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Old May 16, 2004, 04:47 PM
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Why an EPP flying wing is best for beginners

A flying wing can dive nose first into cement all day long, keep its shape and keep flying.

If motorized the motor is in the rear so it does not touch the ground when the plane crashed saving your motor, props, time and money.

When a wing tip hits the ground it does not act like a lever snapping the fuselage or breaking somewhere near it.
The flying wing will tumble. You just pick it up and keep flying.

Tailed airplanes with dihedral are often recommended because they do not require a radio with mixing or a $12 mixer from GWS for elevons, self upright, and are usually setup with easy pitch control.

This sounds okay but typically you get stuck with a cheap radio that does not have mixing, a 3 toss broken plane with non-industry standard receiver or frequency and servos. Then you decide its fun and get a hitec radio and a less dinky plane.

When a newbie I was explained how a wing was better for learning-
especially a glider because you learn to fly on the wing not the propeller.

Since then I've seen many many beginners walk away with broken tailed airplanes after just one or two tosses!

I liked learning with the wings so much I eventually made my own light weight flying wings just for light conditions. It turns out that with the light weight they have even less mass so they lightly bounce off things and everything still works!
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Old May 16, 2004, 05:10 PM
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North GA, USA
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Good thing you stressed EPP there. Many a non-EPP wing has suffered a premature death at the hands of a beginner pilot. My father learned on a Zagi 400 (not X). By the time he learned how to avoid light poles and terra firma, the nose had a lifetime's worth of wrinkles. He caught on quick enough though; the Zagi still flies. In fact, it flew this morning.

On the other hand, non-wing EPP models seem to be pretty durable too. Heck, even some plastic & foam ones do well. I've slammed my Fighterbird into a utility meter at full throttle during takeoff; short of a prop bite that a little piece of packing tape fixed and a couple scratches on the fuselage, it came away unhurt. I dare not imagine what some of my other airplanes would have looked like after that kind of an incident.

I could go either way, but would probably recommend a traditional model for a beginner. It would depend on whether or not I thought they could handle the steeper learning curve of a tail-less model. Sim time is without doubt a must for flying wings if piloting solo (no instructor and buddy box). In contrast, I solo'd on a Soarstar with no help around and zero sim time; not the best way to go by any means, but I did fine and never crashed. I guess I was just lucky.

Wings
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Old May 16, 2004, 05:30 PM
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Heh heh
Thats my point-
the tailed plane has a steeper destruction curve that far outweighs the proposed shorter learning curve.
I think it is really over rated and the tailed plane learning curve is only a few seconds ahead
All that is moot when the plane breaks apart after a few crashes.

Just sharing my opinion I was curious to see what people may say.

I agree sims are best.
FMS is great and so are the leading ones that come with sticks.
Just love the durability of flying wings. Not trying to take sides
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Old May 16, 2004, 06:05 PM
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The biggest downside to learning with a flying wing is visual orientation. It is easier to see the airplane side view "attitude" of a conventional fuselage. The wing dihedral (flat V-shape) in a conventional design also make them more stable flyers.

Images: Zagi Fixx - Park Shark
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Old May 16, 2004, 06:31 PM
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I think most newbies want a plane that looks like a plane. How many Zagi-style aircraft do you see on the runway?
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Old May 16, 2004, 07:16 PM
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Joined Mar 2002
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That's why the S&B Komet is such a great plane - it has all the benefits of an EPP wing, but looks great. Mine flies much better than my Combat Wing (same motor but the Komet is much faster and more aerodynamic).

http://www.sbrcmodels.com/

Peter
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Old May 16, 2004, 07:41 PM
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Eugene, Oregon, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Young
That's why the S&B Komet is such a great plane - it has all the benefits of an EPP wing, but looks great. Mine flies much better than my Combat Wing (same motor but the Komet is much faster and more aerodynamic).

Peter
Yeah that's a great beginners plane! Also if your pic was 800 X 600 we wouldn't have to scroll to see it and read your post!
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Old May 16, 2004, 08:19 PM
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Joined Feb 2004
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Looks fine at 1990x1440... need to upgrade to 22"+ monitor.

I keep putting off getting an EPP flying wing (Xe2 or Unicorn), and the durability is a great plus! However, a good beginner plane should be really easy to fly since many n00bs tend to spaz out at the controls the first couple of times out.

I've found my slow stick isn't all that durable (not bad because of reinforcements but nothing like these all EPP models), but anyone can learn to keep it in the air and "land" (bring it down w/o damage) within 5 mins. Its slow, its stable, and you let go of the controls and it flies on its own.

On the topic though... what is the easiest wing to learn on, if someone were to go this route?
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Old May 16, 2004, 08:27 PM
Been There! Done That!
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Eugene, Oregon, United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducman69
Looks fine at 1990x1440... need to upgrade to 22"+ monitor.

I keep putting off getting an EPP flying wing (Xe2 or Unicorn), and the durability is a great plus! However, a good beginner plane should be really easy to fly since many n00bs tend to spaz out at the controls the first couple of times out.

I've found my slow stick isn't all that durable (not bad because of reinforcements but nothing like these all EPP models), but anyone can learn to keep it in the air and "land" (bring it down w/o damage) within 5 mins. Its slow, its stable, and you let go of the controls and it flies on its own.

On the topic though... what is the easiest wing to learn on, if someone were to go this route?
I run a 21" monitor but some of us don't like to use a magnifying glass to read the print on the monitor! How many people on this Forum do you think are even running a 21" monitor??!! Get real!
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Old May 16, 2004, 11:35 PM
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aeropal- nice blue foamie!

pete- looks durable, alright!

rutat-
Zagis don't have wheels so thats why they aren't on the runway
I have a simple design for attaching a wheel to a flying wing.
It takes less than 5 min to adapt and it takes off from the runway!

Flying wing runway fun

D69- Easiest wing for learning is the Slofly because you can toss it outside your house and learn fly, do loops, rolls and catches or slope it on light days. It won't break and the throws can always be set more advanced to grow with your abilities.

So far everyone who has bought one is quite pleased.
Check out the Slofly rcgroups thread
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Old May 17, 2004, 12:10 AM
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Try this experiment Steve. Show a kid a wing, a P51 and a Cessna. What order will they choose to fly them in?
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Old May 17, 2004, 01:43 AM
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Thats an old experiment with the same outcome each time.
After the kids get done laughing at the Cessna and saying the P51 looks cool but they don't want to break it they will choose the EPP flying wing.

How can they resist after seeing it hit light posts and keep going.
Next they chase it with their hands and yell for more low passes.

Tailed planes have more breaking points and parts with extreme leverage over them. I have not seen any videos of tailed planes surviving 20mph + nose dives or 45 degree wing tip smashes and fly away from it. Is there one?
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Old May 17, 2004, 04:02 AM
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This old debate just keeps on coming round again. Should first planes be built to assume failure on the part of the learner or success ? I prefer a first plane that flies well rather than one that crashes well. The learners I deal with are hoping to learn to fly not learn to crash.

All the EPP wings I've tried have been heavy, twitchy, fly too fast and difficult to follow because of the odd shape. I always assume that they are made of something like EPP precisely because the manufacturer wants to make sure that, even though they're pigs for a learner to fly, at least when you've failed, as you inevitably will, you can get right back up and have another go .

Steve
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Old May 17, 2004, 04:23 AM
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Eugene, Oregon, United States
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Well said Steve! I feel a student of mine that keeps crashing is a failure on my part and I sure don't want him flying something that bounces well as training him to crash is not my way of teaching! I have several wings but as a beginners plane?
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Old May 17, 2004, 08:56 AM
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What I think you'll see is more Arcel/Elapro/EPP etc. "regular" planes coming out. SO much for wings being "best-first". I think wings are cool for sure, but not a beginner "plane".

(BTW, have you tried those Walmart wings compared to say an Air Hog intruder?)
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