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Old Aug 11, 2004, 10:08 PM
Rhinebeck CD-99,00,01,02
Tom Smith's Avatar
New Bern, NC
Joined Mar 2001
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KIT says that salt water will not discharge the pack. Now two guys say it will, one says no. Looks like it will go swimming tomorrow. Will let ya know what happens. Personally, I liked my idea of putting a bullet through it first, to kinda get things started. Tom
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Old Aug 11, 2004, 10:38 PM
kit
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USA
Joined Oct 2001
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kit didn't say that salt water wouldn't discharge a lipo pack. He said salt water wasn't a "dead short". He also said he put a lipo pack into salt water to discharge it and the pack sunk to the bottom of the container. Left overnight the pack produced a lot of bubbles and went out in the trash the next day.

Quote:
perhaps due to superheated water currents?
LOL Do you see what I mean about coming up with nonsense stuff? LOL Boy, I'd really like him to prove that one.

Yes, I have actual experience with discharging a lipo pack in salt water and that the pack sunk to the bottom. That's why I made that remark. Unfortunately there are no posts in this thread by RD, or hoppy, or SharksTooth, or Dave that show that they have any experience or test results that show that the lipos will float. So none of those posts are worth the bandwidth they're posted on.

Quote:
The gas that is produced in a puffed Lithium polymer pack is Hydrogen.
According to your theory then, if they get enough H2 in them, they'll then float in the air too??? Rrrright???? When you have some proof, let us know. Until then....... use your sump pump.
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Old Aug 11, 2004, 10:52 PM
Rhinebeck CD-99,00,01,02
Tom Smith's Avatar
New Bern, NC
Joined Mar 2001
3,070 Posts
Kit

What say we skip the snide remarks and help one another here. Isn't that what these forums are for. My pack never swelled, it just got hot to the touch after 10 minutes on the charger, so it went out in the back yard. I never abused it. The original owner might have, but I doubt it because I have two other 3s Kokam 600s from him and they are fine in my Gee Bee R1. Just this one was acting up and cutting out early even after a full charge. Then it got hot recharging. Thanks for any and all help you guys can give me on disposing of this pack safely. Tom
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Old Aug 11, 2004, 11:01 PM
Aerobatic Extremist
SharksTooth's Avatar
United States of America For Which We Stand!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kit
Until then....... use your sump pump.
Until you get finished with High School I suggest you do just that. If you had a clue about what buoyancy was you would not have made nonsensical remarks like you just did. Making condescending remarks only proves that the individual has a small mind and cannot come up with any relevant remarks of his own. Wow! did I just say that?!?!?
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Old Aug 11, 2004, 11:07 PM
Space Coast USA
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Space Coast
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kit
when the resistance of salt in water is in the 100's to 1000's of ohms ............
Give us a reference to that 100's to 1000's ohms please.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I asked you KIT, if your statement included a ballooned cell. Does your statement, the cell will sink, include ballooned cells?
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Old Aug 12, 2004, 12:14 AM
kit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy
Give us a reference to that 100's to 1000's ohms please.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Do you have a DVM, some salt and half a glass of water? Do you need instructions? Let us know what resistance measurement you get from your test. At least then you'll have some experience, unlike the rest of the lipo experts.

Quote:
I asked you KIT, if your statement included a ballooned cell. Does your statement, the cell will sink, include ballooned cells?
Both cells in the 1200 pack were slightly puffed when they sank to the bottom of the bucket. I didn't measure how much they were puffed. Sorry, if I knew it would be a big deal I would have measured the puffiness, as if that was really important for some reason.
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Old Aug 12, 2004, 12:33 AM
Space Coast USA
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So what you're saying is that you don't have any idea and it was just a WAG...LOL
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Old Aug 12, 2004, 12:36 AM
Aerobatic Extremist
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Hoppy,
Naw man, he's got everything figured out...after all, he's an ex-spurt.
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Old Aug 12, 2004, 12:40 AM
Striving to Rip the Bring
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppy
Give us a reference to that 100's to 1000's ohms please.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

I asked you KIT, if your statement included a ballooned cell. Does your statement, the cell will sink, include ballooned cells?
It would depend on the amount of salt.

--Alex
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Old Aug 12, 2004, 01:00 AM
Tight is Right
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Lehi, Utah, United States
Joined Dec 2001
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I've been dealing with Lipos for a long time now... and I've had a few fail spectacularly.

I find if I charge each and every one of my packs assuming it is going to blow up, I don't have a problem. If I store them assuming they will blow up, I don't have a problem.

Solution: Two $10 fire proof safes -- one for charging and suspect packs (where failures are more likely), one for storage (if one goes, they all may, but resting failures are extrodinarily rare). IMHO, these are mandatory lipo equipment: cheap, easy to transport, and proven effective.

Having had Nitromethane model fuel in my garage, I sleep much better knowing there are just lipos out there now.

Darren
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Old Aug 12, 2004, 01:43 AM
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Georgia
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Quote:
Both cells in the 1200 pack were slightly puffed when they sank to the bottom of the bucket. I didn't measure how much they were puffed. Sorry, if I knew it would be a big deal I would have measured the puffiness, as if that was really important for some reason.
If the cells puff enough it's quite possible that they could displace an amount of salt water equal to or greater than the weight of the cells.
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Old Aug 12, 2004, 04:54 AM
Got shenpa?
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Los Angeles
Joined May 2004
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Fortunately I'm not juvenile enough to believe I know the answer to everything, but there is always room for sound reasoning. Here's some food for thought.

I just measured my Kokam 1500 mAh 2S1P cells at roughly 3.6cm x 1cm x 7.3 cm, for a volume of roughly 26 cubic centimeters. This cell weighs 73 gm on my digital scale. Put those two numbers together, and the cells specific gravity works out to roughly 2.8 gm/cc, which is to say, 2.8 times denser than water.

These cells would have to puff out to almost three times their volume before they would float in water. I've never seen a puffed-up LiPO first-hand, only pictures on the 'Web, but based on those I'd say it is unlikely that that much swelling would occur. And before someone points it out, yes, salt water is denser than 1gm/cc, but not enough to significantly affect the outcome.

In the big picture, though, it seems mighty insignificant whether the cells floated or sank in the water. The important thing is that they burned!

-Flieslikeabeagle
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Old Aug 12, 2004, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kit
... Unfortunately there are no posts in this thread by RD, or hoppy, or SharksTooth, or Dave that show that they have any experience or test results that show that the lipos will float. So none of those posts are worth the bandwidth they're posted on.


According to your theory then, if they get enough H2 in them, they'll then float in the air too??? Rrrright???? When you have some proof, let us know. Until then....... use your sump pump.
kit, you can stop your ad hominum commentary anytime - the rest of us will be relieved. It's not impressive - it says more about you than it does about us. Cut it out.

- RD
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Old Aug 12, 2004, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Smith
KIT says that salt water will not discharge the pack. Now two guys say it will, one says no. Looks like it will go swimming tomorrow. Will let ya know what happens. Personally, I liked my idea of putting a bullet through it first, to kinda get things started. Tom
Tom,

The saltwater will discharge the pack slowly. There's no reason not to put a bullet through it first, if you want to.

Sorry about all the personal garbage that's crept into your thread. Thanks for sharing - now that's helpful to us.

- RD
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Old Aug 12, 2004, 06:17 AM
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Daren,

I think your solution is a good one. I also use two BrinksBoxes, one for charging and transporting, the other for storage.

If I had enough cells to worry about it, I would buy as many boxes as I needed @ $10 per and divide the packs up for storage. The really large packs, e.g, 6s4p @ about $200 per, could stand an extra 5% spent for an individual storage box I think.

- RD
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Last edited by RD Blakeslee; Aug 12, 2004 at 06:23 AM.
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