SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Aug 15, 2004, 04:54 PM
don't think.. just fly!!!
Littleton, Colorado
Joined Apr 2004
554 Posts
Help!
help me please, about to give up on RC flying

I recently got an E-Starter from AllERC.com and after crashes and crashes I can get this plane to fly.

stock motor eps 400 c
APC prop 10x7
2/3AA 650mah 7 cells 8.4 v

here is the radio I'm using w/ the original servos http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LXEUM1**&P=0

this airplane take more than 100ft of run way and never actually have took off

here is the link continue to this thread http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...6&page=1&pp=15
xoon is offline Find More Posts by xoon
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Aug 15, 2004, 04:56 PM
Lookin' Good. Real Good.
larsy87's Avatar
London, Canada
Joined Aug 2002
3,979 Posts
Sorry to hear of your troubles.

Which servos, exactly? Can you give us a link to them?

Cam
larsy87 is offline Find More Posts by larsy87
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2004, 04:58 PM
Registered User
HawaiianFlyer's Avatar
Douglasville, GA
Joined Jun 2004
36 Posts
Can you post a pic of the plane? Also, have you checked to ensure your prop is on the right way? The writing should be away from the plane.
HawaiianFlyer is offline Find More Posts by HawaiianFlyer
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2004, 05:00 PM
don't think.. just fly!!!
Littleton, Colorado
Joined Apr 2004
554 Posts
here is the servos link http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LX0929&P=V

and I sure this prop is on the right way
xoon is offline Find More Posts by xoon
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2004, 05:03 PM
Lookin' Good. Real Good.
larsy87's Avatar
London, Canada
Joined Aug 2002
3,979 Posts
I'm sure those are your problem. 3 micro servos would probably weigh less than one of those. 3 of them probably come in at around 4.5 oz, coupled with a 5 oz pack, make for one really overweight estarter. Try switching them out for HS 55's or equivalent, you should see a remarkable increase in performance.
larsy87 is offline Find More Posts by larsy87
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2004, 05:07 PM
don't think.. just fly!!!
Littleton, Colorado
Joined Apr 2004
554 Posts
well don't have enough money for any more equipment, so that's why I'm givving up on this e-starter, where can I get HS 55's for the lowestprice possible. also this plane is for sale in RCU
xoon is offline Find More Posts by xoon
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2004, 05:08 PM
don't think.. just fly!!!
Littleton, Colorado
Joined Apr 2004
554 Posts
how many oz is the e-starter itself?
xoon is offline Find More Posts by xoon
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2004, 05:08 PM
Destroyer of pieces/parts
Charleston Municipal, South Carolina, United States
Joined Mar 2004
60 Posts
Heavy girl

Whoa, those are some heavy servos! It'll probably fly with them, but would have to fly a bit faster (read as "Not trainer fast/really make pieces fly if it crashes).

I would put some hitec HS-55's or GWS pico servos in there.

Also, the 400c likes a bit more voltage, and would probably do better on 8 cells.

EDIT:
At www.gwsexpert.com, naro servos are are $12 and pico servos are $14.

For this airplane I think they will work fine.
Vampyre is offline Find More Posts by Vampyre
Last edited by Vampyre; Aug 15, 2004 at 05:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2004, 05:57 PM
easily confused
mu2freighter's Avatar
Nashville Metro, Tennessee, United States
Joined Sep 2003
2,183 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoon
I recently got an E-Starter from AllERC.com and after crashes and crashes I can get this plane to fly.

stock motor eps 400 c
APC prop 10x7
2/3AA 650mah 7 cells 8.4 v

here is the radio I'm using w/ the original servos http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LXEUM1**&P=0

this airplane take more than 100ft of run way and never actually have took off

here is the link continue to this thread http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...6&page=1&pp=15
WOW! Original servos??? 2, or are you using 3, for ailerons?

Those servos weigh 1.59 oz. EACH, no wonder you're having problems! If you're using 3 servos, that's close to 5 oz just for servos! Even 2 servos is about 3.2 oz...WAY too heavy.

By way of example, my first parkflyer, a converted Dumas Alpha, 4 channels with ailerons, weighed just 7.5 oz., but that's all up weight, including 3 servos, 340 mAh lithium polymer 2 cell battery, motor, prop...EVERYTHING.

Are you using the receiver that came with that rig? Tower doesn't list a weight, but I bet it's a brick too.

When people ask me about getting started with light parkflyers, I suggest starting with a good computer transmitter. Great, you have that. You don't have to worry about all the little fiddly things like reversing, end point adjusting, and so on that used to be horrible to deal with mechanically. Now I can just install servos at will and set them up electronically using the transmitter. I advise my friends to buy a transmitter only, as it's easier and cheaper to custom make flight packs for each airplane based on its individual needs. You have yours already, but someone just starting out would be advised to forget the extras, and get the TX. I'm still using the obsolete but fine Hitec Prism 7, which can be had new or lightly used on eBay for under $100. If one has a bit more to spend, there's the new Eclipse 7, as well as fine units from Futaba, JR, and others.

Next, my personal opinion is that nicads and nickel metal hydride batteries are dead as the dinosaurs for small R/C planes, though there's still some debate going on regarding this subject. I'm convinced, myself. Yes, you need to become familiar with their charge, discharge, and use peculiarities, at the risk of ruining them or even causing a fire, but they put out so much energy at such a light weight, to me the extra care is more than worth it.
Not an essential upgrade, if you're short on budget, but WELL worth the outlay in the long run. My 1200 mAh lipo pack I'm using in my Zero is only 54 grams, compare that with a similar capacity nicad or nimh pack...

Careful shopping got me a Kokam 402 lithium polymer charger for a decent price of $75, BTW.

Servos. OK, GWS picos have worked fine for me, and I've bought them for as little as $12 each on eBay. They weigh 6 grams or so. Just ONE of the servos you used is about 44.5 grams, more than SEVEN Pico servos! Huge difference, eh?

I've been touting the great little 5.4 gram servos available from parkflyermotors.com too...I replaced a Pico servo in my Zero that I stripped out in a crash with one, and they work great. See the first pic I posted. $16 or so each, not a bad deal at all. You could use 8 and 1/4 of these servos for the same weight as one of yours.

Receiver: As I mentioned, I bet yours weighs a ton for this application. If you fly by yourself or just one or 2 other planes nearby, you should be OK with a GWS Pico R4P 4 channel receiver, just 5 grams or so. They're single conversion only, so if there are a lot of other R/Cers near you, they don't filter out radio noise and junk signals very well...you might want a higher grade receiver like a Berg DSP. I have a 5 channel Berg in my Stuka, and it's mighty nice, and still weighs only about 9.5g. with the plastic case removed.

Antenna: I hate seeing a nice looking sport or scale plane with an ugly floppy wire antenna trailing behind it. I use the McPherson Litenna. It comes in 2 sizes, parkflyer and slowflyer. The 'big' one's only 10" long or so, and can be stuffed into a fuselage with no ill effects, I hear, keeping 90% of the original range.

The 'little' one is only 6" or so long, and I use this in my Zero. It claims to retain 80% of the original range, but I've had it out far enough that the plane is just a tiny speck and never I've had a loss of control problem. You can get either for a mere $6 from parkflyermotors.com as well. See second pic I posted.

Not only does a Litenna on board look much better, but you get some other positives- less weight aft of the center of gravity, so balancing the plane is easier, less drag since the trailing wire antenna is eliminated, and besides, I've read more than once that the base loaded coil that makes the Litennas so small helps in rejecting radio noise.

Finally, I suggest replacing the heavy wire pushrods that come with GWS kits for the rudder and elevator with 2mm carbon fiber rods with fine wire ends to hook to the servos and flight control horns. You'll likely have to drill smaller holes in the servo arms and control horns so they don't slop around, but it takes just a couple of minutes with a pin vise. I learned about using these from the supplier I got my carbon rods from, Air Dynamics. Here's the Air Dynamics CF rod pushrod page I used. My third posted pic is the rudder pushrod for my Alpha. Nice, simple, clean, and VERY stiff.

There are lots of other techniques for lightening planes but these are the very basics. If I were you, I'd sell the receiver and servos and anything else you got with that radio other than the transmitter and its charger, and use the money to buy lightweight components. Budget permitting, I'd counsel going to lithium polymer batteries and a decent charger, too, but as much as this helps, it isn't essential.

Good luck, anything else you need, I or any of the nice folks who post here will be happy to help you out.

Take heart, this is a great hobby and your plane can fly beautifully...you just gotta use appropriate gear! Best part is, the good stuff is easy to install and use and is quite inexpensive...believe me, I'm on a tight budget myself these days!

Glenn

EDIT-OK, today, no matter what I do, the board won't upload my photos in the order I want, sorry. First, my CF pushrod, then the Litenna, then the 5.4g. servo. Dunno why it won't do my bidding

Glenn
mu2freighter is offline Find More Posts by mu2freighter
Last edited by mu2freighter; Aug 15, 2004 at 06:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2004, 06:19 PM
don't think.. just fly!!!
Littleton, Colorado
Joined Apr 2004
554 Posts
quite a post there mu2freighter, great thanks for the advice and I used 3 servos. can I use this servo http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_inf...products_id=42 weigh 17g.

if not where can I get the lightest and cheapeast servo under $12
xoon is offline Find More Posts by xoon
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2004, 06:27 PM
easily confused
mu2freighter's Avatar
Nashville Metro, Tennessee, United States
Joined Sep 2003
2,183 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by xoon
quite a post there mu2freighter, great thanks for the advice and I used 3 servos. can I use this servo http://www.gwsexpert.com/product_inf...products_id=42 weigh 17g.

if not where can I get the lightest and cheapeast servo under $12
No, no, NO! WAY too heavy! Big fat heavy servo bad! Heh heh heh...

You must start looking at weights with a critical eye, since little as each piece weighs, it all ADDS UP! LOL (ask anyone who's trying to diet )

17 grams? Not for these small planes...you want SIX GRAMS OR LESS...er, ahem, sorry...LOL, don't mean to raise my voice

Just get in the habit of thinking lightweight thoughts and you'll be OK

Where do you live? If you're in the US, get those 5.4g. servos, litennas, receivers, from parkflyermotors.com. Elsewhere, a good international site is Aircraft World...though it's great for US orders too, only $2.50 shipping (10 days or so) for small orders!

If I'm in a hurry, I buy GWS servos, receivers, and so on from eBay sellers 'memoryway' and 'tti 7.' This is where I got my 6 gram Pico servos for $12 or less each...

Great sellers both, and there are plenty others I haven't even done business with yet...

Glenn
mu2freighter is offline Find More Posts by mu2freighter
Last edited by mu2freighter; Aug 15, 2004 at 06:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2004, 06:41 PM
Registered User
Joined Dec 2003
74 Posts
The servos your using are the problem. WAY too heavy! Get some gws pico servos they only weigh about 6 grams.
ForeverNight is offline Find More Posts by ForeverNight
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2004, 07:08 PM
Registered User
Austin, TX, USA
Joined Feb 2001
415 Posts
I have to disagree. 9 gm servos would be just fine for the estarter, and you might find them a bit cheaper.
Bob Baker is offline Find More Posts by Bob Baker
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2004, 07:16 PM
easily confused
mu2freighter's Avatar
Nashville Metro, Tennessee, United States
Joined Sep 2003
2,183 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Baker
I have to disagree. 9 gm servos would be just fine for the estarter, and you might find them a bit cheaper.
With all due respect, you guys gotta read what xoon originally posted...he was using THREE 44gram servos!

I made some other recommendations including lighter receivers, lipos, etc.

Yeah, a 9g. servo or 2 would indeed be OK, likely...but there are other issues here.

Glenn
mu2freighter is offline Find More Posts by mu2freighter
Reply With Quote
Old Aug 15, 2004, 10:21 PM
Callsign: CornDog
HawkLover's Avatar
Milpitas, CA
Joined May 2003
5,364 Posts
My 2 cents:

A speed 400 motor is NOT the way to go. The added weight between the motor and battery pack sort of takes away from the extra performance you may see with the 400. A 350 motor would be lighter and perform very well. Proping down may also help a bit.
HawkLover is offline Find More Posts by HawkLover
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help! Just about to give up on helis. please fix my uncontrolable tail wag delamar Micro Helis 23 May 27, 2006 09:58 AM
Please Help:i Dont Wanna Give Up On Jets! submarco Pusher Prop Jet Models 24 Dec 08, 2005 10:54 AM
Don't give up on me Ray H! InTheLift Slope 21 Nov 15, 2004 10:57 AM
About ready to give up on CD-ROM conversions... papasmurf Power Systems 20 Jul 20, 2004 09:29 PM
Help READY TO GIVE UP ON LITESTIK brudford Parkflyers 21 Apr 26, 2002 03:05 PM