HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Sep 12, 2011, 04:50 PM
Registered User
Gold Coast Australia.
Joined Jan 2005
2,472 Posts
Intentional crashery. Not my scene thanks.
gossie is offline Find More Posts by gossie
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Sep 12, 2011, 06:24 PM
Registered User
kkphantom's Avatar
Australia, WA, Perth
Joined Nov 2010
618 Posts
I'm with Gossie, Irresponsible behaviour like that gives the whole hobby a bad name
kkphantom is offline Find More Posts by kkphantom
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 12, 2011, 07:18 PM
Registered User
Ajax, Ontario, Canada
Joined Oct 2004
2,568 Posts
Exactly so, KK.

I'll wager that the 'pilot' paid money for the Falcon for I cannot see a builder subjecting a large and complex creation to such abuse.
Applehoney is online now Find More Posts by Applehoney
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 13, 2011, 02:56 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
South-west France
Joined Sep 2007
4,429 Posts
With you all the way guys; might provide a few minutes "entertainment" for the more mindless Youtube masses, but it projects a bad image and demonstrates pretty much the same level of intellect as your average neighbourhood vandal.
Sundancer is offline Find More Posts by Sundancer
RCG Plus Member
Old Sep 13, 2011, 04:26 AM
Sic itur ad Astra
sparks59's Avatar
United Arab Emirates, Abu Dhabi, Abu Dhabi
Joined Aug 2009
1,603 Posts
My repeated comment through the video is...'numpty'

It wouldn't be my idea of fun, but just to add balance, assuming(!!) they were flying their own kit, I guess they were not hurting anyone else or their property.

If it was really the Severn MFC?, then let the flea bay buyer beware!
sparks59 is offline Find More Posts by sparks59
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 13, 2011, 04:44 AM
Registered User
Monza Red's Avatar
Shrewsbury, Shropshire.
Joined Mar 2008
918 Posts
They could have chosen a less beautiful model to do it with!
Monza Red is offline Find More Posts by Monza Red
Last edited by Monza Red; Sep 13, 2011 at 11:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 13, 2011, 04:45 AM
Registered User
dover, kent, UK
Joined Apr 2003
404 Posts
I agree that it's bad publicity to some degree but it's no worse than some club limbo competitions that I've seen. Having said that I'm not clear in my mind if the intention of the "club" is to bring their planes out the other side in one piece. IF the intention is to have fun crashing them then they are in breech of the Air Navigation Orders (ANO) in the UK which defines that a criminal offence has been committed if damage to an aeroplane or property is intended. In the UK all models, including paper aircraft, are subject to the same legislation as full size, with some exceptions.
(In one UK city the police had to stop operations with a UAV as it was in breech of these same ANOs). Incidentally, the lead body in the UK which arranges insurance for the bulk of UK modellers, specifically excludes intentional crashes from its insurancei.e. the pilot would be liable if, say, the bridge fell down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! or, much more likely, the model fuel causes pollution in the stream.
Braddock, VC is offline Find More Posts by Braddock, VC
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by Braddock, VC; Sep 13, 2011 at 05:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 16, 2011, 05:35 AM
Registered User
DoctorG's Avatar
United Kingdom, Basingstoke
Joined Nov 2011
28 Posts
Hi
New to this forum and I see the thread has been going on for some time so I hope that somebody is still keeping an eye on it. I have just completed a Falcon from the orginal KK plans with RC and old Laser 61 upfront. I have scoured the plans and the web for the balance point - can't find it.
Mine currently balances on the main spar with is by my maths 25% of the wing chord. This strikes me as a bit nose heavy. Probably safe to fly but I would normaly expect a model of this layout to balance between 30%-40%.
Can anybody tell me where it should balance?

Also - engine down thrust. Just noticed a comment about it being required. Again I should have realised that so I'll have to go and sort it out. Again can anybody confirm the one comment (sorry I can't remember who wrote it).

Cheers in advance.

PS loonies flying under the bridge shouldn't be encouraged in my view
DoctorG is offline Find More Posts by DoctorG
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 16, 2011, 12:28 PM
Sticks, Tissue & old Diesels
brokenenglish's Avatar
France, Centre, Amboise
Joined Nov 2011
1,481 Posts
Hi,
Well, dear old Albert Hatfull may have forgotten the CG position, but Ben Buckle didn't!
On the plan, the wing profile and mount are a bit curved close to the LE, so I measured Ben's (Falcon!) CG position from the trailing edge (less prone to interpretation). Ben shows the CG as precisely 213 mm in front of the wing TE.
I'd use that... Ben was one of the best people I've ever known for practical vintage RC advice.
He's also marked on the plan 1.5 right sidethrust and 0.5 downthrust, but these can obviously be compensated by trim and are less important than the CG.
You've got me wanting to build now! But I have an engine choice problem, about which more anon...
Regards,
Brian
brokenenglish is offline Find More Posts by brokenenglish
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Running the "K" Hawk 0.2cc...
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 16, 2011, 02:02 PM
Registered User
DoctorG's Avatar
United Kingdom, Basingstoke
Joined Nov 2011
28 Posts
Cheers Brian great stuff. That puts it at 35% - which is smack in the middle of where I thought it probably ought to be. Tail weight here we go.

I agree with the engine thrust comments - I have got the right thrust in so I'll probaly fly it an see what downthrust it needs.

Thanks again. Graham
DoctorG is offline Find More Posts by DoctorG
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 17, 2011, 12:38 AM
Registered User
Ian Easton's Avatar
United Kingdom, Scotland, Fife
Joined May 1999
2,838 Posts
My Falcon is about to get back on schedule. I had to take a side step to build another model I had commited to a long time ago (see DH87B Hornet Moth over in the scale section). The Moth is finally done and flying well - now back to the Falcon. It wouldn't be long till I was asking the same CG question as I'm building of the original plan too. Glad to see the question being answered up ahead.
Ian Easton is offline Find More Posts by Ian Easton
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 17, 2011, 04:11 AM
Registered User
DoctorG's Avatar
United Kingdom, Basingstoke
Joined Nov 2011
28 Posts
Having put a few ounces of lead in the tail here she is ready to rock and roll. Only weighs 7lbs 12oz - so how you can manange to build one at 10lbs is a mystery to me.

It has detachable tail & fin assembly, bolt on wings and beefed up U/C all as recomended at various points in this thread. I'm hoping the weather on Sunday will live up to its forecast down here in the South East so I can give her some air.
DoctorG is offline Find More Posts by DoctorG
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 17, 2011, 04:16 AM
Registered User
dover, kent, UK
Joined Apr 2003
404 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoctorG View Post
Hi
New to this forum and I see the thread has been going on for some time so I hope that somebody is still keeping an eye on it. I have just completed a Falcon from the orginal KK plans with RC and old Laser 61 upfront. I have scoured the plans and the web for the balance point - can't find it.
Mine currently balances on the main spar with is by my maths 25% of the wing chord. This strikes me as a bit nose heavy. Probably safe to fly but I would normaly expect a model of this layout to balance between 30%-40%.
Can anybody tell me where it should balance?

Also - engine down thrust. Just noticed a comment about it being required. Again I should have realised that so I'll have to go and sort it out. Again can anybody confirm the one comment (sorry I can't remember who wrote it).

Cheers in advaince.

PS loonies flying under the bridge shouldn't be encouraged in my view
Hi DrG,
I've had two Falcons recently, the first, which I still have, has a laser 70 up front this flies with 5 (five) degrees of downthrust and no sidethrust. The other ended up with a saito 62 and had less downthrust though I can't be sure how much as I sold it 2 years or so ago.
That engine is probably identical in output to your choice and also about 75% more power than the original model.
The only falcon I have seen flying with ben buckles downthrust had an open rocker OS 60 4 stroke up front.
Without the downthrust, my laser 70 powered Falcon climbed very steeply and required masses of down elevator to compensate. I used tapered plastic thrust plates (available from slec) to establish the ball park and then, because of the long bearers on the laser, prevailed upon a friend to mill me a pair up from aluminium alloy, I have to own up and admit I still haven't fitted these 7 years on.
If I were you I'd build as per the plan then add the downthrust as necessary.
With regard to the c of g, my first one balanced on the spar and my laser is probably lighter than yours, it now balances about 45% chord and, provided I let it float around, doesn't cause any probs and it indicates thermals so much better. I went down this route following experiences with my 84" span Southerner which has ended up with the c of g at 70% back from the leading edge (the plan showed 60% for the 60" version).
I'm pretty sure that the long moment arm and a more efficient airfoil section on the stab allows such heresy as this, just my view.
Braddock, VC is offline Find More Posts by Braddock, VC
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Reverse Takeover
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 18, 2011, 10:15 AM
Registered User
DoctorG's Avatar
United Kingdom, Basingstoke
Joined Nov 2011
28 Posts
Hi VC

Thanks. As I say I'll fly it and see what downthrust it needs.

I won't do what I did with my Buccaneer a couple of years ago - slam the throttle open like I do on my 3d models only to watch it loop straight over my head and 're-kit' itself as they say! Oops.

Mind you it did have a Saito 45 in it - way way too big! You live and learn.
DoctorG is offline Find More Posts by DoctorG
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2011, 11:48 AM
Registered User
Ian Easton's Avatar
United Kingdom, Scotland, Fife
Joined May 1999
2,838 Posts
DoctorG
How are your wing bolts set up? Are you using two, four?
Ian Easton is offline Find More Posts by Ian Easton
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Repost: Keil Kraft Outlaw Plan required. Steve_Bennington Sport Planes 22 Jul 21, 2010 09:26 AM
Looking fo Keil Kraft plans Ian Easton Free Flight 12 Dec 30, 2009 01:57 PM
EP and R/C Keil Kraft Chief? Ragnar Electric Sailplanes 10 Oct 07, 2009 05:36 AM
Keil Kraft Senator Tony Oliver Free Flight 12 Nov 14, 2004 10:40 PM