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Old Jun 15, 2004, 10:43 PM
Big gov never Works
St. Martin's Avatar
Skunk Water, Rhode Island
Joined Jul 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmpAce
Steve, aahhhhh yes! Someday I must do that! This one is destined for the more mundane, ugly old tundra tires. By the way do you have a favorite very lightweight doped covering that is relatively easy to apply. If so, how would you guess it compares to solite, for weight?

AmpAce
I guess it would depend on my goal as far as "scale level" I was after. At 60" WS I would probably go all the way with a silk covering & silkspan. Surface detail,etc.. For a standoff type I would stick with a light wt film and paint it. Econo-Kote has worked very well for me. The film would keep taught because the frame is sealed w/dope and will not swell or contract with humidity changes. Econokote is heavier than Solite, but with 60" of wing the WL would still be light. Solite doesn't care for paint, from what I hear.

Understand please, that I build much more than I fly. So silk is always on the top of my list for "rag" planes.

Steve
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Old Jun 16, 2004, 02:34 AM
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North by Northwest
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Steve, Thanks, I'm obviously not as skilled builder as you, so will probably stick to Solite. I wish they made a version that was a little more opaque. Also I want to keep it as light as feasible. I really like the looks of some of the iron-on fabric type coverings such as coverite 21st century fabric, but they are all so heavy, about 5 times what solite weighs, I think. I may decide to try litespan or airspan though. They are only slightly heavier, but need balsalock or such to tack them to the airframe. Also they need paint or dope which adds weight. Anyway I still have time to decide.

AmpAce
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Old Jun 16, 2004, 06:08 AM
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Bristol, UK
Joined Oct 2002
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AmpAce,

You could always look at 'doculam' which is light, clear and takes paint well, JIMA will second that I'm sure?

Chris
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Old Jun 16, 2004, 08:20 AM
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Albuquerque, NM USA
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Doculam is also a bit heavier than solite, at least the stuff I have is. Then add paint and it is even more. From what I have done (and that isn't a lot) the light coverings plus paint are about the same as the standard coverings.

I did not see what you are going to use for power, but, adding the good covering probably won't hurt you much in the end. Since you are adding flaps they will allow slower landing speeds and it is already very light wing loading. Rather than cover and paint I would go with the fabric looking stuff and not paint.

charlie
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Old Jun 16, 2004, 08:25 AM
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Albuquerque, NM USA
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Forgot, airspan may be a good alternative too. I actually like using balsaloc with the stuff. It really sticks good where you want it to. You do use a bit more cause it does have a grain you have to account for. I have not tried to get a gloss dope finish look from it, but, others probably have. Also takes paint VERY well, brushed and sprayed. Suprisingly abrasion resistant as well. My Sop Tripe wingtips show little wear after having been dragged across the asphalt many times .

charlie
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Old Jun 17, 2004, 01:17 AM
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Thanks, Charlie. I may just end up using solite, cause I know it's about the lightest stuff you can get. Have some time to cogitate anyway. I plan on using a Nippy Black 1812/100, which is probably overkill. Also have an Axi 1812/34 which should also work. Either way I'll try 3 li-po's, probably 2200's.

I've been scheming ways to keep the weight down and reduce electrical complexity. Thinking maybe I'll try a push-pull cable on the ailerons, with just one servo. Another servo should run the flaps, with of course one each for rudder and elevator. With 4 small servo's I should be able to get by using the bec in the Phoenix 25, rather than installing a separate one. Think I'll use a pull-pull system for the rudder and elevator. Thought about trying pull-pull on the ailerons, but that sounds like needless mechanical complexity, especially since I wnat to add some differential.

I have some ugly big, long-moment hinges which I'm planning to use on the flaps. They mount way back from the leading edge of the flap, and the hinge point is forward of the wing trailing edge, so they kind of hinge down and back. Supposed to somewhat duplicate fowler flaps I guess. I saw a similar setup on a 1/4 + scale Super Cub a while back at the club field. They worked very impressively. Seemed very stable and slowed her way down.

Not much progress today. I'm at one of those stewing, fiddling stages that I go through when building, especially when I'm modifying something.

Here are some more crummy photo's. Can't seem to get them right yet. Will keep trying.

More later,

AmpAce

Photo's:

more tailfeathers

wings with ailerons and flaps pinned on
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Old Jun 17, 2004, 01:44 AM
Big gov never Works
St. Martin's Avatar
Skunk Water, Rhode Island
Joined Jul 2002
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Coming along nicely!

I would like to "throw a wrench" in the works here.. Light airplanes fly better. Very true, except, when they can't fly. I live in a breezy area. Every time I build a plane that will fly on minimum power, it sit's for months in the house. Or is religated to chasing bats and bugs around the lamp posts ay Wally Mart in the eve's.

While building a brick is not suggested, building and powering to suit the conditions, is a good option. If you have the power, a higher WL is benificial to smoother flight.

Docalam, altho slightly heavier will not make as much of a wt diff as one may think. But according to charlie, JIMA and others, it adds strength and paints well.

Just a little "wrench" philosophy..

Steve
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Old Jun 17, 2004, 09:44 AM
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Albuquerque NM
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Amp, If it's a fabric weave you're looking for, look at Nelson Litefab. It appears to be the same type material as Solartex, but much lighter. Whatever you do, stay away from 21st Century fabric, it's almost FIVE TIMES the weight of Litefilm.
I have painted Litefilm with reasonably good results. To prep the stuff, I wipe it down with lacquer thinner, which leaves behind, a chaulky white residue. Remove the residue with plain old white vinigar. Untill the color goes on, don't touch the cover with your bare hands or you'll see the fingerprints left behind by the natural oil in your skin.
PAT
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Old Jun 17, 2004, 01:10 PM
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North by Northwest
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Pat and all, thanks for the suggestions. I looked up the Nelson Litefab. Looks like good stuff, and also comes in colored (already painted) versions. The only drawback seems to be it's weight. They list it as being 2.9 to 3.3 oz. per sq.yd., which is almost as heavy as listed for 21st century fabric. I totally agree with you, Pat, about that 21st century stuff. I covered a Herr 48 inch Cub with it, and it's so heavy it barely flies, and not much like a Cub either. Looks and goes on nice though. I'm sure it would create warpage problems on a light airframe such as this Super Cub.

I'll sure welcome any and all additional ideas for covering, control linkage, flap hinges, etc.

We're still having fun!!

AmpAce
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Old Jun 17, 2004, 01:15 PM
Big gov never Works
St. Martin's Avatar
Skunk Water, Rhode Island
Joined Jul 2002
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Too bad I don't live in North by Northwest.. I would teach you silk & dope
First hand!

Steve
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Old Jun 18, 2004, 02:03 AM
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North by Northwest
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Steve, Do you mean RoDilind is not in North by Northwest? Seriously, you would probably have your work cut out trying to teach this old dog new tricks! Anyway, I would welcome your expertise in person, as I do here on the forum. I did some covering years ago with doped tissue, and doped silkspan I think it was called. It was kind of a heavier paper stuff with a sort of random particle size and pattern to it. I never had very good results with either. Do remember getting woozy and sick feeling from breathing to many dope fumes. I was working indoors, without enough ventilation. Maybe that''s what's wrong with my brain! Must be some reason I keep wanting to do these wierd projects.

Seriously, though, I just want this model to be a light, good flying model that looks like a Super Cub bush plane from a distance. Definitely want it's appearance to be presentable though. At my skill level, that sometimes is a large order!

The hardest part for me is knowing when to quit. Sometimes I get on a roll and things go well for a while, then I start getting in a hurry and find myself wanting to take shortcuts. That's when I need to pack it up and walk away for a while, or I'll likely have mistakes to correct. Don't ask me how I know!!

Still Having Fun Anyway!!

Ampace
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Old Jun 19, 2004, 01:50 AM
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Not much progress today. I'm working on the wing center section. Have had to do some backtracking because of some mistakes, the most critical of which was gluing the center section outer ribs to the ends of the wings instead of saving them for the center section. This had to be undone and corrected before I could begin trying to fit the wing panels. I'm having to modify the wing center quite a bit from that for the Cub, to build in the Super Cub's larger skylight window in the top of the cabin. Think I'll do some extra strengthening of the wing center and attachment of the wings with some carbon fiber rod.

Before I proceed any farther on the center section, I have to decide whether I'm going to put two servos in the wing center, (one each for ailerons and flaps, operating the control surfaces with lightweight flexible pushrods), or just use a separate servo for each wing, out in the wing panel, with a single servo in the center section for the flaps. Any thoughts or suggestions about this? I want to keep the model as light as I can, without sacrificing functionality.

AmpAce
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Old Jun 20, 2004, 01:13 AM
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A little more progress on the Super Cub. Just glued the wing panels onto the center section tonight. Have deciced to use a separate servo out in the wing for each aileron. Safety reasons, simplicity, and the ability to more easily add some aileron differential if needed though programming were the main deciders. Got to thinking, if you lose an aileron servo, the plane will still fly with just one operational aileron. If you have just one aileron servo, and it gives up in some strange position, you are pretty much out of luck to bring her in all in one piece. Also, from reading about Pat Tritle's prototype, it sounds like this Cub may need a bit of aileron differential. For me this is much easier when I can program it on the radio rather than try to get it right fiddling with mechanical linkage things.

More later, maybe even some more pic's when I have something else complete enough to be of interest.

Ampace
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Old Jun 20, 2004, 08:49 AM
Big gov never Works
St. Martin's Avatar
Skunk Water, Rhode Island
Joined Jul 2002
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Show some pics, ampace

Steve
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Old Jun 21, 2004, 04:54 PM
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Neerpelt (Belgium)
Joined Jun 2003
110 Posts
*Whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii*

Just got a confirmation from Dare that they'll probably ship my piper this week. Since this is half a birthday present from my dad I promised him I would make this one to be replica of his Piper (yup, they landed with a flat tire).

One of the first questions that comes to my mind now, is there a manufacturer that sells a scale landing gear for the J-3 in scale 1/7? Robart's smallest is 1/5 so that's out of the question. Or are there any drawings or guides that could make me help my own? I'm a bit lazy about reverse-engineering the whole thing.

Happy flying!

bartje
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Last edited by bartje; Jun 21, 2004 at 04:58 PM.
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