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Old Jan 08, 2002, 08:59 PM
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KAMarks's Avatar
Louisville,KY
Joined Jan 2001
135 Posts
Eurofighter 2000 / offshore

I have a set of plans for Offshores Euro 2000. This will be my first jet and would like some help / advice. Since all the instructions are in German it makes it a little difficult. What is the normal wing construction? (Foam with fiberglass or balsa). Are the wing flat or do they have negative dihedral? What thickness balsa sheeting is normally used for the fuse?
Thanks
Ken
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Old Jan 08, 2002, 09:14 PM
Scott Black, Montreal
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montreal quebec Canada
Joined Sep 1999
1,254 Posts
I have seen some of those plans. They basically sell you 3 CNC formers and say "cover it with sheeting and sand away anything that doesn't look like a EuroFighter!". I can't believe they didn't tell you what sheeting or dihedral to use!

I would think that if this is for a 480 fan, i.e. it is a reasonably small plane, go for 1/16 light balsa on the fuse and make the wing out of foam with 1/32 contest sheeting. There is no need to add dihedral on a delta. The sweep performs the same function. You certainly would not want negative dihedral on a low wing airplane.

You've picked a challenging subject. I hope you are a good scratch builder and can work out all the little technical details for yourself. I think these plans are terrible, especially for the money. However, most of the designs themselves are pretty good flyers from what I have seen. But they basically leave all the engineering up to the builder - nothing is explained. I don't see how they can take your money yet give you so little in return. YOu might as well just go get a 3 view off the net and start there. Also, if they want to sell them here, it isn't like the instructions are 20 pages long. They could translate them. Good luck!

sb
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Old Jan 08, 2002, 10:58 PM
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Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
KAMarks, as Mr. Offshore (Claus Franken) points out, they are NOT for the beginner. He clearly states that his plans & formers are just a <i> help </i> in developing your own scale model - take it or leave it.

There have been extensive discussions on the Offshore plans in the German forum, there are many models as well - so it is hard for me to summarize the points of the various discussions. It is generally agreed that most fly well, once you get around the building stage.

Some are older designs (MiG-15, P-80) and some are brand new. It is my personal impression that the newer ones are better designed. The Eurofighter is a brand new design, quite large and challenging since it's a twin (MF480 cut down to 66mm).

I have built the <A href=http://aeneas.ps.uci.edu/edf/mig31/mig-31_n4.jpg> MiG-31 </A> and now the <A href=http://aeneas.ps.uci.edu/edf/mig29/p1060001.jpg> MiG-29 </A>. I have compared the MiG-29 plans to 3-d views of the original, and I can attest that overall it's very close to scale.

The plans are quite nice, well thought out & nicely drawn, the instructions are fairly detailed - but unfortunately in German. The formers are usually quite a few (12 for the MiG-29 for example) and very precisely cut. The fit of the formers with each other and with the stringers & sheeting is good too - and usually well thought out.

<img src=http://aeneas.ps.uci.edu/edf/mig29/pc240001.jpg width=400 height=300>

The wings are foam sheeted with balsa (the foam cores can be obtained in Germany from HS Flaechenservice), I had to make <A href=http://aeneas.ps.uci.edu/edf/mig29/pc250009.jpg> my own </A>, the plans will I think clearly show a dihedral if there is one.

The balsa sheeting for the fuse varies, it's indicated - in mm - in the instructions & plans (at least in mine, usually 1.5mm for fuse top & thicker 2mm for the bottom. I even used different sheeting thicknesses for top & bottom of wings.

If you are lucky they will possibly develop into good flying & sharp looking models, but keep in mind that you don't get much more than a plan & getting it to fly decently can be a challenge...
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Old Jan 09, 2002, 05:38 AM
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Louisville,KY
Joined Jan 2001
135 Posts
Thanks for the insight. I agree that they a really just 3-d views with a little former info. The plan is a little confusing on the dihedral. It shows the tip section about a inch below the root section. They may tell you everything in the instruction manual however every word I look up in the german-english dictionary is not there. Sadly there are no dimensions on the plan. Maybe I'll start with a KC F-18 to get the feel of constucting a EDFbefore tackling this beast.

Ken
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Old Jan 09, 2002, 08:44 AM
Purple power
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shadow hills,ca
Joined Apr 2000
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Quote:
Originally posted by KAMarks
Maybe I'll start with a KC F-18 to get the feel of constucting a EDFbefore tackling this beast.

Ken
good idea...............gregg
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Old Jan 09, 2002, 10:15 AM
Dude, where's My Plane?
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Green Lane PA USA
Joined Mar 2001
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I know the Germans are some ED Fing fools, "thats a compliment BTW" but I have a hard time understanding how in this day and age of Internet commerce that Offshore dose not have an English side to there site and no English instructions. I know we in the US are very spoiled to having others meet our needs,,,, but hey,,, this is where alot of $$$ comes from , and sellers should try to meet there customers needs. It just dose not seem like a very big effort for Off shore to go through to translate this stuff. Especillay with all the trouble they are having geting hard Euro currency deployed they should be concerting there E commerce efforts ie pay pal.
Dont they see all the US hits on there web server and links from this site ?
Oh well, maybe someday Ill learn German.
I dont know how through the instructons are but just imagine how hard it would be to build an easy building kit with lots of illistrations like the KC F-18 if you could not read the instructions.
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Old Jan 09, 2002, 10:21 AM
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Kelowna,BC Canada
Joined Oct 2001
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by KAMarks
Maybe I'll start with a KC F-18 to get the feel of constucting a EDFbefore tackling this beast.

Ken


That is what I am doing as well, instead of scratch-building my Lockheed U-2R that I want. I ordered my KC F-18 yesterday.


JasonJ

Did you get your Berkut for Xmas?
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Old Jan 09, 2002, 10:30 AM
Dude, where's My Plane?
JasonJ's Avatar
Green Lane PA USA
Joined Mar 2001
2,167 Posts
Dohhhhhh!

Nawwww I didnt get it,,,,,
I did get a $50 check to use on EDF stuff,,,, but I dont know if Ill get the SU 37 or not. I already bit the brushless bullet and would probably have to do it again to doubble up for the SU-37,,,,,,,, still,,,, It is wearing heavy on my mind,,,,, like an evil vice,,, at nigt just in the moments between sleep and wake, I think I here it calling me from across the great Atlantic,,,,,,,, pause,,, sigh,,,, but alass, I cant here what it is syaing cause its in GERMAN!!!!!
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Old Jan 09, 2002, 11:25 AM
Lithium Member
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Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by JasonJ
....a lot of $$$ comes from , and sellers should try to meet there customers needs. It just does not seem like a very big effort for Offshore to go through to translate this stuff...
Claus Franken's english is quite minimal I believe, and he does this hobby stuff on the side, ie in the evening. During the day he is a professional engineer... We should be thankful to Franken's & Gloeckner's ingenuity that such (tested) kits exist at all...

More than one successful kit started from the Offshore plans (Rafale, ...)

Offshore Rafale, during building

<img src=http://home.t-online.de/home/Sebastian.Scheinig/herzog/rafale1.jpg>

New EJF Rafale composite,

<img src=http://www.electricjetfactory.com/gallery/rafcmp2.jpg>
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Old Jan 09, 2002, 12:50 PM
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Kelowna,BC Canada
Joined Oct 2001
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Herb

Dude...you are a EDF building machine!
Tell me...where do you keep all these wonderful planes after they are built??

You must have a huge garage/ house....or a backyard hangar
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Old Jan 09, 2002, 01:05 PM
Dude, where's My Plane?
JasonJ's Avatar
Green Lane PA USA
Joined Mar 2001
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Oh Herb, I am not ungreatfull, I hope I didnt come off like I was flaming them or anyting, I just think even if it is part time (spelled full time effort part time pay ) he would want to maximize his efforts, why not make the most $ of what he already has. I am just saying I think the translations would be alot less effort than the development of the semi kits has already been,, but I have never done anyting like that either.
Maybe a fellow E-zoner could do the translations, I am sure either the seller or the end buyer would glady pay the considerations for the basic plans, instructions much less a full build documentation with picks of the thing. You know what I mean, Like say hey Claus, kick me a kit and Ill build it and do the documentation in Dutch and English up for you or just do it and offer it for sale on the zone.
Sorry if I implied any ingraditude in my suggestons or opinion. I am sure some day I will have the SU-27, 37 and maybe even Mig-29 in my hanger. I love the looks and quality of the jets.
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Old Jan 09, 2002, 01:18 PM
Lithium Member
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Irvine, Calif USA
Joined Feb 1999
12,176 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by LawnDart
Herb
..you are a EDF building machine!
Sorry I don't have either one of those, the top is from a German modeler, the bottom one is Robert's...
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Old Jan 09, 2002, 03:35 PM
Cees Kraaijeveld's Avatar
Barendrecht, Netherlands
Joined May 2001
131 Posts
Hi guys,

if you're having problems with certain german expressions or details, I sure want to help you.......and...it's free!!

cees
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