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Old May 26, 2004, 01:08 PM
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gbarc's Avatar
Jackson, Michigan, United States
Joined Nov 2002
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7mm Super Slicks Car Pager Motors!!

I had posted earlie that i had found a new pager motor with promising results. Well the jury is in and i do believe we have a winner!

Specs:20mm long (shaft to end)
7.5 or 8mm in dia
2 motors in a pack-Red cap rated at 22,000 rpm unloaded and the oranged cap 19,000.
OHMs: Damn, i knew i forgot somethin'!
Name of motors/ company-SuperSlicks. WWW.SUPERSLICKS.COM
Found at TOYS R US.
Price:$7.50

Performance: I put the red motor in a biplane(specs to follow in working pager planes) geared 9:1.15cm prop(homemade) RFFS-100 rx. 145mah battery.4mm motor for rudder control. Flight times 20 minute plus depending on fun factor.

I know this isn't the traditional 6mm type motor.But they're a great subsitute.


Greg
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Old May 26, 2004, 02:28 PM
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Dave Wulff's Avatar
USA, FL, Fort Lauderdale
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Greg,

Could be good news! Besides ohms, what does it weigh?

Dave
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Old May 26, 2004, 02:56 PM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
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Greg, I had the same thought at Dave, but someone came into my office and I stopped typing. The Didel 7x17mm motor weighs 2.7g. For comparison a M20 weighs about 3.8g and the Didel 4.5 ohm 6mm weighs 1.32g. Is your measurement of 20mm including the entire shaft? Generally we measure the length of the body. So, the motor to compare this one to may be the M20, depending on what it weighs. Still it sounds interesting, sort of a larger BitClone motor, hopefully with lower resistance than 10 ohms. I wonder if it is coreless or traditional.

Can you weigh it and measure resistance and post the results? Good find. Hope it works out.

Gordon
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Last edited by Gordon Johnson; May 26, 2004 at 03:02 PM.
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Old May 26, 2004, 04:05 PM
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gbarc's Avatar
Jackson, Michigan, United States
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Actually,Gordon i suspect this motor to be a clone of the Didel 7mmx17mm(in fact i'm almost positive). I'll double check size and ohms and post them tommorrow.

Greg
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Old May 26, 2004, 04:13 PM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
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Greg,
It could be. I've looked at that MFG's site many times and they don't list any 7mm pagers in low ohms, and have indicated that the 7mm may be going away. In fact, I asked Didel to ask the MFG if they had any low ohm 7mm motors and the answer was no.

Radio Shack sells some cars with larger motors, that may be the same as these (can't remember exactly). I saw them when I bought ZipZap motors for the 6mm pager test article. But, I was focused on 6mm at the time.

So, these might be from a different company, or they might not be coreless. It's hard to say. But, there does seem to be a trend towards some BitChar-G type of cars in moderately larger sizes. And, when toy MFG's want a slightly larger motor, then we can get them.

Looking forward to your measurements tomorrow.

Gordon
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Old May 26, 2004, 06:26 PM
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jberg's Avatar
MSC Rödinghausen, Germany
Joined Feb 2001
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Greg,

would you mind to apply the motor measurement methods to these motors that I have written about in the Indoor Story and tell us the results? If there are questions I would be glad to help.

Regards, Jochen
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Old May 27, 2004, 08:37 AM
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gbarc's Avatar
Jackson, Michigan, United States
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O.k here some more stuff.....weight: just under 3 grams with my mechanical scale so it would be safe to say the 2.7 grams Gordon had mentioned would be accurate.
Resistance:Red cap 2.3ohms Orange cap 3.5ohms.
Last nite i played with different homemade props to see whats the optimal size. I found that for my purposes i can safely swing a 6" prop.I flew outside in a slight breeze for 17 min 35 sec before i really noticed any big losses in power.I know it's not the most techy method but it was fun!
I will try and post more info such as thrust,watts,etc...but i use alot of TLAR and does it move my curtains methods.

Greg
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Old May 27, 2004, 09:21 AM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
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Greg,
Thanks for the info. I too flew outside last night in a very slight breeze with my Pager Citabria.

Gordon
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Old May 27, 2004, 09:28 AM
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Jackson, Michigan, United States
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No problem....heck you've given so much information i'm just glad i could add a little.Currently i'm working on two more projects based on this motor. A rogallo wing with a twist and a canard model based on some 1917 plans. I will post them soon along with my bipe , Pearse monoplane, and "sorta" Antoinette.

Greg
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Old May 27, 2004, 10:20 AM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
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Greg,
The larger size cars Radio Shack sells do not use this 7mm motor. I just checked at my local store and they use a much larger motor, like a Johnson motor. Toys R Us claims that these Superslicks cars are an exclusive with them and also a new item. I just ordered a couple of these hop-up kits. If I'm near a Toys R Us this weekend I'll pick up one in person. Anyway, by sometime next week I should have some of these motors and then we can compare notes.

Again, good find.

Gordon
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Old May 29, 2004, 11:51 PM
in persuit of low wing loading
Gordon Johnson's Avatar
Boston, Mass
Joined May 2001
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Greg,
While running errands today I swung by a Toys R Us and picked up one of the hopup kits with these motors. First, here are a couple of observations.

The bearing where the shaft exits the front is different on these than the Didel 7mm pager. Also, the Didel has a plastic retainer that keeps the shaft from slipping back inside. If it does it hits inside and makes considerable noise. These motors don't seem to do this.

Next, these have pretty powerful magnets and want to stick together, like the Didel 4.5 ohm pager does. The Didel 7mm pager does not stick to other motors.

The Red 2.3 ohm motor is listed at 22,000 rpm, the orange 3.3 ohm motor is listed at 19,000 rmp, and a third green motor is listed at 14,000 rpm. I could not find the green motor sold separately and am guessing it is what comes in the car. My guess is it is still a hotter wind than the 10 ohm Didel.

I've been gradually measuring motor constants for all the micro motors using Jochen's method. Eventually I'll put these and more up on my web site. But, here are what I measured for these 7mm motors, and the Didel 4.5 ohm pager and three different M20's for comparison.

The Orange motor puts out 0.79 watts at max power compared to the 4.5 ohm pager's 0.64 watts. It puts out 23% more watts with 20% more amps (although the 6mm pager was for 3.6 volts). The Orange motor also puts out its max power at a much lower rpm. But, the 7mm motor weighs 1.38g more. At max power it's amp draw is equal to the ET-90 cell's max capability. So, with this cell flights would be pretty short, only several minutes at full throttle.

The hotter red motor puts out 1.11 watts at max power. This is most comparable to the M20-MV with the exact same watts of output. Amp draw is also virtually the same. Efficience is marginally higher with the red motor. And, it develops its max power at a 14% higher rpm. The Red motor, however, weighs about 1g less. It looks like the red motor is essentially a slight more efficient and slightly lighter equivalent to a M20-MV motor. The amp draw at max power indicates this motor would be used with the Kokam 145 or equivalent, not the ET-90.

This is a neat motor. Thanks for finding it.

[edit: revised the table to include the "short" CIK M20 for comparison.

[edit 9/7/04: added purple and green motors as well as Didel 7mm]

[edit 9/28/04: The green motor probably has a typo for amp draw at max efficiency. I need to double check its values. Ignore the ones in the table for this motor for now.

Gordon
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Last edited by Gordon Johnson; Sep 29, 2004 at 08:32 AM.
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Old May 30, 2004, 09:37 AM
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Allan Wright's Avatar
Lee, NH, USA
Joined Jun 2001
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Nice, and available at your local toy store too. Great find! If we can get someone to make up a 7mm commercial gearbox, I'd use this over the KP-00 unit for sure. (wonders if Falcon is listening)
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Old May 30, 2004, 12:16 PM
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Wow, that sounds pretty good. I read that the transmitter for the car needs a 9 volt battery. Have you looked at the performance of the radio, as in how long is the range, how light, actuators or servos, wheter porportional or not, and what kind of battery. I am interested in converting this type of car using all of its parts. Thanks.
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Old May 30, 2004, 12:17 PM
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Jackson, Michigan, United States
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Great info Gordon!!! Now let me add to this. The red motor works very well with the 145mah li-poly.However the red motor on an etec 90 does yield some very surprising results. Yes the flight time are shorter with full thrust( about 4 1/2 minutes) but with the right set up you can do basic acrobatics. I found this out quite by accident with my 15 gram "sorta antoinette" I made this thing hover. Now mind you this plane is NOT designed for this yet i manage to do it(don't ask me how...i'm still in shock) So with that being said i'm working on some type of "acrobatic" model. Maybe an ultimate? Anyhoo...the etec-90 not stressed will provide 10 minutes outside. Way more for a floater type model and good throttle managment. More updates to follow.As a side note i geared the "sorta" 9:1 with a 13 cm "slurpy" cup prop.

Greg
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Old May 30, 2004, 01:23 PM
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Baron Johnson's Avatar
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Anyone bought the purple motor? It comes in a seperate hop-up kit, but is rated higher... 28,000 RPM or so if I remember correctly.
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