frequently, but honestly for me the money is not an issue on motors. I post my results so everyone can know what to expect from a hybrid, but for me if I can get 2 or 3 hours flight time it's worth the exceptional performance. I would love to have a small brushless alternative and was very excited about fourleaf's work, hopefully he can make it happen. I even shelled out 120 bucks for an AF 010 in the hopes that it could replace my small motors, but it's far too heavy and sucks way too many amps to use on my Qualcomm fleet. The time is right for a small brushless motor!
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Old Sep 13, 2002, 04:40 PM
Senior Member
Des Moines Municipal, Iowa, United States
Joined May 2002
401 Posts
Wow - anyone that doesnt salivate over that tray full of high quality brushless motors has something wrong with them!


Thanks again, Ron.
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Old Sep 13, 2002, 05:15 PM
Registered User
Idaho
Joined May 2002
1,067 Posts
smoked can motors

Tres,

I'm happy to weigh in on the cooked can motor issue. I fly the GWS IPS, IPSD, and EDF motors. To date I have had one motor failure. A fellow modeler had a bad-from-the-get-go IPS motor. Several of the motors I fly have 50-100 flights on them. The experience here in Slick Rock doesn't bear out most of the complaints I've read on E Zone. I suspect that the success/failure rate of can motors has more to do with the way they are used than anything else. Take a 7.2v motor and push 9.6v at it and sure, it's going to fry quickly. Flying WOT for 5 minutes is guaranteed to heat things up. Until we can agree as to what constitutes use-vs-abuse, the fried can issue will just continue to spin in circles.

JT

Incidentally, the motor that failed me had about 50 30 min flights on qualcoms. I really don't think it failed. I think I wore the poor thing out.
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