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Old May 08, 2004, 06:29 PM
I am M I G H T Y !
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Ipswich, England
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Question
UK new boater to ALL POINTS : MICRO Rigger plans?

Hi folks,
I've only ever had a presence on the Ezone (electric Indoor Flight and Parkflyers) but recently I've been bitten by the electric boat bug in a BAAAD way!

It all started when I bumped into the Micro Hydros site and lusted after some of the itty bitty wake makers therein.

I have a load of 3mm charcoal gray Depron. I will be getting 20 sheets of 1200mmX800mmX6mm Depron in the next week or so, hopefully.

[b]QUESTIONS[b/]
Does anyone have any plans for S280/S300/S400 Micro Out Riggers or basically constructed Hydroplanes?
Does anyone have any duff micro hulls that I could cut my teeth on?
Does anyone have any UK sources for micro boat hardware?

I have had an idea for a boat for some time...Maybe I could get some feedback whether or not it's viable:

I'd like to take one of the tiny GWS motors (from the GWS IPS indoor/parkflyer gearbox unit), a 6-7 cell 300 or 720 NimH pack, GWS ICS100 ESC and stick it into an outrigger of approx 9inches in length.

My main uncertainty is with the prop type (2 or 3 blade) and blade pitch.

ANY help will be greatly appreciated!

Steve Wrona
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Old May 09, 2004, 12:33 AM
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Steve,Ive posted some of my micro hulls on microhydros.com
a 9" rigger sounds neat!.The set up you stated in your post sounds just fine.
I would use the gws motor without the gearbox & run it direct drive.Hardare can be easily made from brass stock(tubing,flatbar).Octura makes a X427 two blade prop which would have to be cut down but would work sucessfully.
have you seen Doug Forresters Hydromite??.It is a great micro boat.Cheers!.
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Old May 09, 2004, 02:25 AM
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Asturias, Spain
Joined Mar 2001
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There are some free rigger plans on http://new.intlwaters.com/boatplans2.htm but they'll need to be scaled down for what you have in mind. The Graupner series of carbon props go down to 27 mm and are 2 mm threaded at this size, easier to cut down and much cheaper than the bronze. CG just aft of sponsoons. At 9" length, it should make bath nights amusing - but careful with the prop
PS your best UK source is http://www.astecmodels.co.uk/ , but on sub 400 size, you're really in uncharted territory.
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Last edited by martin richards; May 09, 2004 at 02:28 AM.
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Old May 09, 2004, 04:33 AM
I am M I G H T Y !
Steve Wrona's Avatar
Ipswich, England
Joined Feb 2001
486 Posts
Thanks Martin and Reaper!

I've been looking at the Astec site and also back at Micro Hydros and, well, I don't think I realise just how small a S400 rigger can be!

Just this morning I was looking at a few hulls of various description and design that were powered by S400 motors and were each well under 14"!

A worry for me is that I will get that GWS DD 9-inch outrigger built and it will be slower than the speed of smell!

Well...I've got A LOT to learn about boats!

Cheers again!

Steve
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Old May 09, 2004, 04:57 AM
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Asturias, Spain
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Steve, riggers are about the most difficult type of boat to set up for optimum performance. With the very small size you envisage, this is going to be worse. Imagine an indoor pylon racer type You can get good performance, though not as fast as a well set up rigger, from 400 types in a mono or catamaran hull. I've a scratch built 14" cat that gives me about 10' on 7 Sanyo 1100 AEL's and that's fast enough for my advanced years. One thing to watch out for is weight. Though not as critical as planes, keeping the weight of 400 types to around 16-20 oz does help. I'd guess that a ball park figure of half that would be needed for the GWS set up.
The leaning process sure is fun
PS your web site won't all fit on my screen. both products and search functions of your home page fall off the edges.
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Old May 09, 2004, 05:25 PM
I am M I G H T Y !
Steve Wrona's Avatar
Ipswich, England
Joined Feb 2001
486 Posts
Thanks again Martin!

Maybe then I need to be looking at a more easy-on-the-newbie type hull...
Any suggestions?

To be honest: I was going to rigger route as it appeared to me to be a very easy boat to build.
1. Slab sided.
2. No compound curves. Just simple swoops for the sponsons and fore section.
3. Im new to this and 1 & 2 are quite attractive in a 1st boat project!

Re #2 above:
I cant seem to get my head around how a V or Deep V hull is constructed. Again, thats why I was going towards the rigger! lol

Hopefully I will be able to chronacle my first build here!

Steve
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Old May 09, 2004, 05:27 PM
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Ipswich, England
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[QUOTE=martin richards]I've a scratch built 14" cat that gives me about 10' on 7 Sanyo 1100 AEL's and that's fast enough for my advanced years. /QUOTE]


10' of what?

Steve
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Old May 10, 2004, 02:37 AM
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Steve: There are plans for downloading on the microhydros and intlwaters websites and Traplet has a lot for sale as well. My cat however was eyeballed from plans and photo's I'd seen. I'm definately not the best builder but it came out all right. I used balsa but I can't see any big difficulties with depron and it may even be easier with no need for stringers.
Basically the deckless hull was built by making the two sponsoons seperately each with two formers only over the 3mm hull tunnel form: one at the stern and another about the length mid point. Then with 1.5 mm balsa I let the curvature sort itself out on the sponsoon sides and bottom. I then joned the sponsoons with a reinforced transom and bottom. The deck was then built on top and a hatch made, with hopefully a watertight seal.
The c/g will need to be about 28% forward of the transom (the blunt end) and it's easier to achieve with the motor forward and the batteries behind (moving it forward will increase stability at the expense of performance).There was room inside for a standard servo, though a micro should be more than enough.
All the hardware, except the shaft coupler and propeller were scatch built from bits and pieces of scrap aluminium, brass tube and circuit boards. That bit is covered on the tips section of the Astec site.
The water based PU and glass tissue method should toughen up the hull without ading too much weight.
The photo is of my first attempt
The 10' referred to run time
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Old May 11, 2004, 06:51 PM
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What about useing a 15gram 60w converted cd rom motor? It would spin 27mm 2blade prop at around 60k out of the water and loaded .. useing 12 neo magnets 9T 22gage wye wound...you would have enough tork to run 40K in the water..useing kokam 340s should yeld a 3oz hydro....better would be 2cell pack of 830s.. good up to 9amps.. =) the kokams dont like anything over 5.5amps otherwise the run time drops bad..
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Old May 11, 2004, 10:17 PM
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cool but at 40 thou under load I think it would pull more than 9 amps??.
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Old May 11, 2004, 10:42 PM
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yes may need a 25mm prop .. I have some 25's and 27mm will see what they will draw in load.. im shooting for 8amps unloaded on step and 12amps peaks.. I have a small 12gram motor that puts out 45watts of power on 2cell packs of 830 lipoly cells.. If my outrigger weighs 3oz anymore power then that will just cuase it to fly off the water..im talking small 12inch outriggers.. I have used a gws 50 7.2v motor DD with a 3X3 prop and made a small 9in swap boat.. the boat went so fast it flew off the water. on two cell packs of kokam 340's .. the task at hand is a power to weight ratio far above the norm for electric boats of this size... for once the power is there .. its the boat that isnt..a design built to keep it in the water useing airflow will be key.
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Old May 12, 2004, 02:36 AM
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There's a bit of difference between 40k rpm in air and water. Cavitation would be a serious problem in a boat. You'd be better gearing it down to 20-25k or rewinding it for lower rpm.
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Old May 12, 2004, 08:46 PM
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martin I disagree,I use a mega acn16/15/2 on 8 cells & its hitting above 40 thou RPM.I use it in a 16" rigger.The boat is set up well & cavatation at top speed is almost non existant.
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Old May 13, 2004, 04:37 AM
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yea I think its possible to go 70mph with a hot wound 5T 20g Wye with 12 neo mags.
and keep the boat under 6oz. I fly high speed planes on these motors doing 80mph plus...typical weight is 5oz on 2S 1320''s yes water isss much better then air for the prop to grab .. need some small metal nano size props.. 2blade props say 1520 1425 1618
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Old May 13, 2004, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AIR MOVER
yea I think its possible to go 70mph with a hot wound 5T 20g Wye with 12 neo mags.
and keep the boat under 6oz. I fly high speed planes on these motors doing 80mph plus...typical weight is 5oz on 2S 1320''s yes water isss much better then air for the prop to grab .. need some small metal nano size props.. 2blade props say 1520 1425 1618

Have you thought what fun it might be trying to control a <12" boat at 70 mph?
Anyhing other than flat calm water, it's airborne or submerged more than on the water
PS I still think less rpm on a bigger prop might be easier than finding nano size props (the hub's going to be at least 50% of diameter)
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