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Old Jun 24, 2004, 07:18 AM
Registered User
Sweden
Joined Jun 2004
3 Posts
GWS Tiger Moth: Advanced flying?

I have just made a hole in the ground with my Piko stik, so now itīs time to buy a new plane.
Iīm thinking instead to buy the first small Tiger Moth from GWS with the DX2BB motor.

-Can this plane make loopings without fall into pieces?

-And has anyone converted this model with ailerons?

-Hints on modifications that I "have to do" directly after unpacking?

/L-O
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Old Jun 24, 2004, 11:26 AM
Registered User
Allentown, PA
Joined May 2002
8 Posts
TM - advanced flying

I have been flying my GWS -TM for about 2 years by now.
I had a couple of mishaps due to windgust/aerobatics, breaking the wings. as well as a couple of close encounters with trees and other obstructions.

I have done the following modifications:
1. Installed carbon fiber tubing under the wings to stiften the wings. Mounted with package tape about 1/4 of the cord from the leading edge.
2. Put in cross bracing, heavy sewing thread between top and bottom wings. One cross between the "N" strut at the wing and the center section.
3. upgraded to a 350 (C) motor/gearbox using a 9x6 AP sloflyer propeller, with a Great Planes prop adapter on a shortened shaft.

I have not done an aileron modification yet, but that is an interesting thought though.

I am using 8.4 V NiMH / 650 mAh, but am actually upgrading to LiPo soon.

Plane can do unlimited loops, tophats etc. It is not 3D though.

I fly of a golf course in my backyard. There are many trees, and it creates a lot of turbulence. The IPS power system was strugling to pull me through, but with the 350 I take off like a rocket. Gliding however is not good, and ground handling can be a little hard on the landing gear, but it is in general very nice to fly.
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Old Jun 24, 2004, 11:43 AM
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geoff_s14's Avatar
UK
Joined Sep 2002
371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by leifgund

I have not done an aileron modification yet, but that is an interesting thought though.
Those who have tried to add ailerons to the picomoth report that they have very little effect. This is because of the large amount of wing dihedral, which is struggling all the time to keep the wings level. If you want to try this for yourself anyway, I suggest buying a new wing set (they are available) and assemble them with only a very small amount of dihedral, and work from there. In any event you will need linked ailerons on both upper and lower wings (like on the 3D TM).
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Old Jun 24, 2004, 03:14 PM
Barnstormin' Buckaroo
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Adirondack Foothills,Upstate New York
Joined Mar 2004
476 Posts
One mod that is a must is landing gear bracing.Very simple really.Get the smallest diameter music wire available and put it across the landing gear at the point it exits the fuselage.Make a very tight u-bend in one end so it comes back at 180 degrees with about an 1/8 inch extra.Make sure it just fits around lg wire.Hold it across to the other side and make a cut line with marker at about 3/16 past lg wire.Cut at mark and twist ends with needle nose pliers around about one full circle.This will prevent the landing gear from bending outwards on hard landings and blowing the sides of the fuselage apart.I also cut a small piece of foam from the tailfeather extras to put under neath when epoxying in for extra strenght.Will post pics of mod later.
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Old Jun 25, 2004, 02:50 AM
Off 2 The Edge of Reality
TeamTEOR's Avatar
Scottsdale, AZ
Joined Sep 2003
7,479 Posts
Whats the CG of the TM? I am almost built with a few mods.
350C, ICS-300 (sticking out and getting cooled at the fuse hole under the cowl), with a 9070, basswood on the struts, and I will but using a TP1345 lipo.
I have also used a generous ammount of packing tape around the plane and epoxy to help make it solid. I want to use velco or tape to hold my Lipo in place on the center of the lower wing inside of the fuse, but I have no idea how that will effect the ballance or if that is even the normal spot for it.
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Old Jun 25, 2004, 06:50 AM
Barnstormin' Buckaroo
waldo p's Avatar
Adirondack Foothills,Upstate New York
Joined Mar 2004
476 Posts
I forget the exact C.G. numbers(don't have manual in front of me)but they are clearly marked in said manual.However,this seems to make bird slightly tail heavy.With stock setup(IPS drive)batteries rubberbanded to top just ahead of front cockpit or bottom right between landing gear seems to work best.The front stick for lower wing makes an ideal anchor point for rubber bands and allows movement,for and aft,of battery to achieve proper ballance.
If you're using an EPS350,ballance shouldn't be a problem if you go by the suggested C.G.Hope this helps.

Waldo P.
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Old Jun 25, 2004, 09:11 AM
lukeselectric-rc
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Blackpool, Great Britain (UK)
Joined Mar 2004
661 Posts
i believe the stock tigermoth cg is 35-45mm back from the leading edge

luke
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Old Jun 27, 2004, 10:29 AM
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Sweden
Joined Jun 2004
3 Posts
It would be great if you all could post pictures on all of the mod's you all are talking about.
I have just bought the kit...I saw immediately that the two fusalage halves don't have the same lenght, the difference is about 3-4mm. But I think I will line up the surfaces of the wing saddle and all other edges have to line up as they want and then I have to adjust them with a knife and sandpaper.
Also, the two halves were bending out from the centerline, each in a different manner, that also bad I think, so the precision isnīt to good? Still I paid around $77 for the kit that contains bad quality foam

Gluing with epoxi...is there something I have to think about ? I have read somewhere that some people make the epoxi glue thinner. Experiences?

Battery: The battery I should use in the TM is a 110-150mAh battery due to the instruction manual. But I'm going to use my old Piko Stik batteries which are NiMh 350mAh, 72x30x11mm. So I have to modify the battery room. Do you have suggestion of how? That's easy I think to make the fuselage to weak!
I have also thought about if there could be some way to make a locking device for the battery so it will be easier to switch battery in the field and in the same time also hold the battery in place. Suggestions?

Ok I'm not an expert - that's why I have so many questions
But with help from all of you guys maybe I will come into air in this summer

/L-O
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Old Jun 27, 2004, 11:36 AM
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TeamTEOR's Avatar
Scottsdale, AZ
Joined Sep 2003
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I'll post up my strut mod pictures later. Yes, you should use Epoxy, the GWS glue is not that great. It really is only a contact cement and takes forever to set.

Here is Arizona where I am at the stock IPS system is not strong enough for these planes. A lot of the people I have spoken to who fly outdoors have been installing a EPS 300C or 350C with a 9070 prop. If your Piko Stick flew well for you on with a IPS then stick with it. You can always change the motor out later.

If you are worried about weight, you could always switch over to Lipo batteries. I am not sure how many amps these IPS motors pull but I use a 2s Etec or Kokam 800 in a different plane with a geared 180 and a heavier APC 7x5e prop. This plane might be a candidate for a setup such as that stock. That 2s Etec & Kokam packs weigh next to nothing.

I too had a problem with the fuse being different sizes, after the epoxy set, I just sanded things to look even. It was not that bad, but you are right, GWS should do a little more quality control on the product.

I took some light balsa and cut out two squares and epoxied it to the wire of the landing gear where it inserts into the fuse. Then when I inserted it into the fuse with epoxy I added small balsa shims to make it a tight fit so the wire coule not bow out against the foam. This stopped most of the landing gear flex. Another thing people have been doing is getting hollow carbon fiber rods and cutting them in half to make a set of pants for the landing gear wire, again using epoxy. The above mod Waldo sugested works as well nicely.
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Old Jun 27, 2004, 12:12 PM
Off 2 The Edge of Reality
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Scottsdale, AZ
Joined Sep 2003
7,479 Posts
This is how I made my 350C fit into the cowl. I might mod it for some down thrust after the maiden flight.


I have not sanded the struts yet. I will paint it yellow when done, and I know I used too much epoxy, I was half asleep when doing it. I used Basswood as I felt Balsa was not strong enough.


The LG wire is tight to the wood and is epoxied to it well, the wood should absorb most of the stress. The LG wire does not flex as much now. I also wanted my ESC to get some air so it is in the battery area. I'll mount the Lipo ontop of the lower wing inside the fuse.
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Old Jun 28, 2004, 07:11 AM
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Sweden
Joined Jun 2004
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Iīm confused...The instruction manual says nothing in which direction the trust angle shall have. Only the amount. And the picture (Fig. 1, side 5) reveals nothing (I donīt have the parts with me at my work, only the manual, so maybe I can understand more if I have had the fuselage parts)
But as I can remember from old days, the engine shall point to the right if Iīm seeing it from the "pilot view"...am I right ?
And with some models they say that the motor shall point some degrees downwards...how is this with the TM?
Thanks!
L-O
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Last edited by los945; Jun 28, 2004 at 07:14 AM.
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Old Jun 28, 2004, 10:56 AM
Off 2 The Edge of Reality
TeamTEOR's Avatar
Scottsdale, AZ
Joined Sep 2003
7,479 Posts
Yeah, that is right. That is why they want you to draw that line onto the motor stick, so you can see that yourself. Most of the time that thrust angle is build into the fuse, sometimes you need to make it a touch more pronouced. With my old Slow Stick I had to really make it pronounced, 3-4 degrees each both down & to the right. I tried to keep the stock thrust angle for this setup on the TM, but there has been too much wind to maiden to see if it is ok.
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