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Old Jun 08, 2004, 11:38 PM
Quite a few, actually!
rektafew's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
108 Posts
Question
Corona w/Hacker Brushless ESC problem

I just installed a Hacker Master 40-3P ESC in my Corona with a Hacker C40-12T (both used). I soldered the ESC directly to the motor and use Sermos (Anderson powerpole) connectors to my CP2400 7-cell NiCDs. I run a stock 9 tooth pinion and 4 degree blade grips on the stock 13" balanced blades. I've set the ESC to Mode 1 (normal control) and tried timing modes 1 and 2. Bottom line is IT WON'T LIFT OFF! All servos are correct and I am spinning counter-clockwise. ;-) The pinion isn't binding as I've repositioned it a number of times.

When I first spin up I can go full throttle and I can barely move the tail. More interesting is that after throttleup to full speed the ESC will "shut down" the motor. I have to pull the stick off and then throttleup again to restart only to have it do the same thing again.

I'm wondering if I'm drawing too much current causing the shutdown (I notice both the motor and ESC are untouchably hot after a minute or so of the on-off-on-off debacle). I know the speed control works as I have a video of it running another motor and the motor is almost brand new.

Any thoughts? I don't have a brushed motor/ESC since this was purchased used sans motor. I do know that it was bought from a reputable source and flew fine with the same type motor and CC45 ESC with the previous owner.

Thanks in advance!
Brian
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Last edited by rektafew; Jun 08, 2004 at 11:53 PM.
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Old Jun 09, 2004, 12:53 AM
the other, other dave
S.F bay area
Joined Sep 2002
795 Posts
hummm hate to say it but it sounds like the 40-3p has a problem...

are your batterys heating up too?
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Old Jun 09, 2004, 01:41 AM
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aau007's Avatar
Los Angeles, California
Joined Apr 2002
923 Posts
rektafew,

Take the motor off and spin the shaft with your hand. If it has some rough metal noise, then you may have a bearing binding problem. Remember I told you I sent my C40 in for service? That was for a bearing replacement.

If both your motor and ESC are extremely hot, it may explain your shut down at full throttle.
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Old Jun 09, 2004, 08:52 AM
Im flying... don't talk!
helisfreak's Avatar
Arizona, USA
Joined Mar 2004
2,695 Posts
First time heard Hacker got problem... ... Please don't tell me even Hacker have problem.. .... Because they're the big brother... I was looking forward to buy some stuff from the big brother...

Pretty much you're having the same problem as me... but im running on astro 020 and cc35... and my thing would get hot to... super hot... but at least it hoover 6-8 feet up max. But I do believe the cost of my problem is my battery, can't afford a good battery yet. Anyway.... when you said no tail power .. do you mean the main is spining fast or not? You might want to tight the screw on the tail shaft pinion.... sometime it losen... and the tail will spin slow if you increase pitch....

And the other thing someone post in my thread is that a BENDED tail boom can cause lot of friction.... draw more amp and lose power...

Well.. did you ever run a test on your motor... if i were you.. i will go look at hackerbrushless.com spec on the C40-12T .... and stick a Propeller on it... and run it.. and refer to the specs they have.. and see if the motor and esc will have problem running the props... that the best I can think of... (just thought of it.. .i will do the same with mine...
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Old Jun 09, 2004, 10:33 AM
Quite a few, actually!
rektafew's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
108 Posts
Just to update, I removed the motor and checked for any binding by hand (it spins smoothly) and then spun it up with a small prop. It does the same thing. Namely, there is a slight hesitation when you first apply throttle (may be some kind of throttled startup on the ESC) but as it spins up it finally reaches it's maximum RPM (well below what I think it should be by listening to it) and then it shuts down. Both the ESC and the Motor get hot.

Possibly a bad motor, I'll check with the previous owner and see if he experienced anything like this. Kinda frustrating though. I bought the Hacker after reading all the posts and like Helisfreak referenced, I paid a premium (even used) for it. The only other thing that I can think of is that I soldered the ESC to the Hacker without any type of sleeving. Just wire to wire and I could possibly have a cold joint although I doubt that would cause this.

I'm going to check with the LHS and see if they have a "test brushless" that I can try to use the age-old "process of elimination".

It's seems just like I have the motor timing heavily retarded and it overheats and shuts down. I appreciate any and all advice (outside of sarcasm).

Thanks all.
Brian
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Old Jun 09, 2004, 11:46 AM
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aau007's Avatar
Los Angeles, California
Joined Apr 2002
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If possible, put a WhattMeter on it and see how many amps it is pulling. It takes a lot of guessing work out of it.
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Old Jun 09, 2004, 05:12 PM
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Sounds like LVC. Are you sure the battery is taking a charge?
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Old Jun 09, 2004, 06:23 PM
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Los Angeles, California
Joined Apr 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred Bronk
Sounds like LVC. Are you sure the battery is taking a charge?
But that won't explain the heat up of the motor AND esc.
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Old Jun 09, 2004, 06:46 PM
Im flying... don't talk!
helisfreak's Avatar
Arizona, USA
Joined Mar 2004
2,695 Posts
But someone said that a bad battery will cause all kind of problem... ... I think that my situation to..

The best thing to do is call hacker.. ... and send it back to them...
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Old Jun 09, 2004, 07:11 PM
the other, other dave
S.F bay area
Joined Sep 2002
795 Posts
ok without any sarcasm... pitch the hacker esc and use a cc 35 or 45.. theres is not much anything could go wrong with the motor but many things can be wrong with the esc.,. if I were to guess i would say a bad fet in the esc
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Old Jun 09, 2004, 07:11 PM
Quite a few, actually!
rektafew's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
108 Posts
The saga continues....

I called Hacker and they suggested I send the pair into them. Said it would take about one and 1/2 weeks. He wasn't sure what it might be, since it heats up so fast. I'm reluctant to keep trying things since both ESC and Motor get hot pretty fast and i don't want testing to ruin the good part also . It amazes me but when I queried all the LHSs here in Tulsa, no one seemed to know what to say, and the only motors and ESCs were smaller ones for cars. Oh well. I'm glad RCGroups is here. Anyone have a brushless ESC or Hacker they want to sell cheap so I can figure out which one is bad? I'd prefer to just do this myself via process of elimination rather than wait on Hacker to do it.

Also the batterys are charging just fine as I have a new Triton and can watch the milliamps and voltage. I wish I had a way to gauge current draw on the heli when I'm trying this. I think Allen may have something relating to the amps I'm pulling. That would certainly account for the heat.

Thanks!

Dyin' to be flyin' Brian
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Old Jun 09, 2004, 07:19 PM
Quite a few, actually!
rektafew's Avatar
Tulsa, OK
Joined May 2004
108 Posts
No sarcasm taken, Dave. Thanks and yes the Field Effect Transistor could be suspect if I hadn't seen it work beforehand. Generally discreet circuitry goes south due to major spikes or thermal related events and even though this thing becomes a "thermocouple" after a minute, it is exhibiting the same charcteristics it did first time I spun it up. Although your assumption is certainly plausible. Anyone have a CC45 for sale? I was apprehensive of the Castle ESC after reading a number of "cutout" and "fell from the sky" posts.

I really appreciate everyone's help.
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Old Jun 09, 2004, 07:27 PM
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Los Angeles, California
Joined Apr 2002
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Best to send the pair into Hacker. Their costs are reasonable and they are close to you. Last time I sent in my C40 for service, they did it in one day after receiving. Trying to spend more money to do process of elimination can be time consuming and at the end, you need to get rid of the excess equipment and possibly lose some money on the buy/sell process.

hubdave, you seem to be very sure that it is an ESC problem, which I have nothing to dispute with. However, can you explain how a bad ESC with the described symptoms can cause the motor to heat to beyond reasonable? I do not have any personal experience in this particular situation.
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Old Jun 09, 2004, 08:56 PM
the other, other dave
S.F bay area
Joined Sep 2002
795 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aau007
Best to send the pair into Hacker. Their costs are reasonable and they are close to you. Last time I sent in my C40 for service, they did it in one day after receiving. Trying to spend more money to do process of elimination can be time consuming and at the end, you need to get rid of the excess equipment and possibly lose some money on the buy/sell process.

hubdave, you seem to be very sure that it is an ESC problem, which I have nothing to dispute with. However, can you explain how a bad ESC with the described symptoms can cause the motor to heat to beyond reasonable? I do not have any personal experience in this particular situation.

Nope I cant explain why the motor gets too hot ...only that I had the very same thing happen and it turned out to be the esc....
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Old Jun 09, 2004, 09:00 PM
the other, other dave
S.F bay area
Joined Sep 2002
795 Posts
I was apprehensive of the Castle ESC after reading a number of "cutout" and "fell from the sky" posts.


yeah in fact I had made one of those posts.. it was the old crazy 8 problem the 25's had for a while.. I run 2 phx-45s , one is for a c40-12t and the other on a c40-13t, been very good performers for me.

hope you get your problem solved soon!
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