HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Nov 29, 2011, 03:38 AM
Sticks, Tissue & old Diesels
brokenenglish's Avatar
France, Centre, Amboise
Joined Nov 2011
1,623 Posts
Thanks George (and Doc),
My only related experience to date is my Majestic Major, which flies superbly (and gently) with a Laser .45.

As you say George, vintage models require very little power indeed to just float around. The only potential problem, I think, is the take-off run and hauling it off the deck.
As my Australian friend David Owen pointed out, it makes undercarriage tracking very important.
One solution would be to try to squeeze an interchangeable engine mounting plate into the nose.
Also, I remember when the Laser 45 was first produced, Neil Tidey proved the engine by flying it in a Falcon, and it flew very well.
Mmmm, back soon when I've thought about it!
brokenenglish is offline Find More Posts by brokenenglish
RCG Plus Member
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Nov 29, 2011, 05:10 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
South-west France
Joined Sep 2007
4,783 Posts
Re taking off; as I said Brian, I can only really relate to electrics. My Halfax Spartan is about 2/3rds the size of the Falcon and of similar configuration. The 300 watt Turnigy motor in it is severe overkill, I have it propped down to 250 watts but even so at full throttle it is off the (very) rough grass in my adjacent field in less than 2 metres - talk about STOL, well, STO at least. That's what it looks like in the photo. However, given a decent surface at one of the local club firlds I do proper take offs at half throttle, which my watt meter tells me is 120 watts, the tail is up in five metres and it is easily off and gently climbing in 10-12 metres. I'm not sure how to relate the electric figures to the Taplin, but the point I am making is that, with the original undercarriage position (typically far forward vintage), it tracks and takes off fine on very little power, which actually surprised me rather as I would normally move the undercart back a bit on a model like this or expect it to be ground loopy.
Sundancer is offline Find More Posts by Sundancer
RCG Plus Member
Old Nov 30, 2011, 02:50 AM
Registered User
DoctorG's Avatar
United Kingdom, Basingstoke
Joined Nov 2011
28 Posts
Hi Brian

My Falcon lifts on on 3/4 throttle from a patch that is currently very wet and stick. It hauled an addition 6oz of mud off last time stuck to the wheels (I know 'cos I was sad enough to scrape it off and measure it!). As Sundancer says it also tracks as straight as a die and has shown no ground loop tendancys.

I don't know about lifting off in 2m - I gently open the throttle and she lifts off half way down our strip (which is 70m) so lift off in 30-35m - but as I say at 3/4 throttle on a Laser 61.
DoctorG is offline Find More Posts by DoctorG
Reply With Quote
Old Nov 30, 2011, 06:17 AM
Sticks, Tissue & old Diesels
brokenenglish's Avatar
France, Centre, Amboise
Joined Nov 2011
1,623 Posts
Falcon again

Thanks gentlemen,
I've convinced myself that the TT will be OK providing I'm careful about the tracking.
A few other comments: My problem stems from the fact that, being an old free-flighter (mainly), I always hand launch (Jr 60s & similar), especially as the old engines I use don't usually have throttles.
However, the Majestic Major is obviously beyond the possibility of hand launching, especially for someone flying alone. So the MM was/is take-off only. Unfortunately, on the second flight (years ago), I flew it out of range and it became the only RC model I've ever crashed. The crash didn't do terminal damage and the plane was flying again three days later, but I've never been able to bend the the undercarriage back into anything like proper alignment. The result was years of "hairy" take-offs, until finally the inevitable ground loop, when I decided to provisionally retire it, pending a new U/C, which is still the case today.
I've also been a bit persuaded by Doc's "only 7.5 lbs". I thought it would weigh quite a bit more. My MM weighs 9lbs.
Anyway, Thanks to you both!
Brian
brokenenglish is offline Find More Posts by brokenenglish
RCG Plus Member
Old Dec 01, 2011, 04:17 AM
Sticks, Tissue & old Diesels
brokenenglish's Avatar
France, Centre, Amboise
Joined Nov 2011
1,623 Posts
Over to the 2012 Build-Off

Hi All,

OK, I've made the decision to transfer my "Falcon" ramblings to the 2012 Build Off thread!!!
For the record, and concerning Taplin Twins, I dug out the Aeromodeller account of of the Charlie Dance / Wally Skeels world record flight (in the July 1960 A/M). Their Smog Hog (a little bit smaller than a Falcon) weighed 10.5 lbs at take-off (actually, the FAI authorised a hand launch because of the rough state of the Lympne airport runway). The 10.5 lbs included 30 oz of fuel, so the plane without fuel weighed around 8.6 lbs.
They never had any problem with engine power (and they did have elevator control). Their engine was a TT Mk I, which is a bit less powerful than the Mk II or Mk III which I shall be using.
Finally, during the winter, I had intended drawing on George's wisdom to convert the attached KK Pirate to RC. It only weighs 6.6 oz as shown, and is nose heavy, needing around 10 g under the tailplane to fly FF, so it would be an ideal conversion candidate.
However, all that has just gone out of the window, and will have to wait until after the Build off!
Brian
brokenenglish is offline Find More Posts by brokenenglish
RCG Plus Member
Old Dec 01, 2011, 04:57 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
South-west France
Joined Sep 2007
4,783 Posts
Great stuff Brian, I'm sure the Falcon will be a beaut - but come on now, the build-off doesn't start until January 1st, plenty of time to convert that cute little Pirate - only needs cutting into the tailplane and fin, or even build them again from scratch, couple of 6 gram servos and linkages and you can lose the tail weight. Shouldn't take more than a week or two! IF I could find some diesel fuel I would build mine for the Kalper, and I bet I could have that done from scratch before Christmas.

I'd forgotten about the Dance/Skeels Smog Hog. It had a bigger that standard wing didn't it, but if the Taplin flew that at 10.5 lbs it should have no problem with the Falcon.
Sundancer is offline Find More Posts by Sundancer
RCG Plus Member
Old Dec 01, 2011, 05:58 AM
Sticks, Tissue & old Diesels
brokenenglish's Avatar
France, Centre, Amboise
Joined Nov 2011
1,623 Posts
George,
You've underestimated the depth of my mess! I have a couple of planes virtually finished, that I'm going to try to finish during this month. If not, it will be "while bits of the Falcon are drying...".
I have a Vic Smeed Electra (PAW .19 RC TBR), and this Junior 60. If you look carefully, the J60 isn't finished (no wing/tail dowels, no windows or wheels), I just laid the bits out together to take the photo. I'll need the Electra and J60 to "get my hand in again" before risking a Falcon, as I haven't flown RC for some time. The J60 has a mounting plate to fly with as many as possible of my diesels, it's only going to weigh 2.5 lb all-up.
brokenenglish is offline Find More Posts by brokenenglish
RCG Plus Member
Old Dec 01, 2011, 06:31 AM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
South-west France
Joined Sep 2007
4,783 Posts
Ah, I see Brian - clearly you are a professional model starter! I sympathise, I used to be as bad if not worse, I always had several part built models hanging around the workshop. These were all sold or given away when we moved to France and since then I have been very strict with myself and won't start another model until the current project has flown. It seems to work, in the first threef years we were here I didn't build anything, just flew and maintained the models I had brought over with me whilst doing all the renovation work on the house, however, since getting started on the building board again I have managed 12 completed and flown radio models in two years, which is about as many as I have ever built in that sort of time. One thing I have noticed is that the elapsed time of the build doesn't seem to vary very much, with vintage models at least, with the size of the model - e.g. the 30 inch Eastbourne Monoplane took just as long as the 60 inch Spartan. It is the fiddly bits that take the time!!
Sundancer is offline Find More Posts by Sundancer
RCG Plus Member
Old Dec 01, 2011, 08:57 AM
Sticks, Tissue & old Diesels
brokenenglish's Avatar
France, Centre, Amboise
Joined Nov 2011
1,623 Posts
The accused pleaded guilty...

George,
Sir, that’s exactly the problem. Here are another three, and there are several more that I haven’t photographed!
I used to have a bit of a complex about it, until one day I visited my late friend Keith Harris, who said « Oh, you’re just a beginner! » and promptly showed me around his fairly large house, with about 20 models in various states of progress, all around the house (in cupboards, under bed, on top of wardrobe, you name it!).

Now this Build Off is just the stimulant I need to « keep at it », there’s a lot of mutual encouragement and fun discussions.
Brian
brokenenglish is offline Find More Posts by brokenenglish
RCG Plus Member
Old Dec 01, 2011, 07:18 PM
Registered User
Ian Easton's Avatar
United Kingdom, Scotland, Fife
Joined May 1999
2,843 Posts
A Phantom Mite! My 2nd control liner back around 1973. I still have the original plans and engine (DC Super Merlin).

As for the Falcon. I only have one half of the center section left to build then all the components are built. woohooo!
Ian Easton is offline Find More Posts by Ian Easton
Last edited by Ian Easton; Dec 01, 2011 at 11:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 02, 2011, 06:08 AM
Sticks, Tissue & old Diesels
brokenenglish's Avatar
France, Centre, Amboise
Joined Nov 2011
1,623 Posts
Ian, I apologise for getting a bit off subject, but I shall be starting my own Falcon within the next few days. I've just been checking that I have all the authentic stuff I need (airwheels, etc.). Hopefully, during the W/E, I shall do a few fuel consumption checks on the Taplin Twin, to see exactly what I need in terms of tank size. Again, it'll be a traditional metal tank. I also have to check that I have pieces of silk long enough for the wing panels (I think so).
Apologies again for filling your Falcon thread with Jr60, Pirate, Phantoms and a Quaker Flash. I promise I won't do it again! I must do an inventory of these "3/4 built" planes, I know there's a Peacemaker and a Bill Dean Pacer T/R in there somewhere...
Brian
brokenenglish is offline Find More Posts by brokenenglish
RCG Plus Member
Old Dec 02, 2011, 07:06 PM
Registered User
Ian Easton's Avatar
United Kingdom, Scotland, Fife
Joined May 1999
2,843 Posts
No problem Brian -it's all interesting stuff, and it was nice to see an old Phantom Mite again. The one's my friend and I built flew so badly (put it down to lack of teenage building skills) we called them the Phantom Sh...e.
Ian Easton is offline Find More Posts by Ian Easton
Last edited by Ian Easton; Dec 05, 2011 at 10:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 05, 2011, 10:20 PM
Registered User
Ian Easton's Avatar
United Kingdom, Scotland, Fife
Joined May 1999
2,843 Posts
Wings are about done. Just a bit of sheeting to do...
This model has been an immense amount of work. I've never built one with so much construction involved before.
Ian Easton is offline Find More Posts by Ian Easton
Last edited by Ian Easton; Dec 05, 2011 at 10:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 06, 2011, 03:43 AM
Registered User
DoctorG's Avatar
United Kingdom, Basingstoke
Joined Nov 2011
28 Posts
That's another reason I didn't post any built shots of mine - my workshop is always a mess .

In fact the only one I have is the attached which show the wing centre sections with the carbon tubes in place on tthe fuse. Thought it may be of interest as I departed from tradition.

Engine cowl is held in place with magnets - and the fact that the carb and silencer have to be attached after the cowl is fitted, so it ain't going any where
DoctorG is offline Find More Posts by DoctorG
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 06, 2011, 11:49 AM
Registered User
Ian Easton's Avatar
United Kingdom, Scotland, Fife
Joined May 1999
2,843 Posts
DoctorG,
What size servos did you use?
Ian Easton is offline Find More Posts by Ian Easton
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Repost: Keil Kraft Outlaw Plan required. Steve_Bennington Sport Planes 22 Jul 21, 2010 09:26 AM
Looking fo Keil Kraft plans Ian Easton Free Flight 12 Dec 30, 2009 01:57 PM
EP and R/C Keil Kraft Chief? Ragnar Electric Sailplanes 10 Oct 07, 2009 05:36 AM
Keil Kraft Senator Tony Oliver Free Flight 12 Nov 14, 2004 10:40 PM